Ferrari based self built chassis, Q plate?
Discussion
PAUL500 said:
Russ, when you could actually buy a new base spec 348 chassis it came as per my pic, therefore anything else is an addition and can subsequently also be removed, whatever method it was later fixed to the car.
In your example such as the Range Rover the additional non structural metal came as part of the new item from the factory so removing it modified the chassis.
Semantics I know but in the case of the Ferrari then the subsequent non structural metal is additional to the chassis not part of it.
When the chassis was made into a car and given an ID my betting is there was an upperstructure welded, and this is key, not bolted to chassis and therefore removing it mucks up ID.In your example such as the Range Rover the additional non structural metal came as part of the new item from the factory so removing it modified the chassis.
Semantics I know but in the case of the Ferrari then the subsequent non structural metal is additional to the chassis not part of it.
No, as I say if you could still find a brand new, base 348 chassis it would come as per the pic, you could legally transfer the VIN of the donor onto that chassis as it stands then build whatever you like after that, it would still be 348 Ferrari.
I do know of one though, but that has all the extra panels added to it.
I do know of one though, but that has all the extra panels added to it.
PAUL500 said:
No, as I say if you could still find a brand new, base 348 chassis it would come as per the pic, you could legally transfer the VIN of the donor onto that chassis as it stands then build whatever you like after that, it would still be 348 Ferrari.
I do know of one though, but that has all the extra panels added to it.
Putting aside DVLA aspect for a second. Are you honestly of the option that Ferrari designed the 348 Coupe, Targa and Convertible and thought you know what, any structure above the driver's shoulders will give no improvement to the chassis at all or even be classed as part of the chassis? Really? Tried to help you re this, but your choice ultimately on route you take.I do know of one though, but that has all the extra panels added to it.
Edited by SDB660 on Thursday 20th July 21:25
Yes that is exactly how Ferrari designed the chassis, why do you think that pic exists, it just shows purely the structural elements.
By the way I have two 355 Ferrari chassis (an evolution of the 348 one) in exactly that stripped back condition, which are in the process of having FIA spec roll cages added, so I do know what I am talking about
By the way I have two 355 Ferrari chassis (an evolution of the 348 one) in exactly that stripped back condition, which are in the process of having FIA spec roll cages added, so I do know what I am talking about
PAUL500 said:
Yes that is exactly how Ferrari designed the chassis, why do you think that pic exists, it just shows purely the structural elements.
By the way I have two 355 Ferrari chassis (an evolution of the 348 one) in exactly that stripped back condition, which are in the process of having FIA spec roll cages added, so I do know what I am talking about
Life is too short to argue. Good luck with your project and please let forum know how you get on at inspection stage.By the way I have two 355 Ferrari chassis (an evolution of the 348 one) in exactly that stripped back condition, which are in the process of having FIA spec roll cages added, so I do know what I am talking about
|https://thumbsnap.com/umckgdxr[/url]PAUL500 said:
No, as I say if you could still find a brand new, base 348 chassis it would come as per the pic, you could legally transfer the VIN of the donor onto that chassis as it stands then build whatever you like after that, it would still be 348 Ferrari.
I do know of one though, but that has all the extra panels added to it.
You can't transfer a VIN unless it is a direct replacement for the original, eg you have a car which has a major shunt, you buy a new bodyshell & transfer all the usable parts, it remains the same car on the V5 it always was & the chassis no. is transferable to the new shell. Anything else other than the above you can't transfer a VIN no., for instance if you bought a second hand undanaged shell then it should carry the VIN of that shell NOT the original, anything else is basically "ringing"I do know of one though, but that has all the extra panels added to it.
I also believe you will find that if you took the bare Ferrari chassis & WELDED, rather than bolted, anything more than a bracket or 2 to it, it would then require IVA
Given the likely value of the finished product & the sort of quality it would need to be built to to be worth decent money then, I don't really see why anyone would be particularly IVA averse?
Your example of the race cars has no bearing on this whatsoever, for a race car you need to satisfy Rac/MSA/FIA or whomsoever is responsible for the race series, registering a car for the road is a completely different kettle of fish (or should that be can of worms!)
