Seven type things ?
Discussion
GinG15 said:
if you want a kind of "oldschool" seven-ish car (oldschool engine), but with suberb handling:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SYLVA-STRIKER-1700-CROSS...
IMO 1k overpriced, but its a nice car.
so you see,, you can get soemthing good for not much money.
compared to this car, even the best Robin Hood should not cost more than 800pound!!!
Yeah, saw that one, looks ok, will be a little while as need to get the extension done as wont have anywhere to put it until then, plus it depends on the financial side of that how much I would be able to spend, the wife seems ok with it, think she gets the fact that they are a fairly place to put money, not an investment but better then spending say 17 grand on a daily that will depreciate, she has seen with my 944 Cab and 350Z Roadster that certain cars you can own for a while and not lose anything.http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SYLVA-STRIKER-1700-CROSS...
IMO 1k overpriced, but its a nice car.
so you see,, you can get soemthing good for not much money.
compared to this car, even the best Robin Hood should not cost more than 800pound!!!
Asked my neighbour who is into them and he echoed the advice on here, his is a 260 bhp Vauxhall Redtop, straight cut gearbox, LSD etc, not selling at the moment but said to ask me if he did think of moving it on, probably a bit too much car for me really.
Am forming a list of engines and their relative pros and cons,
Kent/Crossflow, 1.3 possibly a bit feeble, 1.6 better, 120 bhp about your lot, been around since the dawn of time, would do the trick but possibly end up wanting to swap it out.
Pinto, old and heavy, gets the job done, 1.6 a bit lame, 2.0 worth having, tunable but 160 bhp is your lot without going silly
Zetec, better than a Pinto, though not as good as a Duratec
Vauxhall XE Redtop - very tunable but expensive to buy and tune.
Rover K series, nice and light, can make good power but expensive to tune and can be problematic, but probably less so in a light kit car ?
Bike engines, crap low down torque, immense revs, very, very fast but more suited to track work really, enforce quite a few compromises though varies between different engines, can be a little fragile.
Rover V8, power wise, 300 plus can be available, loads of torque, not that heavy, similar to a Pinto weight wise, maybe lighter, slightly at odds with traditional the seven ethos.
Cosworth YB turbo, 204 bhp out of the box, skys the limit, but probably overkill and a bit terrifying for a noob like me
S2000 - 240 bhp or more from the box, relative dearth of torque not a problem in a light car, fairly heavy engine but power delivery totally suited to a seven type car and puts it on par with the higher end Caterhams.
Mazda MX5, good option as a sports car engine anyway, ends up like it is in an MX5 only more so due to less weight, tough as old boots, can be relatively cheaply turbocharged, replacements still cheap.
Am interested to get an idea how they feel, my Merc CLS moves pretty well, it is 210 bhp per tonne or thereabouts, got me to thinking, even a fairly low powered seven is easily over that figure, will probably avoid bike engined ones and V8s, mainy due to expensive, but everything else is fair game and a lot depends on the car it sits in, the Locost thing is great but seen some shonky looking welding.
Kent/Crossflow, 1.3 possibly a bit feeble, 1.6 better, 120 bhp about your lot, been around since the dawn of time, would do the trick but possibly end up wanting to swap it out.
Pinto, old and heavy, gets the job done, 1.6 a bit lame, 2.0 worth having, tunable but 160 bhp is your lot without going silly
Zetec, better than a Pinto, though not as good as a Duratec
Vauxhall XE Redtop - very tunable but expensive to buy and tune.
Rover K series, nice and light, can make good power but expensive to tune and can be problematic, but probably less so in a light kit car ?
Bike engines, crap low down torque, immense revs, very, very fast but more suited to track work really, enforce quite a few compromises though varies between different engines, can be a little fragile.
Rover V8, power wise, 300 plus can be available, loads of torque, not that heavy, similar to a Pinto weight wise, maybe lighter, slightly at odds with traditional the seven ethos.
Cosworth YB turbo, 204 bhp out of the box, skys the limit, but probably overkill and a bit terrifying for a noob like me
S2000 - 240 bhp or more from the box, relative dearth of torque not a problem in a light car, fairly heavy engine but power delivery totally suited to a seven type car and puts it on par with the higher end Caterhams.
Mazda MX5, good option as a sports car engine anyway, ends up like it is in an MX5 only more so due to less weight, tough as old boots, can be relatively cheaply turbocharged, replacements still cheap.
Am interested to get an idea how they feel, my Merc CLS moves pretty well, it is 210 bhp per tonne or thereabouts, got me to thinking, even a fairly low powered seven is easily over that figure, will probably avoid bike engined ones and V8s, mainy due to expensive, but everything else is fair game and a lot depends on the car it sits in, the Locost thing is great but seen some shonky looking welding.
