One-off "kit car" designers
Discussion
this place is local to me and his cars quite frankly look incredible, the attention to detail is very impressive.
https://djcsportscars.co.uk
https://djcsportscars.co.uk
I don't know of any true 'one stop shops', assuming you have a design and want someone to build it for you.
There are plenty of race prep companies who can fabricate a rolling chassis for you (I can recommend Gary Gunn at Loaded Gunn Racing, from personal experience), but then you'd normally be looking toward a different company to do the bucks and moulds for the bodywork, as that's a specialism in itself.
There are plenty of race prep companies who can fabricate a rolling chassis for you (I can recommend Gary Gunn at Loaded Gunn Racing, from personal experience), but then you'd normally be looking toward a different company to do the bucks and moulds for the bodywork, as that's a specialism in itself.
simonrockman said:
He couldn't get away with those low-slung headlights in the UK.
Most motorsport design places would do you something good n proper.... the problem you will have is "doing it properly" makes it rather cost prohibitive, especially if you want any CFD or FE work... a good design team will be able to design something pretty well without FE though, thats only really used when you're squeezing the final 5% out of something.
I'd suggest for a proper body/chassis/suspension/duct/cooling and bodywork design (pretty much a complete car if you have the engine and box already) you would need 3/4 guys for 6m solid. That's around 4000hrs design work - probably ~£250k before anything is even made.
Which is about the same as the development of world touring cars and GT cars I've worked on. (Although there's extra budget for CFD and aero for those too).
I'd suggest for a proper body/chassis/suspension/duct/cooling and bodywork design (pretty much a complete car if you have the engine and box already) you would need 3/4 guys for 6m solid. That's around 4000hrs design work - probably ~£250k before anything is even made.
Which is about the same as the development of world touring cars and GT cars I've worked on. (Although there's extra budget for CFD and aero for those too).
Just re-read your OP.
If you already have a proper chassis design you want fabricating there are lots of very good fabricators out there.
Again, a lot of upfront cost is required though. If you want it accurate then you'll need to build the chassis on a proper jig plate and there will need to be a fair amount of jig design and manufacture, and machining to make sure its right.
If you already have a proper chassis design you want fabricating there are lots of very good fabricators out there.
Again, a lot of upfront cost is required though. If you want it accurate then you'll need to build the chassis on a proper jig plate and there will need to be a fair amount of jig design and manufacture, and machining to make sure its right.
Ambleton said:
If you want it accurate then you'll need to build the chassis on a proper jig plate and there will need to be a fair amount of jig design and manufacture, and machining to make sure its right.
If it's a one-off, most experienced chassis builders wouldn't bother with sophisticated jigs: they'll just build it on a welding table, with very basic jigs (MDF or plywood templates) for the critical suspension and drivetrain pick-up locations.The one I had done (which was actually a really complex spaceframe) cost about £4K, from memory, and I'm going to show your estimated design cost of £250K to the guy who commissioned it (Jon, are you still lurking on this here forum?!)... I could do with buying myself a new house!
CanAm said:
I seem to remember reading that the chassis for Chris Rea's Ferrari 156 cost him £35,000.
If that was for the actual fabrication of a bare chassis, then they saw him coming from a long way off.This is a (replica) Ferrari 156 chassis:
(from this article).
It's not complicated.
If the cost you saw was £35K, then I suspect that included all the work on research and reverse-engineering the design drawings; either that, or it included reproduction of all the suspension and steering components (whereas any sensible new design will use off-the-shelf uprights/hubs, steering rack and coilovers). Or maybe they really did see him coming, and there was a hefty 'Rock Star' premium added to the price.
Ambleton said:
Just re-read your OP.
I'm not clear on what the OP is asking for, myself: the thread title seems to suggest that he's looking for a designer; the actual post suggests that he's looking for someone who can build a design.Clarification would help.
Edited by Equus on Monday 28th December 17:41
Equus said:
If it's a one-off, most experienced chassis builders wouldn't bother with sophisticated jigs: they'll just build it on a welding table, with very basic jigs (MDF or plywood templates) for the critical suspension and drivetrain pick-up locations.
The one I had done (which was actually a really complex spaceframe) cost about £4K, from memory, and I'm going to show your estimated design cost of £250K to the guy who commissioned it (Jon, are you still lurking on this here forum?!)... I could do with buying myself a new house!
MDF and plywood templates aren't accurate. Accurate on a welded assembly to me is +/-1mm. Thats after stress relieving. The one I had done (which was actually a really complex spaceframe) cost about £4K, from memory, and I'm going to show your estimated design cost of £250K to the guy who commissioned it (Jon, are you still lurking on this here forum?!)... I could do with buying myself a new house!
My £250k is a complete bespoke design of basically the whole vehicle from nothing. Uprights, wishbones, chassis, body design, occupant installation, pedal box design, steering column, steering arms, ducting, cooling, braking, steering etc engine and gearbox integration.
Would be good to know what the OP actually wants though.
Equus said:
CanAm said:
I seem to remember reading that the chassis for Chris Rea's Ferrari 156 cost him £35,000.
If that was for the actual fabrication of a bare chassis, then they saw him coming from a long way off.(from this article).
It's not complicated.
If the cost you saw was £35K, then I suspect that included all the work on research and reverse-engineering the design drawings; either that, or it included reproduction of all the suspension and steering components (whereas any sensible new design will use off-the-shelf uprights/hubs, steering rack and coilovers). Or maybe they really did see him coming, and there was a hefty 'Rock Star' premium added to the price.
He must have done a good job though, because Chris Rea was apparently gutted when Phil Hill spotted it as a replica straight away, "because the welding was far too good" (plus the fact that no genuine cars exist).
Ambleton said:
MDF and plywood templates aren't accurate. Accurate on a welded assembly to me is +/-1mm. Thats after stress relieving.
They're accurate enough.In fact in practice they're more accurate, because here in the real world, spaceframes are never stress relieved (to do so involves raising the temperature of the whole chassis, in its jig, to several hundred degrees C). With lightweight MDF jigs, you can see any distortion happening and compensate with your welding sequence. If the chassis is bolted rigidly into a heavy-duty jig, the first chance you get to see any distortion is when it's released from the jig, and by then it's too late to do anything about it.
There's other stuff you can do to maximise accuracy too - design the geometrically critical bulkheads so that they can be welded separately, first, and/or add any brackets for secondary pickups after the main structure has been fully welded (the alignment of the tubes is not that critical, so long as the positions of the pickups relative to each other are accurate).
There's a lot of nonsense spouted about spaceframe fabrication by people who have never tried to design or fabricate one for real.
Oh, and for the sort of car the OP has mentioned, you can knock the zero off the end of your estimated design cost. I guarantee that, to the degree that I'll happily offer to do it myself for that much.
J.D said:
There's no shortage of small scale bike builders, but are there any equivalents for cars? Someone who you could go to with a one-off design?
(I'm thinking more Locost or Arial style than model T hotrod or space frame GTR.)
Does this count?(I'm thinking more Locost or Arial style than model T hotrod or space frame GTR.)
AR Tipo 184 spaceframe kit with MX5 running gear: https://tipo184.com/?fbclid=IwAR3CKb8y0PLOFrYLINgP...
Gassing Station | Kit Cars | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff