Stoneleigh 2007
Discussion
Re getting body styling, ring up a college and set the project with your dimensions and requirements.
Then either choose a design from those submitted, or take elements from several. Maybe the RCA / Cov will be too full of 'emsleves to bother, so try an unfashionable one like Bolton or Huddersfield, or even UMEA in Sweden. Students / colleges love real projects.
If you use the design, slip em £30 for every car sold. Better than a kick in the nads.
Then either choose a design from those submitted, or take elements from several. Maybe the RCA / Cov will be too full of 'emsleves to bother, so try an unfashionable one like Bolton or Huddersfield, or even UMEA in Sweden. Students / colleges love real projects.
If you use the design, slip em £30 for every car sold. Better than a kick in the nads.
Thanks for the kind words about the RCR kits.
The price for the components included is as aggressive as we can make it.
Dont forget it does come with full interior, leather or suede seats, stainless steel cross over exhaust , Air Con...6 piston brakes, gauges etc etc...
The new RCR Superlight Coupe will be unveiled at Carlisle with a twin intercooled twin turbo Toyota V8....It definately race car inspired....
Its our own design ...thats the easy bit..but the manufacture of a complete body from scratch and making the returns for weather seals and interior panels is the time consuming and expensive part....we are based in Detroit and have a huge pool of talent to pick from including CCS...Center for Creative Studies ...one of the top automotive design schools in the world...and it still took a year for us to define the final shape....
The price for the components included is as aggressive as we can make it.
Dont forget it does come with full interior, leather or suede seats, stainless steel cross over exhaust , Air Con...6 piston brakes, gauges etc etc...
The new RCR Superlight Coupe will be unveiled at Carlisle with a twin intercooled twin turbo Toyota V8....It definately race car inspired....
Its our own design ...thats the easy bit..but the manufacture of a complete body from scratch and making the returns for weather seals and interior panels is the time consuming and expensive part....we are based in Detroit and have a huge pool of talent to pick from including CCS...Center for Creative Studies ...one of the top automotive design schools in the world...and it still took a year for us to define the final shape....
Edited by Fran Hall on Thursday 10th May 13:58
Fran Hall said:
Thanks for the kind words about the RCR kits.
The price for the components included is as aggressive as we can make it.
Dont forget it does come with full interior, leather or suede seats, stainless steel cross over exhaust , Air Con...6 piston brakes, gauges etc etc...
The new RCR Superlight Coupe will be unveiled at Carlisle with a twin intercooled twin turbo Toyota V8....It definately race acr inspired....
Its our own design ...thats the easy bit..but the manufacture of a complete body from scratch and making the returns for weather seals and interior panels is the time consuming and expensive part....we are based in Detroit and have a huge pool of talent to pick from including CCS...Center for Creative Studies ...one of the top automotive design schools in the world...and it still took a year for us to define the final shape....
The price for the components included is as aggressive as we can make it.
Dont forget it does come with full interior, leather or suede seats, stainless steel cross over exhaust , Air Con...6 piston brakes, gauges etc etc...
The new RCR Superlight Coupe will be unveiled at Carlisle with a twin intercooled twin turbo Toyota V8....It definately race acr inspired....
Its our own design ...thats the easy bit..but the manufacture of a complete body from scratch and making the returns for weather seals and interior panels is the time consuming and expensive part....we are based in Detroit and have a huge pool of talent to pick from including CCS...Center for Creative Studies ...one of the top automotive design schools in the world...and it still took a year for us to define the final shape....
Having finally got a proper look over the RCR cars, I have to say it was extremely difficult not to just hang my own project up and hand over a cheque.
Fran Hall said:
The new RCR Superlight Coupe will be unveiled at Carlisle with a twin intercooled twin turbo Toyota V8....It definately race car inspired....
I like this a lot - reminds me of the Spice and Sauber Group C cars, which is what I always felt the Ultima should look like but never quite did.
This will be a longitudinal engine installation won't it? The engine in the pics is in entirely the wrong place
If at the same sort of price banding as the other RCR cars I think I'll be saving very hard indeed in the next couple of years cos this is exactly what I'm after.
Make sure there's a right-hand-drive variant please!