J4CKO said:
Bike engines, crap low down torque, immense revs, very, very fast but more suited to track work really, enforce quite a few compromises though varies between different engines, can be a little fragile.
Main issue is off the line, outside of that, bat out of hell. Need to choose the right engine though, packaging can be a pig.J4CKO said:
Cosworth YB turbo, 204 bhp out of the box, skys the limit, but probably overkill and a bit terrifying for a noob like me
Heavy and expensive, basically a pinto bottom end, with 16v head + turbo.J4CKO said:
S2000 - 240 bhp or more from the box, relative dearth of torque not a problem in a light car, fairly heavy engine but power delivery totally suited to a seven type car and puts it on par with the higher end Caterhams.
Very tall engine, won't fit under a 7 bonnet without mods, expensive as well.annodomini2 said:
Very tall engine, won't fit under a 7 bonnet without mods, expensive as well.
Ahem: https://westfield-sportscars.co.uk/showroom-brochu...Also, the OP is looking at buying a complete car, not building one.
Bike engined cars don't all have reverse. Not all like having the engine permanently upright (unlike a bike which canters over come corners). Seem more of a track engine.
I have a Caterham K Series. 1999. Bought for under 12K back in 2008. Not sure how they are valved these days. The heads gone once like all original engines do with their plastic dowels. But once rebuilt and upgraded, a well regarded engine. Great power to weight, used in the original Lotus Elise and Atom (?) also, but an elder engine now.
New Caterham's are Duratec's, and this engine seems to appear in other 7's.
A lot of home built cars can vary in the quality of the manufacturer and fit. Some manufacturers are better than others. Caterham for example supply everything to you to be assembled as a kit, or direct from the factory. I believe Westfield are mostly direct from the factory (?) also.
Some cars have the option of a roof and a boot for weekends away, others only offer an aeroscreen (exposed) and no storage space, but this one is down to the type of use.
I have a Caterham K Series. 1999. Bought for under 12K back in 2008. Not sure how they are valved these days. The heads gone once like all original engines do with their plastic dowels. But once rebuilt and upgraded, a well regarded engine. Great power to weight, used in the original Lotus Elise and Atom (?) also, but an elder engine now.
New Caterham's are Duratec's, and this engine seems to appear in other 7's.
A lot of home built cars can vary in the quality of the manufacturer and fit. Some manufacturers are better than others. Caterham for example supply everything to you to be assembled as a kit, or direct from the factory. I believe Westfield are mostly direct from the factory (?) also.
Some cars have the option of a roof and a boot for weekends away, others only offer an aeroscreen (exposed) and no storage space, but this one is down to the type of use.
K series - nice and light - get the 1800cc - limit your revs to 7200RPM - reliable when well built and regularly serviced/oil changed etc.
Zetec - cheap as chips - very reliable - similar weight to X Flow - 240BHP relatively easily from 2 litre.- My choice - IMO you only need 160BHP in any 7, so a standard 2 litre on throttle bodies and ECU get you this as standard.
Duratec - Biggish engine - by the time you add accesories to fit a 7 only marginally lighter than zetec - Has the exhaust on drivers side which may foul on steering colmn or master cylinders etc. MUCH more expensive than either k Series or Zetec.to fit into a 7 - 300BHP possible more with turbo or supercharger.
Vauxhall XE - tall and HEAVY engine, was a standard caterham fitment so all parts probably available 2nd hand - expensive to tune.
>
Bike engines not for me - no reverse gear - expensive to fit in a 7.
X flow - good as a boat anchor - now well past sell by date - has character on Webers but fuel consumption ridiculous -21mpg is normal.
Lotus TC - nice looking engine - fit Throttle bodies and ECU - 160BHP easily available - parts now Very expensive.
Zetec - cheap as chips - very reliable - similar weight to X Flow - 240BHP relatively easily from 2 litre.- My choice - IMO you only need 160BHP in any 7, so a standard 2 litre on throttle bodies and ECU get you this as standard.
Duratec - Biggish engine - by the time you add accesories to fit a 7 only marginally lighter than zetec - Has the exhaust on drivers side which may foul on steering colmn or master cylinders etc. MUCH more expensive than either k Series or Zetec.to fit into a 7 - 300BHP possible more with turbo or supercharger.
Vauxhall XE - tall and HEAVY engine, was a standard caterham fitment so all parts probably available 2nd hand - expensive to tune.
>
Bike engines not for me - no reverse gear - expensive to fit in a 7.
X flow - good as a boat anchor - now well past sell by date - has character on Webers but fuel consumption ridiculous -21mpg is normal.
Lotus TC - nice looking engine - fit Throttle bodies and ECU - 160BHP easily available - parts now Very expensive.
Edited by rene7 on Thursday 20th July 16:01
Don't forget the Toyota 4age that crops up in quite a few Strikers-
http://www.striker-cars.co.uk/172-2/toyota-4age-en...
http://www.striker-cars.co.uk/172-2/toyota-4age-en...
Toltec said:
Don't forget the Toyota 4age that crops up in quite a few Strikers-
http://www.striker-cars.co.uk/172-2/toyota-4age-en...
...and I've seen a few of the Fiat 'Lampredi'(?) engines too.http://www.striker-cars.co.uk/172-2/toyota-4age-en...
I bottled it and am 95% buying another VX220 tomorrow.
CrutyRammers said:
annodomini2 said:
Very tall engine, won't fit under a 7 bonnet without mods, expensive as well.
Ahem: https://westfield-sportscars.co.uk/showroom-brochu...Also, the OP is looking at buying a complete car, not building one.
I have read with interest all the posts in this thread, it is clear some know more than others it's about separating out the chaff from the wheat.
I built a Robin Hood S3 monocoque and did a lot of modifications to get it where I wanted it.
I have recently bought a Fisher Fury as a restoration project.
I can talk with authority about he Pinto having built a few...
130bhp to 150bhp is easy and it produces a torquey flexible street engine.
I have also built a 180+bhp engine that pulls hard to 8k but only after 31/2k revs.
A point raised very early in the thread was "windscreen or not?"
I built without, then fitted a screen and finally side screens, so much better than no screen and a lid IMHO.
I built a Robin Hood S3 monocoque and did a lot of modifications to get it where I wanted it.
I have recently bought a Fisher Fury as a restoration project.
I can talk with authority about he Pinto having built a few...
130bhp to 150bhp is easy and it produces a torquey flexible street engine.
I have also built a 180+bhp engine that pulls hard to 8k but only after 31/2k revs.
A point raised very early in the thread was "windscreen or not?"
I built without, then fitted a screen and finally side screens, so much better than no screen and a lid IMHO.
rene7 said:
K series - nice and light - get the 1800cc - limit your revs to 7200RPM - reliable when well built and regularly serviced/oil changed etc.
Zetec - cheap as chips - very reliable - similar weight to X Flow - 240BHP relatively easily from 2 litre.- My choice - IMO you only need 160BHP in any 7, so a standard 2 litre on throttle bodies and ECU get you this as standard.
Duratec - Biggish engine - by the time you add accesories to fit a 7 only marginally lighter than zetec - Has the exhaust on drivers side which may foul on steering colmn or master cylinders etc. MUCH more expensive than either k Series or Zetec.to fit into a 7 - 300BHP possible more with turbo or supercharger.
Vauxhall XE - tall and HEAVY engine, was a standard caterham fitment so all parts probably available 2nd hand - expensive to tune.
>
Bike engines not for me - no reverse gear - expensive to fit in a 7.
X flow - good as a boat anchor - now well past sell by date - has character on Webers but fuel consumption ridiculous -21mpg is normal.
Lotus TC - nice looking engine - fit Throttle bodies and ECU - 160BHP easily available - parts now Very expensive.
Did you mean X flow, or Pinto as boat anchor? The rest fits both - past sell-by, character and (I would guess) fuel cons.Zetec - cheap as chips - very reliable - similar weight to X Flow - 240BHP relatively easily from 2 litre.- My choice - IMO you only need 160BHP in any 7, so a standard 2 litre on throttle bodies and ECU get you this as standard.
Duratec - Biggish engine - by the time you add accesories to fit a 7 only marginally lighter than zetec - Has the exhaust on drivers side which may foul on steering colmn or master cylinders etc. MUCH more expensive than either k Series or Zetec.to fit into a 7 - 300BHP possible more with turbo or supercharger.
Vauxhall XE - tall and HEAVY engine, was a standard caterham fitment so all parts probably available 2nd hand - expensive to tune.
>
Bike engines not for me - no reverse gear - expensive to fit in a 7.
X flow - good as a boat anchor - now well past sell by date - has character on Webers but fuel consumption ridiculous -21mpg is normal.
Lotus TC - nice looking engine - fit Throttle bodies and ECU - 160BHP easily available - parts now Very expensive.
Edited by rene7 on Thursday 20th July 16:01
Further to my someday, sometime plan to build a Mazda based Westfield would be, after a couple of years (maybe), to replace the MX5 engine with a rotary - probably from an RX8.
