Whats happened to the Kit car world in the past 8 years?
Discussion
Actually they are not departing too far from their standard practice. Sometime ago there was an article in a Sunday paper supplement that did a piece on Westfield, holding them up as a success story of the industry. One of the factors Westfield attributed to their success is that they source in a lot of their components instead of trying to do them in house.
This is something that happened over the last 15 or so years to the large engineering company I worked for until recently. The problem in our case (Aerospace) is that we have lost the expertise/ability to manufacture certain things in the UK as things have been out sourced or rationalised internally as we have merged with European companies. No darstardly foreign game plan, just economics at work. These things were necessary to stay competitive/survive.
This is something that happened over the last 15 or so years to the large engineering company I worked for until recently. The problem in our case (Aerospace) is that we have lost the expertise/ability to manufacture certain things in the UK as things have been out sourced or rationalised internally as we have merged with European companies. No darstardly foreign game plan, just economics at work. These things were necessary to stay competitive/survive.
I am a little bemused by the value of some old kit cars.
Look at early Caterham Sevens, which seem to command bizzarely strong prices.
And the 1980s aluminium bodied Westfield Sevens are also sought after.
So are Westfield XIs.
Also look at Marcos, Ginetta, the original GTMs. And stuff like TVR Vixens.
Or Manx Buggies and GP Spyders.
Then there are the obscure things like Unipower GTs, Pipers, Ronarts, Kougar Jaguars, JZR Trikes, Trikings etc, which can command astonishing prices.
And of course, a well built Cobra or Stratos will always do well.
I suppose that these are cars that have become classics in their own right, or are well executed replicas of high end classics.
So if you consider the prices they command, it always brings you back to the IVA.
In principle there is still the demand. There is a thriving restoration scene for classic cars (and classic kit cars). But the common denominator is that the desirable stuff already has that vital registration document.
Wouldn't it be nice if Brexit resulted in all of the IVA regulatory requirements being swept aside to be replaced with something akin to the original SVA tests? Something that had enough teeth to stop dangerous designs or badly executed builds from getting on the road, but that provided a bit of encouragement to the industry, instead of the impossibly large stick that we presently have.
For God's sake, the 1980s kit car scene was recycling at it's finest and a valuable part of our manufacturing industry. It should have been encouraged.
Look at early Caterham Sevens, which seem to command bizzarely strong prices.
And the 1980s aluminium bodied Westfield Sevens are also sought after.
So are Westfield XIs.
Also look at Marcos, Ginetta, the original GTMs. And stuff like TVR Vixens.
Or Manx Buggies and GP Spyders.
Then there are the obscure things like Unipower GTs, Pipers, Ronarts, Kougar Jaguars, JZR Trikes, Trikings etc, which can command astonishing prices.
And of course, a well built Cobra or Stratos will always do well.
I suppose that these are cars that have become classics in their own right, or are well executed replicas of high end classics.
So if you consider the prices they command, it always brings you back to the IVA.
In principle there is still the demand. There is a thriving restoration scene for classic cars (and classic kit cars). But the common denominator is that the desirable stuff already has that vital registration document.
Wouldn't it be nice if Brexit resulted in all of the IVA regulatory requirements being swept aside to be replaced with something akin to the original SVA tests? Something that had enough teeth to stop dangerous designs or badly executed builds from getting on the road, but that provided a bit of encouragement to the industry, instead of the impossibly large stick that we presently have.
For God's sake, the 1980s kit car scene was recycling at it's finest and a valuable part of our manufacturing industry. It should have been encouraged.
Pat H said:
I am a little bemused by the value of some old kit cars.
Wouldn't it be nice if Brexit resulted in all of the IVA regulatory requirements being swept aside to be replaced with something akin to the original SVA tests?
For God's sake, the 1980s kit car scene was recycling at it's finest and a valuable part of our manufacturing industry. It should have been encouraged.
AgreedWouldn't it be nice if Brexit resulted in all of the IVA regulatory requirements being swept aside to be replaced with something akin to the original SVA tests?
For God's sake, the 1980s kit car scene was recycling at it's finest and a valuable part of our manufacturing industry. It should have been encouraged.
Yes but I doubt it - I put an ex hillclimb car on the road 20ish years ago - a simple form and an MOT was all it took.
Big business / the Govt don't want that kind of recycling - they like scrappage schemes which take old cars off the road and nice expensive new ones are sold which generate more tax
Pat H said:
Wouldn't it be nice if Brexit resulted in all of the IVA regulatory requirements being swept aside to be replaced with something akin to the original SVA tests? Something that had enough teeth to stop dangerous designs or badly executed builds from getting on the road, but that provided a bit of encouragement to the industry, instead of the impossibly large stick that we presently have.
