Robin Hood

Author
Discussion

Liszt

4,329 posts

269 months

Thursday 6th April 2006
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A friend of mine has a RH and loves it. He is realistic about what it is though. A load of Sierra parts dressed up to look sporty. He had fun building it and loves pottering about in it at the weekend and the pilgramage to Le Mans.

He did say that the manual and factory support is a bit pap, but the owners club is a great resource. You just have to be prepared to get what you pay for. I am building a Rush V8 and it won't have been cheap by any standard when it is finished. It will however have a professional metalic paint job and a blue printed V8, but you pay for that.

A Robin Hood wouldn't be for me, but a Locost or tiger might be if I had a tighter budget.

RushV8

99 posts

238 months

Thursday 6th April 2006
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Liszt

I'm with you, RHs are good cheap fun, but not for me. Wot spec your "Blue Printed V8" ? Doesn't have to be too procey you know : I used V8 Developments at Spalding N.Lincs , and the owner Ray Webb is (a) a nice / sound bloke, (b) a mega tallent in the Rover V8 tuning / mods world , and (c) a fan of Rushes + racing his SD1 which is development horse for his latest mods. They have a 1000BHP dyno and charged me £2.5K to source a brand new 4.6ltr Range Rover engine and then lightened / balanced crank , rods, used pocketed pistons , stg 3 big valve polished + ported heads, radiussed and polished oilways and gallery, dual duplex timing chains and vernier timing wheels , etc etc. He dyno'd it and jetted the 4 barrell Weber-Eddlebrock Performer 500 carb for me and set up the Mallery dual points dizzy and got it to give ~ 300BHP. My Rush V8 is now a rocket !!

Once in the car I took it over to sort out a flat spot in the power curve and have an oil leak fixed, all FOC and with great professionalism. I'D RECOMMEND "V8 DEVELOPMENTS" to anyone : try www.v8developments.co.uk/ for all your power boosting bits.

Liszt

4,329 posts

269 months

Thursday 6th April 2006
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It was done by Dave Ellis (DJEllis) and is a similar spec to yours, although it cost a bit more. Time will tell if it was money well spent but it was one of those things where you start something and it is easy just to carry on and spend the money than start again else where. If I was doing it again, I might do it else where, but he is also a Range Rover man, so we spent alot of time talking about those and Rushes.

Still, there is a certain satisfaction in bolting the engine in, filling with fluids, connecting the battery, and it firing first time. I can stand a pound coin on the rocker cover and rev it, which is a neat trick. If I could just persuade my Mrs. that I need another one to put in my Rangie...

alant

202 posts

218 months

Thursday 6th April 2006
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RUSH V8,

I totaly agree with you that the important thing is to really think carefully about what you want the car for before buying any car, but especially a kit car and do your homework, and I also note your comment re: Westfields etc, which once again are extremely good and were on my wish list but unfortunately not my reality list.

I am married with 2 kids so time and money is scarce but I missed my plaything (and the car) so I have bought a Freestyle Off Road Buggy which I am building for road use, my reason for this is that we used to, many more years ago than I would like to admit, rally a Cooper S Mini and I always said that one day I would do something again with a mini.

My skills with body work hover around the zero mark though I am perfectly happy with mechanical/electrical issues so a mini based kit seemed a good idea, particularly as you can pick up mini bits so cheaply !!, my first mistake by not doing my homework, mini bits now can be a fortune, particularly new parts, by the time I have finished I will probably have spent as much as I would have done on many, more expensive looking cars, but I have to say I am enjoying my time in the garage tinkering and hopefully in the summer will be able to enjoy driving around in the buggy.

Regards

Alan

RushV8

99 posts

238 months

Friday 7th April 2006
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alant said:
RUSH V8,

I totaly agree with you that the important thing is to really think carefully about what you want the car for before buying any car, but especially a kit car and do your homework, and I also note your comment re: Westfields etc, which once again are extremely good and were on my wish list but unfortunately not my reality list.

I am married with 2 kids so time and money is scarce but I missed my plaything (and the car) so I have bought a Freestyle Off Road Buggy which I am building for road use, my reason for this is that we used to, many more years ago than I would like to admit, rally a Cooper S Mini and I always said that one day I would do something again with a mini.



Alant,

I too started driving / modding with a 1969 Mini Cooper which we autotested and hillclimbed, then a 1430cc engined Mini Special 1100 , and have over the years been v. tempted to do a Pimlico or GTM with a 1430cc engine ..... but never got round to it for varous reasons (inc. too many "happy" memories of blown bypass hoses, damp points / condenser, sticking starter motor pinions, and gearbox faults - oh happy days !)
Sounds like your buggy will be a totally unpractical blast, and therefore great fun and a real head turner (people will be bound to do "double takes". Have fun with it.

alant

202 posts

218 months

Friday 7th April 2006
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Rush V8,

Thanks I intend to,

Only problem with your post is that it has now reminded me of all those things about the mini that my mind had somehow blanked out!!!, amazing what the mind can do when you have a daft idea that seems so right at the time.

Regards

Alan

RushV8

99 posts

238 months

Monday 10th April 2006
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Alant,

the things I remebered were (in the main) fond memories of being let down and the often ingenous "lash up" repairs which always got me home ! e.g. If starter just wirred away and didn't engage, a stiff wrap with the wheel-brace always unstuck the engager gear.... bypass hoses can be replaced with a piece of garden hose and 2 jubeliee clips (everyone has a garden hose so you're always able to blag a couple of cm of hose off the nearest house.... broken throttle cables can be replaced by bicycle rear brake cables if that's all you can lay your hands on .... etc etc. That's what I love about minis, so simple to diagnose and fix, and sound throaty with a good head and decent exhause manifold. ONLY REAL SOD OF A PROBLEM WAS WHEN MY FAN BOLTS CAME LOOSE AND ATE A HOLE THROUGH THE RAIDATOR - THAT WAS A TOW TRUCK JOB (HAD NO BUBBLE GUM HANDY!! )

cbrannan

128 posts

182 months

Saturday 31st January 2009
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all this talk of Robin Hoods being inferior baffles me, obviously from people who have never owned one, or simply have more money that can buy them caterhams etc. You get what you pay for, I bought my Exmo 11 a good few years ago, yes it's basic but heaps of fun. I remember having a run out with a pal against him in his Porsche 993 Carrera 2 'S' along about 5 miles of windy 'A' and 'B' roads, he's a good driver having done several track days in his car, the old 'rebodied Sierra' left him for dead, he was flabergasted! Come on fellahs, compare apples for apples please........

Melch

228 posts

233 months

Saturday 31st January 2009
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Was that a record for recussitation of dead threads???

Busa_Rush

6,930 posts

250 months

Saturday 31st January 2009
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cbrannan said:
all this talk of Robin Hoods being inferior baffles me
Yeah, I don't understand it either whistletongue out

Sam_68

9,939 posts

244 months

Saturday 31st January 2009
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Damn, I wish I was a good enough driver to pull the pants down on a 993 Carrera with a Pinto-engined Seven, whilst racing on public roads. wink

tvralfagtv6

141 posts

253 months

Tuesday 3rd February 2009
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can't believe I am doing this but extremely shortened story down the pub chatting " I am after a seven" oh yeah chat chat chat i dscuss all the different types etc. next week "mates got one with a blown'ish engine"you interested? nah there crap (Well thats the general consensus) couple of beers later...... lets go see it! make arrangements to see it, a stainless bodied seven with sierra rear deck and inboard front set up. I was driving a 911 at the time as a daily driver Drove this car and was grinning a lot more in a shorter space of timeimpressed I bought it at a knock down price.(well there crap aren't they?) Sure it had work to do Evolution over three years has gone from pinto to cosworth to caterham supersport K jenveys etc.4 speed to 5 speed to 5 speed CR and s shift 6-7 grand later
twelve kg of angle iron bracing and some welding of bolted panels. Lots of mods and 500 additional rivets. ITS a corker, weighs in at 690kg full dressed with a full tank no skittishness at all kills bumps assaults rough b roads with sure footed compliance and according to a mate who has more experience of other sevens says its the most planted seven he has ever been in. So yes they get bad press because they generally look FUGLY and have builders that only have the budget to make a basic fun sportscar. If thats what your after job done.

If you want more than that I guess your only limited by your imagination and pocket.For me it was an engineering challenge. I used the 911 as initial driving benchmark The dream to better or at least match some well engineered competition. I am not finished, how could i be,I never will be, but I am not bored either. In short they are capable even in under steering standard pinto form.

mikeveal

4,558 posts

249 months

Friday 6th February 2009
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You pays yer money and takes yer choice.
There is a reason that RH's are cheaper than other Seven inspired kits. The RH's are generally heavier and do not ride or corner as well as other more expensive kits. You will see this at track days when the RH's are moving slower than other LSIS.

The aluminium RH chassis scares me.

Having said that, the road is not a racetrack. Personally, i'd rather have a car that feels like I'm doing 90 when actually I'm doing 50. Compare any seven to a tintop and you'll get that feeling. So if the RH puts a smile on your face, and you can accept that you won't be driving the fastet thing on the road - go for it.



Chequred Demon

508 posts

193 months

Saturday 7th February 2009
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Well I started to build one and was horrified at what a tower of crap it was. This is not a "Kit" at all, more of a concept that needs an engineer to design all the details and re-engineer the terrible mistakes. Fortunately for me the wife died before I did ( driving the horrible pile of poo) so I didn't have time to finish it.

If you get snowed in and are bored, read the terrible saga at http://www.10-42.com/NELS2B (Case sensitive).

Comadis

1,731 posts

222 months

Sunday 8th February 2009
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3-4k budget=never ever a robin!!!

you will get a reasonable westfield,an indepandent rear suspension model, with a nice engine producing 115 to 140horsepower, incl. full weather gear and a nice set of alloys for that money.

also a tiger (but they are extreme narrow...you must be slim!!).

or a sylva striker!!

grimfandango

372 posts

184 months

Monday 9th February 2009
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i bought and sold my westfield for £4000 it was a 1600 crossflow had be measured on rolling road at 112 hp at the wheels with readout and everything. it was more or less perfect in every way.

i wouldnt buy a robin hood for similar money, a westfield or similar will be worth the extra;)

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

254 months

Monday 9th February 2009
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cbrannan said:
all this talk of Robin Hoods being inferior baffles me, obviously from people who have never owned one,
Or perhaps from people with even a very basic engineering background. Tricky Dicky clearly not being one of those people.

With enough time and patience they can be assembled to produce a reasonable looking car, but it doesn't stop the underlying design verging on the diabolical (the new Zero model excepted, it's easily the best RH ever designed IMO). I could turn your statement around, and say those that don't think they are inferior must have never owned a well engineered kit car.


Sssline

374 posts

219 months

Monday 9th February 2009
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Mr2Mike said:
cbrannan said:
all this talk of Robin Hoods being inferior baffles me, obviously from people who have never owned one,
Or perhaps from people with even a very basic engineering background. Tricky Dicky clearly not being one of those people.

With enough time and patience they can be assembled to produce a reasonable looking car, but it doesn't stop the underlying design verging on the diabolical (the new Zero model excepted, it's easily the best RH ever designed IMO). I could turn your statement around, and say those that don't think they are inferior must have never owned a well engineered kit car.
It would appear the difference is that RH's need to be engineered by the builder, whilst others are pre-engineered for assembly by the builder, the later will cost more as the engineering work has been done upfront and will produce a more consistant result. Does not mean you cannot get a well engineered RH model, just that it is down to the builder rather than the manufacturer.

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

254 months

Monday 9th February 2009
quotequote all
Sssline said:
It would appear the difference is that RH's need to be engineered by the builder, whilst others are pre-engineered for assembly by the builder, the later will cost more as the engineering work has been done upfront and will produce a more consistant result. Does not mean you cannot get a well engineered RH model, just that it is down to the builder rather than the manufacturer.
To an extent I agree, but the amount engineering input that most builders will be prepared to make will be constrained by the underlying design. There is trade off between the investment of time and money spent fixing problems, against the price of a car that was engineered correctly by the designer, and I have wonder how many builders bought a kit from RH knowing full well they would have to re-engineer significant parts of the car?

Chequred Demon

508 posts

193 months

Wednesday 11th February 2009
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Mr2Mike IMHO the word "re-engineer" is at the heart of the problem with the old RH 2B.

Who would "design" a kit that needs to be re-engineered? I don't think anybody would intentionally purchase a new kit that requires "re-engineering". I certainly did not.

IMHO (as a qualified automobile engineer) the RH 2B I tried to build could not be made into a road worthy vehicle without extensive modification. IMHO "Tricky Dicky" was simply a good marketing man, who made a lot of money out of "Not clearing defining the detail" of what he was selling. The buyer was left to sort out the various "details" - like suspension attachment!

In addition IMHO the Kit Car press were also culpable regarding RH, because they were providing a "cheap solution", which benefited the industry as a whole and supplied advertising revenue.

"Let the buyer beware!"

Edited by Chequred Demon on Wednesday 11th February 16:25