Not sure why more people don't use these in Sevens (or Furies), it seems like an ideal choice - lots of power, low weight, etc.
I think the rotaries were, for years, comparatively rare, so everyone stuck with fords and the like because there were so many of them. Hence it's harder to do, so you need to be willing to strike out on your own in order to do it...it's a vicious circle. I did look into it myself, and it has been done a couple of times. But at the time, they were still fairly rare and no-where near as cheap as they are now.
I'd agree that it does, on paper at least, seem a very good choice for this kind of car, if you're willing to do the development work of actually getting it to fit and work.
I'd agree that it does, on paper at least, seem a very good choice for this kind of car, if you're willing to do the development work of actually getting it to fit and work.
I think you covered most of the engines available but just one more to add to the list. Also agree that I think the sweet spot for a seven as around 175hp with as light an engine/box as you can find -
Ford Sigma/Zetec SE - All alloy, similar weight (if not a little lighter) than the K Series i.e. very light and small, 16v, comes in 1.25, 1.4 and 1,.6l (From the fiesta, focus, puma) plus 1.7l with VCT (from the Puma). 1.6 is probably the easiest to fit and has a lot of potential as it has a standard size spigot bearing cavity in the crank (1.7 does not and needs mods). All need a bell housing for a type 9 (Non standrs ford bell housing pattern) or there are adaptors about for the RX8 5/6 speed boxes (these are the ones to use not Mazda MX5 as the input shaft is the same as Ford but will need a Pinto clutch plate). Keeping everything standard but add bike throttle bodies, ecu and exhaust the 1.6 will make 145hp and the 1.7 155hp. Add a cam, HD valve springs and HD rod bolts and you can rev over 8k and the 1.6 will put out the magical 175hp. This is a stock fitment in Caterham and Westfields.
That said, value for money you can't beat a 2.0l stock Zetec on Throttle bodies pushing out around 165hp (giving around 300hp/ton) and loads of torque, add a close ratio/long first type 9 an off you go. The best thing is that if the engine goes bang then it is a £100 bill from the scrap yard/ebay, a weekend of your time and you are up an running again,.
Ford Sigma/Zetec SE - All alloy, similar weight (if not a little lighter) than the K Series i.e. very light and small, 16v, comes in 1.25, 1.4 and 1,.6l (From the fiesta, focus, puma) plus 1.7l with VCT (from the Puma). 1.6 is probably the easiest to fit and has a lot of potential as it has a standard size spigot bearing cavity in the crank (1.7 does not and needs mods). All need a bell housing for a type 9 (Non standrs ford bell housing pattern) or there are adaptors about for the RX8 5/6 speed boxes (these are the ones to use not Mazda MX5 as the input shaft is the same as Ford but will need a Pinto clutch plate). Keeping everything standard but add bike throttle bodies, ecu and exhaust the 1.6 will make 145hp and the 1.7 155hp. Add a cam, HD valve springs and HD rod bolts and you can rev over 8k and the 1.6 will put out the magical 175hp. This is a stock fitment in Caterham and Westfields.
That said, value for money you can't beat a 2.0l stock Zetec on Throttle bodies pushing out around 165hp (giving around 300hp/ton) and loads of torque, add a close ratio/long first type 9 an off you go. The best thing is that if the engine goes bang then it is a £100 bill from the scrap yard/ebay, a weekend of your time and you are up an running again,.
Frankthered
Of course you are correct Pinto & X flow are both Boat anchors in 7's - I omitted the pinto from the thread coz it's not an option on Lotus or Caterham 7's.
I had a webered Pinto in my Dutton for part of my 24 years of ownershio - as you said it's a gutsy engine, but at 21 MPG I swopped it out for a standard Zetec on Plenum and standard ECU - WOW what a transformation - The pinto was the last engine i drove on carbs. I've been a convert ever since - Oh and the Dutton with the 2 litre zetec did over 40MPG without a hiccup - SORTED
Of course you are correct Pinto & X flow are both Boat anchors in 7's - I omitted the pinto from the thread coz it's not an option on Lotus or Caterham 7's.
I had a webered Pinto in my Dutton for part of my 24 years of ownershio - as you said it's a gutsy engine, but at 21 MPG I swopped it out for a standard Zetec on Plenum and standard ECU - WOW what a transformation - The pinto was the last engine i drove on carbs. I've been a convert ever since - Oh and the Dutton with the 2 litre zetec did over 40MPG without a hiccup - SORTED
Mr MXT said:
J4CKO said:
There is a Saab B204 engined seven alike on Ebay at the moment, I had a Saab 9-3 with a similar unit and it was great, not sure if it would suit a seven but I bet its rapid.