Couldn't agree more. But will anybody do anything about it - someone of influence within the kit car community? If Brexit goes ahead, in whatever form, the opportunity will present itself to do exactly what you have said. A one size fits all test for both grey import tintops and kit cars is blatantly unfair. The emissions regs kit cars are going to be subjected to in the most recent arbitrary bureaucratic stitch up, are set by a series of EU directives. We're gonna get one chance at this come Brexit. If there is anyone out there with the influence to do anything, they need to be ready.You know, it's possible to demand an audience with your own MP. A friend of mine in Maidenhead even had some one on one time with Theresa May recently on this basis. There must be an MP somewhere who owns/has owned a Locaterfield etc. If an enthusiast were to make an appeal to the right person at the right time, it could generate the publicity and momentum needed. Timing is the key.
Edited by Johnny5hoods on Monday 19th March 20:36
Edited by Johnny5hoods on Monday 19th March 20:45
Tempest_5 said:
Anyway, here are some old scans of some photos I took 25 years ago at the Kit car Action Day, Castle Coombe circuit, just to have a look at what we had. Apologies for the quality, they were for my old website in the age of the dial up connection.
First up, mine.
Nice. Good times. First up, mine.
Edited by Johnny5hoods on Monday 19th March 20:26
Edited by Johnny5hoods on Monday 19th March 20:27
At the risk of being a bit flippant I found this the other day on Milweb and wondered if there is a market for replica military vehicles especially now that real WW2 stuff fetches seriously mad money.
http://www.milweb.net/webvert/a2947/92567
Jago jeeps were fun but obviously not that accurate, though that might have been copyright avoidance. Sometime ago there was a Schwimmwagen replica marketed. Not sure what happened to it. The originals were meant to be one of the best amphibious cars made, however it is about £80,000 -£100,000 for an original now. Ford GPAs have gone the same way cost wise.
http://www.milweb.net/webvert/a2947/92567
Jago jeeps were fun but obviously not that accurate, though that might have been copyright avoidance. Sometime ago there was a Schwimmwagen replica marketed. Not sure what happened to it. The originals were meant to be one of the best amphibious cars made, however it is about £80,000 -£100,000 for an original now. Ford GPAs have gone the same way cost wise.
Johnny5hoods said:
Couldn't agree more. But will anybody do anything about it - someone of influence within the kit car community?
Won't happen, I guarantee it: the 'people of influence' within the specialist car industry (companies like Caterham, Westield, Ariel, Morgan, Lotus, Ginetta) all have a strong vested interest in the opposite happening (ie. strict alignment with EU legislation), to ensure their continued access to the mainland European market.Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in fantasyland.
Equus said:
Caterham, Westield, Ariel, Morgan, Lotus, Ginetta
Are any of their models available as a kit? It is easy to associate the low volume manufacturer with 'Kit Car'. IMO this is unhelpful when discussing the hobby of building a car from a kit.Building a car from a kit involves a degree of labour.
The way that labour is divided amongst us is societal.
Tempest_5 said:
Edited by eliot on Saturday 24th March 11:40
Tempest_5 said:
Sometime ago there was a Schwimmwagen replica marketed. Not sure what happened to it. The originals were meant to be one of the best amphibious cars made,
Imagine that, having to pass both car AND boat IVA!Trouble is, Schwimmwagen replica = Beetle = polar killing air cooled engine
I completely agree about the plug and play thing though - so maybe ‘we’ need to make kits much easier to build?
My 19 yo son has just announced he has his heart set on building a Blackwell SPR1 btw, so not all hope is lost...
Hi Storer ......... there are loads of very desirable 'kits' available in the USA, however Brexit has no relevance to the building one in the UK. The challenge is getting one through an IVA test. There are a huge number of issues in regard to things like lights, glass, etc, etc.
In the US things are very different. There is no equivalent to our IVA test ....... you just build it and register it.
And I'm sad to say, don't think that Brexit will in any way ease the situation we have here. In fact it is becoming increasingly clear that regulations will get even more demanding.
However we now have the situation that cars built before 1977 will soon be MOT and Road Tax (VED) exempt.
On one hand the 'Kit Cat' scene is shrinking but the 'Classic Car' scene is going nuts and prices are climbing.
In the US things are very different. There is no equivalent to our IVA test ....... you just build it and register it.
And I'm sad to say, don't think that Brexit will in any way ease the situation we have here. In fact it is becoming increasingly clear that regulations will get even more demanding.
However we now have the situation that cars built before 1977 will soon be MOT and Road Tax (VED) exempt.
On one hand the 'Kit Cat' scene is shrinking but the 'Classic Car' scene is going nuts and prices are climbing.
Do kit car owners want the industry to be bigger?
As it stands at the moment its a tiny niche that means we arent really on the radar of government, if it was on a bigger scale we might be under more scrutiny, meaning crash tests, crumple zones, pedestrian protection, ABS, stability control etc etc. And we definitetly dont want any more of that do we?
As it stands at the moment its a tiny niche that means we arent really on the radar of government, if it was on a bigger scale we might be under more scrutiny, meaning crash tests, crumple zones, pedestrian protection, ABS, stability control etc etc. And we definitetly dont want any more of that do we?
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