Zetec SE 1.4 - what gearbox? Tuning?

Zetec SE 1.4 - what gearbox? Tuning?

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Flat-6

Original Poster:

2,251 posts

106 months

Saturday 9th December 2017
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Hi all, ive just picked up a new-old-stock Zetec SE 1.4 (ZSG414) that I intend to wedge into an MG Midget.

The first thing is gearboxes, what will fit? I can see that a Ford type-9 + special bellhousing will work but that's a good £400 all in, for an old box.
I've been seeing talk of MX5 boxes fitting, can anyone shed any light on that?

Also, I want this to be a fun road and track car, it should give about 80bhp stock which is "ok" but what can be done wo ring more power out without breaking the bank? Cams? Bike carbs? Webers?

downsman

1,049 posts

92 months

Sunday 10th December 2017
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Caterham are currently fitting the Mazda MX5 box to their Zetec SE models. However, I hear it is a very tight fit in the transmission tunnel compared to the previous Type 9 box, so you'd better check how much room you have.

Rather than tuning the 1.4, you might be better of picking up a larger capacity Zetec, I have a 1.7 Puma engine that I got for only £150 and that has 125bhp as standard.

ugg10

681 posts

153 months

Sunday 10th December 2017
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There are adapters for the rx8 boxes, these hove the same input shaft as the ford clutch so easier than the mx5 to fit but the are slightly larger than the type 9.

If you go down the type 9 route then I have a bell housing for the Zetec se if you are interested.

As above the 1.6 is the engine to go for imo. All se’s have the same block so no difference in size. The 1.25, 1.4 and 1.6 have standard Ford spigot bearing cavities (22mm iirc), the 1.7 has a different (smaller size) and has the vct to control. 1.6 on bike carbs will make up to 145hp with no internal mods, search Chester sports cars for info. There is a long build thread on putting one of these in a spitfire if you search.

Type 9 may be your only choice if you do not want to do chassis mods and then I am not sure it will fit.

Flat-6

Original Poster:

2,251 posts

106 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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Thanks guys, ok so after a little more research, its either the Type9 or the RX8 on a 1.6 Zetec SE.

Tell me more about the bellhousing Ugg - where are you based? how many beer tokens do you require to let go? :-)

Equus

4,759 posts

37 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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The RX8 box is basically the MX5 NC 6-speed (with a different casting for the bellhousing),

It is huge, and very heavy, even compared to the MX5 NC 5-speed that others use. I'd be surprised if it fitted into a Midget without substantial surgery - certainly, if the 5-speed won't fit, then the 6-speed definitely won't.
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Flat-6

Original Poster:

2,251 posts

106 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
quotequote all
Actually I was looking at the 5-speed, as i really dont need 6 for what im doing.

So are they a lot heavier than the cast Type 9?

ugg10

681 posts

153 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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Agree wih Equis, the 6 speed is 10kg heavier than the type 9, but they are not that much bigger, enough if you have a tight tunnel.





For info the base gearbox for 6 speed is an aisin az6, found in mx5 mk3, rx8, is200, 200sx s15 and brz/gt86. It is not found in the s2000 which some say it is, this has a reduction gear in the tail, totally different.

The bell housing is all alloy and bought from shawspeed and has not been used, cost £300. Pictures below. Looking for £200, I am near Brighton but travel fairly regularly to Farnborough and Bristol if that helps. Can post at cost. Note, dies not come with the arm in the picture, hoping to use this with my rx8 6 speed.





Here it is bolted to my 1.7 puma zetec se engine to do a trial fit before I decided to go rx8 (block the same externally as the 1.25, 1.4 and 1.6).



Edited by ugg10 on Thursday 14th December 18:58

ugg10

681 posts

153 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
quotequote all
Agree wih Equis, the 6 speed is 10kg heavier than the type 9, but they are not that much bigger, enough if you have a tight tunnel.



img]https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8081/29291087555_6aa007593d_z.jpg[/img]

For info the base gearbox for 6 speed is an aisin az6, found in mx5 mk3, rx8, is200, 200sx s15 and brz/gt86. It is not found in the s2000 which some say it is, this has a reduction gear in the tail, totally different.

The bell housing is all alloy and bought from shawspeed and has not been used, cost £300. Pictures below. Looking for £200, I am near Brighton but travel fairly regularly to Farnborough and Bristol if that helps. Can post at cost.








Flat-6

Original Poster:

2,251 posts

106 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
quotequote all
Thanks ugg - if indeed that is your real name.... !

OK 10kg is quite a lump, considering ive saved that by going with an alloy block instead of steel.

I'll let you know about the bellhousing, as I'm still weighing up my options.

Another option is to go with an MX5 complete engine and box....

spyder dryver

1,170 posts

152 months

Thursday 14th December 2017
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Viewed from a different angle...


Flat-6

Original Poster:

2,251 posts

106 months

Monday 18th December 2017
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OK, so having stood scratching my head (and other bits) in the shed most of yesterday, I've decided to change plans a bit.

My plan now is to get an ST170 engine, and mate that to an RX8 5-speed box via a matching plate.

Why? Power and cost.

Power will be about double with throttle bodies and cams, cost will be about half.

Oh and bonus, I can use the flywheel off the 1.6 to replace the dual mass thing on the ST170 and fit a mondeo clutch plate to mate to the input shaft of the RX8 box.

I think.

Edited by Flat-6 on Monday 18th December 10:01

TheAlastair34

144 posts

64 months

Wednesday 20th December 2017
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dont forget the st170 is a vct engine so you will need a ecu that controls that if you go aftermarket

there was a guy on the locost forum that could remove the pats system from the oe ecu, if so id ook at getting the oe ecu and loom

dai1983

1,607 posts

85 months

Thursday 21st December 2017
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If you’re going 2.0 with cams and ITBs then just get a Duratec. It’s all alloy unlike the st170 “Duratec” and doesn’t have VCT to mess about with. There’s also a 2.3 version found in the Mazda 6 that has VCT but 166bhp as standard. Think they mate to the rx8/mx box too.

Equus

4,759 posts

37 months

Thursday 21st December 2017
quotequote all
dai1983 said:
Think they mate to the rx8/mx box too.
They mate to the MX5 NC box (the NC MX5 basically uses a Ford Duratec anyway). The RX8 is a different bellhousing AFAIK.

The Duratec is a very tall engine though - I'd be astonished if it fitted under the bonnet of a Midget, without the most monstrous bulge.

Flat-6

Original Poster:

2,251 posts

106 months

Thursday 21st December 2017
quotequote all
I have a monstrous bulge just thinking about this.

Flat-6

Original Poster:

2,251 posts

106 months

Thursday 21st December 2017
quotequote all
dai1983 said:
If you’re going 2.0 with cams and ITBs then just get a Duratec. It’s all alloy unlike the st170 “Duratec” and doesn’t have VCT to mess about with. There’s also a 2.3 version found in the Mazda 6 that has VCT but 166bhp as standard. Think they mate to the rx8/mx box too.
Too late! Already got an st170.

Anyone want a free standard st170 gearbox??!!