If its the F27, im not sure "250 - 270bhp" is a good idea to pop your seven cherry with...J4CKO said:
Am forming a list of engines and their relative pros and cons,
Kent/Crossflow, 1.3 possibly a bit feeble, 1.6 better, 120 bhp about your lot, been around since the dawn of time, would do the trick but possibly end up wanting to swap it out.
Pinto, old and heavy, gets the job done, 1.6 a bit lame, 2.0 worth having, tunable but 160 bhp is your lot without going silly
Zetec, better than a Pinto, though not as good as a Duratec
Vauxhall XE Redtop - very tunable but expensive to buy and tune.
Rover K series, nice and light, can make good power but expensive to tune and can be problematic, but probably less so in a light kit car ?
Bike engines, crap low down torque, immense revs, very, very fast but more suited to track work really, enforce quite a few compromises though varies between different engines, can be a little fragile.
Rover V8, power wise, 300 plus can be available, loads of torque, not that heavy, similar to a Pinto weight wise, maybe lighter, slightly at odds with traditional the seven ethos.
Cosworth YB turbo, 204 bhp out of the box, skys the limit, but probably overkill and a bit terrifying for a noob like me
S2000 - 240 bhp or more from the box, relative dearth of torque not a problem in a light car, fairly heavy engine but power delivery totally suited to a seven type car and puts it on par with the higher end Caterhams.
Mazda MX5, good option as a sports car engine anyway, ends up like it is in an MX5 only more so due to less weight, tough as old boots, can be relatively cheaply turbocharged, replacements still cheap.
Am interested to get an idea how they feel, my Merc CLS moves pretty well, it is 210 bhp per tonne or thereabouts, got me to thinking, even a fairly low powered seven is easily over that figure, will probably avoid bike engined ones and V8s, mainy due to expensive, but everything else is fair game and a lot depends on the car it sits in, the Locost thing is great but seen some shonky looking welding.
Don't forget the Fiat/Lancia Lampredi twin-camKent/Crossflow, 1.3 possibly a bit feeble, 1.6 better, 120 bhp about your lot, been around since the dawn of time, would do the trick but possibly end up wanting to swap it out.
Pinto, old and heavy, gets the job done, 1.6 a bit lame, 2.0 worth having, tunable but 160 bhp is your lot without going silly
Zetec, better than a Pinto, though not as good as a Duratec
Vauxhall XE Redtop - very tunable but expensive to buy and tune.
Rover K series, nice and light, can make good power but expensive to tune and can be problematic, but probably less so in a light kit car ?
Bike engines, crap low down torque, immense revs, very, very fast but more suited to track work really, enforce quite a few compromises though varies between different engines, can be a little fragile.
Rover V8, power wise, 300 plus can be available, loads of torque, not that heavy, similar to a Pinto weight wise, maybe lighter, slightly at odds with traditional the seven ethos.
Cosworth YB turbo, 204 bhp out of the box, skys the limit, but probably overkill and a bit terrifying for a noob like me
S2000 - 240 bhp or more from the box, relative dearth of torque not a problem in a light car, fairly heavy engine but power delivery totally suited to a seven type car and puts it on par with the higher end Caterhams.
Mazda MX5, good option as a sports car engine anyway, ends up like it is in an MX5 only more so due to less weight, tough as old boots, can be relatively cheaply turbocharged, replacements still cheap.
Am interested to get an idea how they feel, my Merc CLS moves pretty well, it is 210 bhp per tonne or thereabouts, got me to thinking, even a fairly low powered seven is easily over that figure, will probably avoid bike engined ones and V8s, mainy due to expensive, but everything else is fair game and a lot depends on the car it sits in, the Locost thing is great but seen some shonky looking welding.
Loads more character than a Zetec, and more power than a X-flow. To my (admittedly biased) ears it sounds better than either
J4CKO said:
There is a Saab B204 engined seven alike on Ebay at the moment, I had a Saab 9-3 with a similar unit and it was great, not sure if it would suit a seven but I bet its rapid.
Yes, they are lots of fun in a seven, a friend had one in his Haynes roadster, which was then rebodied with the Thruxton body. Connects straight up to an Omega gearbox, he did have to do quite a bit of work to the sump to stop oil starvation under acceleration though. Ended up with a GT2854r on it which upped the power, but was still very responsive and easy to use.annodomini2 said:
CrutyRammers said:
annodomini2 said:
Very tall engine, won't fit under a 7 bonnet without mods, expensive as well.
Ahem: https://westfield-sportscars.co.uk/showroom-brochu...Also, the OP is looking at buying a complete car, not building one.
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