Windscreen vs aeroscreen on a kit car

Windscreen vs aeroscreen on a kit car

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Discussion

Jukebag

Original Poster:

806 posts

75 months

Monday 29th January
quotequote all
At the moment I'm trying to sell (have been for about 7 months) a self built Tiger Cat. Despite a few enquiries I've no luck in selling it or even anyone to viewing it. I suspect some will say I'm asking too much for it. The car dosent have a full windscreen only an aeroscreen, and no wipers and wiper motor and no hood either. Would having no windscreen put people off?. I've seen a few similar cars with just aeroscreens, one a Caterham that had no problems being sold to a dealer (for about 40 grand). I suppose it depends what you want the car for. It was my dads car and he always insisted he didn't need an hood or windscreen (according to him, there was no room for a wiper motor under the bonnet because the engine that most of the room up) and felt there are enough Tigers, Robin Hoods etc that don't have any. The CSR is just sitting there doing nothing with just a car cover it, and I've no use for it.

Edited by Jukebag on Monday 29th January 11:53

annodomini2

5,688 posts

187 months

Monday 29th January
quotequote all
Give you a packet of Hob nobs for it? wink

Issues:
1. People are very selective over kit cars, either it has exactly what they want or if it doesn't they'd either look for another one or build their own kit.
2. Wrong time of year to sell, best time is end of March to start of May.
3. Aeroscreen will put some off, i.e. having to wear full face helmet every time you drive the thing.
4. Colour is also very important.
5. Quality of the build will also come into question, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with yours (I haven't seen it), but some will want a factory built car.
6. Kit cars are a small market, it's not a shopping hatch.
7. This is where price comes into it, either sell it cheap if you want a quick sale, or wait for your asking price, but you may be waiting a very long time.

Jukebag

Original Poster:

806 posts

75 months

Monday 29th January
quotequote all
annodomini2 said:
Give you a packet of Hob nobs for it? wink

Issues:
1. People are very selective over kit cars, either it has exactly what they want or if it doesn't they'd either look for another one or build their own kit.
2. Wrong time of year to sell, best time is end of March to start of May.
3. Aeroscreen will put some off, i.e. having to wear full face helmet every time you drive the thing.
4. Colour is also very important.
5. Quality of the build will also come into question, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with yours (I haven't seen it), but some will want a factory built car.
6. Kit cars are a small market, it's not a shopping hatch.
7. This is where price comes into it, either sell it cheap if you want a quick sale, or wait for your asking price, but you may be waiting a very long time.
Thanks for the points there.

I do agree people can be choosey over build quality and if it's factory made, but considering the ad will state "self built" rather than factory built, then it's obviously not what they're looking for if you only want a factory built car.

Colour, well the car is as black as Darth Vader. I suspect most want those gawdy green, yellow and orange colours that are common on Caterham type kit cars.

I agree a windscreen is preferred, but the issue of wind in your face has never been a serious issue without an helmet. And I agree it isn't a shopping trolley car, but the same can be said for Caterhams, Lotus 7s etc that people seem to pay silly money for, and yes I know they're not kit cars per se but they still look and drive the same.

And yes time of year for selling is a big factor for such a car.

jkh112

3,321 posts

94 months

Monday 29th January
quotequote all
Is it the one on car and classic? By chance I have been looking at that and thinking it would be a lot of fun, I am thinking of ditching the motorbike and getting something like this to replace it.
If it is that one then the lack of mot would put people off. Is it worth sticking it through the test to see if it would pass?

Jukebag

Original Poster:

806 posts

75 months

Monday 29th January
quotequote all
Yes it is the same Tiger that's on carandclassic. It would be best putting it through an MOT, though I cannot guarantee if it will pass as it has been off road late 2016. At the moment I haven't had time to deal with the car due to other commitments. The rest of the family seem to urgently want it out of the way.
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annodomini2

5,688 posts

187 months

Monday 29th January
quotequote all
The main reason for the bright colours is visibility, you're in a small, fast and lightweight car, with minimal crash protection.

You want people to see you coming!

spyder dryver

1,170 posts

152 months

Monday 29th January
quotequote all
Good points to my eyes...
Good engine choice.
Nice seats

Bad points...
No MOT, can't be tested properly or driven home.
Sierra subframe/ trailing arm setup. Wheelbase looks odd.
'Orrible dash
" wheels.
Cycle wings.
No air filters!
No screen. Would be OK for a track car but the track car buyer might not want an E1.

Filters, wheels, wings could be sorted and wouldn't stop me from buying the car.
The Sierra setup and lack of MOT would.

Having said all this, get an MOT on it and stick close to your 5K.
There are few cars at that price with a Duratec in. It must go like stink!
Without a test drive you cannot show off the cars strongest point.


All IMHO.