FNG said:
[
With well proportioned aesthetics, the right driven wheels, low build cost using an absolute maximum of donor parts, and styling that's fairly contemporary but not bland, I think you could have a mainstream kit. Miss one of those factors and you're consigned to the backwaters.
Given a front engine / RWD roadster that can park next to a BMW Z4 and not look the poor relation from 5 metres away, I think that'd put a big dent in the Sevens market. It's only a matter of shaping the GRP differently and thinking about the cockpit a la GTM, it's not impossible.
That was the sound of a challenge being issued!
With well proportioned aesthetics, the right driven wheels, low build cost using an absolute maximum of donor parts, and styling that's fairly contemporary but not bland, I think you could have a mainstream kit. Miss one of those factors and you're consigned to the backwaters.
Given a front engine / RWD roadster that can park next to a BMW Z4 and not look the poor relation from 5 metres away, I think that'd put a big dent in the Sevens market. It's only a matter of shaping the GRP differently and thinking about the cockpit a la GTM, it's not impossible.
That was the sound of a challenge being issued!
James,
You can achive this by doing a nice bolt on rebody on a Mazada mx5!!!!!!!!!, you have a perfectly balanced RWD chassis, with very good handling, and a tuneable engine.
The donor is cheap and plentifull, especially mk1, and the can be serviced at your local Mazda dealer, and parts are all over the world!!!. It makes so much sense.....
You could create a new coupe or roadster design, retro or modern, with a very competitively priced kit, and at an affordable build price
You do have a few negatives, that are the fixed hard points, such as windscreen rake, wheelbase dimensions, but designing a new chassis from scratch, and as competent, is not that easy.....
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 10th May 15:36
FNG said:
I can design chassis and put component packages together and derive suspension geometry that works pretty much straight out of the box but I can't deliver a pretty, proportioned and efficient bodyshape that doesn't look like something you've seen before!
Well then, we can work together.......
, I can supply the design, and you take care of the chassis engineering.....Joe T said:
Maybe whats happened is people expectations have risen above what this industry can provide at the given price point.
Working the RCR stand over the weekend, I did feel the heat from the pricing, but where can you get an Ally mono chassis car latest tech billet suspension all rolling with everything minus engine and box for 21k, but its an old style, it seems you cant win.
Edited by Joe T on Wednesday 9th May 22:34
Joe,
I agree with you, peoples expectations have risen above what the industry can provide, and that is why most kitcar manufacturers have cornerd two main niches, being :
1)High end replica sportscar manufacturing, where your typical customer can afford to pay more for a nicely finished kit, say a GT40,Lola, P4. Porsche 917's , Cobra's and a few more others, and these manufacture can still make a profit and be in business.
2) The Locost/Seven replicas niche, because the price is so low that many can afford to buy a chassis and parts, and still build a sportscar for 3000 to 6000 pounds, and have an affordable kit, good for road and track.
The others are having a tough time, because the used Elise factor, is ever so present when deciding to build your new kitcar, and the kit really needs to look good and stand out to have a chance.
The exeptions are the GTM Libra and the Murtaya, because they are pretty unique and distinctive in their design.
neilrallying said:
To put my thoughts into this one;-
The styling issue is an interesting one as it is clearly a personal opinion as to what works and what does not. One thing that is for sure is that it does not need to be the massive expense that eveyone seems to think. There are lots of designers out there who are professionals and who would love to get the chance to do a full car and who will work for less than you might think.
I have heard lots of rumours about how much we spent on developing the Murtaya, I can assure you that it is not the mega buck project that the rumour mill seems to suggest.
We created our car by carefully approaching highly skilled people with a proposal to help us create the sportscar that we wanted.
We then personally worked ourselves to the point of exhaustion for 9 months putting in mega hours doing lots of work creating all of the models, prototypes, tooling and then the fun bit of building the mule and then demo cars.
One area that we are very lucky with is that one of our Directors is a very experienced Catia user who can certainly design a good chassis, and granted this can be expensive if you try to outsource it. However it seems that many people are capable of designing a good chassis, the clothing of the chassis appears to be the issue if this thread is right.
Any project like this is about understanding where your (or your company's) strengths and weaknesses are and putting together a sound plan to address the problem areas.