Russ, bodyshops around the country are transferring VINS from damaged cars into brand new chassis everyday (both bare and with new closures, wings etc) often at the request of the insurance company, so the cars never appear on the hpi either. Never ever do the DVLA get informed of such, its been going on quite legally since the days of the model T Ford. My example you quote is the same principal, no IVA required.
The welding thing is your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves. Welded, glued, pop rivetted, bonded bolted its all the same.
I have probably reshelled more cars than anybody in this subforum, my race cars were just used as examples for the OP as he wanted to use a Ferrari as a base car. Mine can be road registered without an IVA, I have already checked it out, besides the world is slightly bigger than the UK and the DVLA.
So can my F3000 Reynard 88D full carbon fibre single seater! an actual real race car on the road, it will happen when I have the time.
I built a brand new 3dr Sierra Cosworth in 2000 from a new shell, no donor and all properly registered with the DVLA at the time, it would have gone on 51 plate but I had already purchased a private Y reg for it.
|https://thumbsnap.com/o8PPjyqv[/url]
The welding thing is your interpretation of the rules, not the rules themselves. Welded, glued, pop rivetted, bonded bolted its all the same.
I have probably reshelled more cars than anybody in this subforum, my race cars were just used as examples for the OP as he wanted to use a Ferrari as a base car. Mine can be road registered without an IVA, I have already checked it out, besides the world is slightly bigger than the UK and the DVLA.
So can my F3000 Reynard 88D full carbon fibre single seater!
an actual real race car on the road, it will happen when I have the time.I built a brand new 3dr Sierra Cosworth in 2000 from a new shell, no donor and all properly registered with the DVLA at the time, it would have gone on 51 plate but I had already purchased a private Y reg for it.
|https://thumbsnap.com/o8PPjyqv[/url]Edited by PAUL500 on Thursday 27th July 23:08
Life is too short to argue. Good luck with your project and please let forum know how you get on at inspection stage. - thanks to SDB660 for the quote & BTW you are wrong on so many scores I really can't be bothered to point out, but misleading people on a public forum really is not clever - I will not be responding further on this topic
RussBost said:
Life is too short to argue. Good luck with your project and please let forum know how you get on at inspection stage. - thanks to SDB660 for the quote & BTW you are wrong on so many scores I really can't be bothered to point out, but misleading people on a public forum really is not clever - I will not be responding further on this topic
Thank god for that! you are the one clearly misunderstanding the rules.Ok two scenarios for you to mull over.
Number 1 - A Group A works Rally car, shell radically altered, numerous panels removed and replaced by lightweight alternatives which are then bonded, not welded on.
According to you as a result of the above they have to then go through IVA before they can be road registered, and cannot be called the car they are derived from either, does that happen, no never ever! they are simply built, registered and then legally road rallied.
Number 2 - My cars, any radically altered car, or any kit car for that matter- all built abroad, are over 10 years then imported into the UK, do they require an IVA, no, never ever, just a simple MOT and you are good to go.
I rest my case.
If you choose to question me then simply answer my two scenarios above rather than being vague as usual, this "bloke" has walked the walk many times, what have you actually done?
Here is another one for you.
Treaded race tyres marked "Not for highway use" on the sidewalls. Will a car fitted with such pass an MOT if they have the required min tread depth and width and are they legal to use on the road?
A senior VOSA inspector has confirmed in writing to me the answer, what is yours?
Here is another one for you.
Treaded race tyres marked "Not for highway use" on the sidewalls. Will a car fitted with such pass an MOT if they have the required min tread depth and width and are they legal to use on the road?
A senior VOSA inspector has confirmed in writing to me the answer, what is yours?
Edited by PAUL500 on Thursday 27th July 23:01
PAUL500 said:
If you choose to question me then simply answer my two scenarios above rather than being vague as usual, this "bloke" has walked the walk many times, what have you actually done?
Here is another one for you.
Treaded race tyres marked "Not for highway use" on the sidewalls. Will a car fitted with such pass an MOT if they have the required min tread depth and width and are they legal to use on the road?
A senior VOSA inspector has confirmed in writing to me the answer, what is yours?
(Yawn)Here is another one for you.
Treaded race tyres marked "Not for highway use" on the sidewalls. Will a car fitted with such pass an MOT if they have the required min tread depth and width and are they legal to use on the road?
A senior VOSA inspector has confirmed in writing to me the answer, what is yours?
Edited by PAUL500 on Thursday 27th July 23:01
PAUL500 said:
Great constructive reply......I think the readers can draw their own conclusions as to your knowledge and abilities.
Yep. You are correct. I know d**k about getting cars legally on the roads in UK... Having probably once every couple of months turned down projects that are follies, getting a disclaimer from people that think they know better or sending an email to say there may be issues.Fourteen cars and mods to cars designed so far and many thousands of parts.
Mitchell Special MK2. Warning from history and one of my first projects. Dobbed in to DVLA and if you look online reg had to change. Luckily enough for him had a new chassis so options to solve.
ASM motorsport. Do it all correct to DVLA rules. Great firm. Helped redesign car for them to be really correct.
New car I am designing at moment. Well aware of rules re IP and DVLA.
What irritates me is that your average client will not be up to speed on DVLA rules, yet experts such as restorers, auction houses, marque specialists etc and so on on take a chunk of money from these people when the cars are up s**t creek. What happened to duty of care?
Edited by SDB660 on Sunday 30th July 20:25
Would also say that Rods N Sods forum licensing area is epicentre of good advice. Spend time checking out old and new posts. Will serve you well.
http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/licensing-legal-s...
http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/licensing-legal-s...
Could you say that all again in English, as you lost me at the first sentence.
Oh and how about answering my three scenario/questions?
Here is another little taster pic in the meantime.....As Rolf used to say before he went the way of Jimmy Saville! "Do ya know what it is yet?"
Oh and how about answering my three scenario/questions?
Here is another little taster pic in the meantime.....As Rolf used to say before he went the way of Jimmy Saville! "Do ya know what it is yet?"
Edited by PAUL500 on Monday 31st July 22:37
PAUL500 said:
Could you say that all again in English, as you lost me at the first sentence.
Oh and how about answering my three scenario/questions?
Here is another little taster pic in the meantime.....As Rolf used to say before he went the way of Jimmy Saville! "Do ya know what it is yet?"
If you were lost at the first sentence. Here is some help.Oh and how about answering my three scenario/questions?
Here is another little taster pic in the meantime.....As Rolf used to say before he went the way of Jimmy Saville! "Do ya know what it is yet?"
Edited by PAUL500 on Monday 31st July 22:37
'Yep' - https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/yep
The matter is closed. There is enough information on this thread for anyone reading it to do things properly.
Having arguments re questions you have raised does not really help the OP. If you want to answer them, then go for it.
It may be closed for you are you cannot answer the questions, however they still remain.
As I told you before, I am not arguing, I have provided first hand information, you are the one who came on disputing such, but without any supporting evidence, other than a failed kitcar project you say you did and a rendering of some obscure car, and claims of involvement with other peoples work.
If you actually read Rods and Sods rather than just reference it, you will see that the general consensus is no one on there has any real definitive answer, all such amateur builds are simply judged case by case on their merits by the DVLA.
In those cases, speak with DVLA one day and they will say one thing, speak to another advisor another day and that one will tell you something else.
Work to the letter of the regulations however, present your documented case in a professional manner and what I have stated will be accepted by them.
As I told you before, I am not arguing, I have provided first hand information, you are the one who came on disputing such, but without any supporting evidence, other than a failed kitcar project you say you did and a rendering of some obscure car, and claims of involvement with other peoples work.
If you actually read Rods and Sods rather than just reference it, you will see that the general consensus is no one on there has any real definitive answer, all such amateur builds are simply judged case by case on their merits by the DVLA.
In those cases, speak with DVLA one day and they will say one thing, speak to another advisor another day and that one will tell you something else.
Work to the letter of the regulations however, present your documented case in a professional manner and what I have stated will be accepted by them.
Edited by PAUL500 on Tuesday 1st August 09:01
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