Jukebag

Original Poster:

806 posts

75 months

Tuesday 30th January
quotequote all
spyder dryver said:
Good points to my eyes...
Good engine choice.
Nice seats

Bad points...
No MOT, can't be tested properly or driven home.
Sierra subframe/ trailing arm setup. Wheelbase looks odd.
'Orrible dash
" wheels.
Cycle wings.
No air filters!
No screen. Would be OK for a track car but the track car buyer might not want an E1.

Filters, wheels, wings could be sorted and wouldn't stop me from buying the car.
The Sierra setup and lack of MOT would.

Having said all this, get an MOT on it and stick close to your 5K.
There are few cars at that price with a Duratec in. It must go like stink!
Without a test drive you cannot show off the cars strongest point.


All IMHO.

Thanks for that.

I'm no expert on such cars, as it was my dads car, but I don't know why the wheelbase looks odd, cycle wings look bad, trailing arm setup and sierra subframe. I would say the dash isn't all that bad, in fact IMO it looks nice and some have remarked how nice it looks. One chap who came to view a Scimitar I was selling seemed more interested in the Tiger after he saw it, though likely the price and no MOT put him off. Again, I suppose those points are down to personal choice than anything else.

I can understand why some choose those bright colours, but with this car it was never going to be driven in extreme weather conditions, on a track, in the dark, or on rough terrain except in dry conditions in the summer on country roads; yes boring some will say, but if you're getting on a bit it's not something you'd want to be doing. The car has never been thrashed about like some owners like to do with them.

renmure

2,758 posts

160 months

Tuesday 30th January
quotequote all
I think anyone with a bit of experience with these type of cars can decide for themselves whether they are put off by the various bits n bobs on the car, such as the aeroscreen* etc.

I expect the bigger issue is the lack of MOT** and the apparent unwillingness to "invest" the 40 quid or so on putting it through a test so any potential buyer, experienced or not, can get a simple appreciation of what you are asking for it and how much, if anything, they may need to spend on it (time and/or money)

  • I wouldn't be fussed about the aeroscreen.
  • I wouldn't even consider enquiring about a car that was specifically advertised without an MOT unless it was a banger because my expectation is that it would be. All IMHO.
Edited by renmure on Tuesday 30th January 16:20

Jukebag

Original Poster:

806 posts

75 months

Tuesday 30th January
quotequote all
I agree it does need an MOT otherwise no one will likely view and buy. Though the Scimitar I sold a few months back didn't have an MOT, and the person who bought it trailered it back. I was constantly told there'd be a heap of things wrong with it and wouldn't pass, would cost a fortune to put right (even though it hadn't stood very long), so I lowered to price to reflect no MOT. I later discovered the car passed with no advisories (according to the dvla), so I was somewhat peeved as I could've sold the car for a little more if I hadn't listened to someone's advice that it wasn't gonna be worth putting through an MOT because there would lots of issues which would cost a fortune to put right

Edited by Jukebag on Tuesday 30th January 12:06

renmure

2,758 posts

160 months

Tuesday 30th January
quotequote all
So in summary:

You agree than not having an MOT is putting people off.
You agree that the colour may be putting people off.
You suspect not having a windscreen may be putting people off.
You acknowledge that not being a factory build will put some people off.
You know that it's probably the wrong time of the year to be selling a Tiger kit car.
You suspect some folk will say you are asking too much money for it.

I'm not trying to be a smartass but you can't change much of the above other than the MOT status and the price so surely the way to give yourself the best chance of selling it is to get it MOT'd asap and then either reduce the price till it sells or hold the price and hope that spring/summer brings a bit more interest. Good luck with it.

Toltec

5,622 posts

159 months

Tuesday 30th January
quotequote all
Thinking about the colour, it might be worth seeing how much a wrap would cost.

Jukebag

Original Poster:

806 posts

75 months

Tuesday 30th January
quotequote all
I didn't admit it's the wrong colour, in fact I find nothing wrong with the colour. And I won't be wrapping it because that'll be pointless. It isnt the best time of year to sell, of course, but family members are pushing me to get shut asap because they don't want it sitting idle too long and need space for another vehicle.

spyder dryver

1,170 posts

152 months

Tuesday 30th January
quotequote all
The best thing about the car is the engine. The other things are a matter of preference and could be changed to suit the buyer. The one thing that everybody "prefers" is SPEED!
Its also the one thing that the prospective buyer will be unable to be swayed by unless you MOT it.
He can't hand over the cash and drive it away either.

renmure

2,758 posts

160 months

Tuesday 30th January
quotequote all
Jukebag said:
I didn't admit it's the wrong colour, in fact I find nothing wrong with the colour.
Jukebag said:
Colour, well the car is as black as Darth Vader. I suspect most want those gawdy green, yellow and orange colours ...
Ok, it's not the wrong colour, it's just a colour that most buyers won't want then.

Anyhow. I'm sure when you MOT it you will find a buyer at some price.

Frankthered

1,291 posts

116 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
I must confess that I'm a little surprised there hasn't been a bit more love for the aero-screen TBH! There are usually a few posters who will state that a windscreen is a waste of time on a 7 style car.

Personally, a windscreen would be my choice but there are plenty for whom this wouldn't be an issue!

I'm a bit surprised by some of the other comments too - cycle wings being negative? Again, not my preference but trying to find a 7 with anything but cycle these days is a struggle! I don't believe Tiger have made a 7 type kit with anything else.

I haven't been able to track down your ad, OP, so haven't seen any pictures but, other than the car being a Cat and therefore having a Sierra diff setup (adding weight and not helping the handling) the rest of the issues don't appear to be insurmountable to me. (I'm not in the market for one though!)

Wheels are easy enough to change, as is the colour of the car and even the dash if the new owner doesn't like it - but the more the potential buyer wants to change on the car, the less money he will want to pay you for it!

You really do need to get the MOT done, though, and I think you've acknowledged this - even if the car fails and you don't want to fix it, you could include the reason for failure in your advert - but of course, the buyer will want to pay less.

Have you tried the Locostbuilders forum - you will get more opinions on there - and it's likely that they will be well-informed ones too.

You might even find a buyer on there ...

Equus

4,737 posts

37 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
Frankthered said:
I must confess that I'm a little surprised there hasn't been a bit more love for the aero-screen TBH! There are usually a few posters who will state that a windscreen is a waste of time on a 7 style car.
Yep, I'm one of them. But not many of us buying such cars at this time of year, certainly when such a car has no MOT.

And personally I wouldn't go near anything with the Sierra semi-trailing arm IRS, either, but not much the OP can do about that.

Frankthered said:
I'm a bit surprised by some of the other comments too - cycle wings being negative? Again, not my preference but trying to find a 7 with anything but cycle these days is a struggle! I don't believe Tiger have made a 7 type kit with anything else.

I haven't been able to track down your ad, OP, so haven't seen any pictures...
it's this one, I think, so it actually has clamshell wings, believe it or not (I didn't realise that Tiger offered them as an option, but there you go...they look like Caterham items, in fact, so maybe that was the builder's modification). I'm actually quite fond of clamshells, but I'm in the minority there these days, I know.

S47

1,208 posts

116 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
IMO Aeroscreens are awesome - but if you own a 7 & take your wife/girlfriend/husband with you ON blats regularly she probably won't like the aero, she'll want a screen & sidescreens and probably a hood fitted, [to protect her precious hairdo] unless she's like my wife who's had both hips replaced and has a fatter ass than she should, which makes getting in a 7 with hood up IMPOSSIBLEsmile My wife now loves the Aero - No Sidesreens etc which makes car entry easier for hersmile
SO far as selling a7 is concerned Most buyers are NOT hardened 7 buffs, but just ordinary people buying a 7 probably for the one summer to replace their MX5, in this case they won't consisder a car without all the weather kit and any car they buy WILL have to have a full screen fitted.
Good luck selling any 7 without the full weather kit. exception to this are the Caterham superlights which only appeal to hardened 7 buffs who appreciate the benefits of an aero thumbup but most 7 kitcar copies will be sold to ordinary people.
As far as colors go IMO - Brighter colors are better, anyone who buys a black, or dark colored 7 is a boring old tt - a 7 is a fun car so get a fun color not boring tintop/repmobile Black/Silver or titanium. IMO colors such as Kawasaki green or Bright orange are worth a fair bit more than the common [as muck] yellow or red cars and up to twice as much as the 3 boring Rep colors mentioned previously.
If it's your first 7 buy a bog standard car in a nice color, see whether the 7 experience is for you, [it won't be for most people] if so you can upgrade to a more powerful 7 easily, Buying a powerful 7 as your first 7 will scare you stless [and you'll hate it] even if you manage to survive, don't think coz your last car was a tintop GTI [or similar] that you'll adapt to a 7 easily, you won't - a 7 is 3 divisions up performance wise from a overweight boring tintop GTi.
If you decide to get a 7 use it as intended, only then will you appreciate it fully smile

spyder dryver

1,170 posts

152 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
The cycle wing/clamshell wing issue is my fault. I got my nomenclature up my arse.
I meant to list clamshells as a negative. Not cycle wings.

Having said that I rebuilt and sold a Lotus twincam engined pre-lit Westy a while ago which looked ace with clamshells. The buyer agreed!
They suit an earlier car.

Jukebag

Original Poster:

806 posts

75 months

Wednesday 31st January
quotequote all
I appreciate the much needed advice, thanks.

I can't comment on the sierra diff, etc as I have no expertise in that kind of thing. The lack of a windscreen doesn't really affect the driveability and visibility much imo, just a little bit more "wind in your hair" so to speak, though as a passenger, doing 40mph (which in a car like that looks like you're doing 70) it does somewhat take the breath out of you and you come back with your hair froze to your head:-). I don't think the car would've been nearly as exhilarating (and fun) to be in with a windscreen.

Edited by Jukebag on Wednesday 31st January 20:40