The car industry is full of talented and passionate people, you just have to spend some time finding the right ones and putting a proposal in front of them that gets them fired up (and the rewards do not have to be financial ones!!).
I would be happy to talk to anyone about this who is interested, I have no secrets about who we used in designing the Murtaya or about how we did it.
Neil.
The styling issue is an interesting one as it is clearly a personal opinion as to what works and what does not. One thing that is for sure is that it does not need to be the massive expense that eveyone seems to think. There are lots of designers out there who are professionals and who would love to get the chance to do a full car and who will work for less than you might think.
I have heard lots of rumours about how much we spent on developing the Murtaya, I can assure you that it is not the mega buck project that the rumour mill seems to suggest.
We created our car by carefully approaching highly skilled people with a proposal to help us create the sportscar that we wanted.
We then personally worked ourselves to the point of exhaustion for 9 months putting in mega hours doing lots of work creating all of the models, prototypes, tooling and then the fun bit of building the mule and then demo cars.
One area that we are very lucky with is that one of our Directors is a very experienced Catia user who can certainly design a good chassis, and granted this can be expensive if you try to outsource it. However it seems that many people are capable of designing a good chassis, the clothing of the chassis appears to be the issue if this thread is right.
Any project like this is about understanding where your (or your company's) strengths and weaknesses are and putting together a sound plan to address the problem areas.
The car industry is full of talented and passionate people, you just have to spend some time finding the right ones and putting a proposal in front of them that gets them fired up (and the rewards do not have to be financial ones!!).
I would be happy to talk to anyone about this who is interested, I have no secrets about who we used in designing the Murtaya or about how we did it.
Neil.
Blimey! That's an incredibly candid post on a public forum from someone with a product that, I feel, shows the way the kit car industry should be heading. Anyone in a position to take advantage of Neil's offer of more info really ought to take it up...
Adam.
neilrallying said:
The car industry is full of talented and passionate people, you just have to spend some time finding the right ones and putting a proposal in front of them that gets them fired up (and the rewards do not have to be financial ones!!).
I would be happy to talk to anyone about this who is interested, I have no secrets about who we used in designing the Murtaya or about how we did it.
Neil.
I would be happy to talk to anyone about this who is interested, I have no secrets about who we used in designing the Murtaya or about how we did it.
Neil.
Great opportunity for all the designers on PH.......
, I'm sharpening my pencils..........
spaximus said:
My biggest issue though is that we get a talented chassis designer who then won't spend the money on a designer to cloth it well.
And this is what you get, it's not a kitcar, but they are trying for a sportscar ..........the best part is the front end.......
see:
www.weber-sportcars.com/gallery.html
fuoriserie said:
You can achive this by doing a nice bolt on rebody on a Mazada mx5!!!!!!!!!, you have a perfectly balanced RWD chassis, with very good handling, and a tuneable engine.
But you still have a pressed steel monocoque which is relatively heavy, prone to rust and carries all the compromises that the manufacturer needs to sell in volume.
A spaceframe or ally monocoque tub will release more performance and if you want it to handle the same as the donor, retaining the donor's geometry is the simplest thing in the world.
I'd be loathe to spend a lot of cash on bodywork and a respray to only achieve visual changes and no dynamic improvement.
Just my preference!
fuoriserie said:
You could create a new coupe or roadster design, retro or modern, with a very competitively priced kit, and at an affordable build price
I don't think they're that affordable when you need an expert to blend the panels in and paint it. That money can be spent on a chassis instead to give you something more tangible for the same investment.
fuoriserie said:
...designing a new chassis from scratch, and as competent, is not that easy.....
To me that's the easy bit!
I'm going to be offline for at least a week while I move house, but I'll be commenting more on this and your "future models" thread when I get back. I've a few ideas that maybe we could develop.
fuoriserie said:
spaximus said:
My biggest issue though is that we get a talented chassis designer who then won't spend the money on a designer to cloth it well.
And this is what you get, it's not a kitcar, but they are trying for a sportscar ..........the best part is the front end.......
see:
www.weber-sportcars.com/gallery.html
Good lord! It looks like they left it out in the sun too long and it melted!
FNG said:
I'm going to be offline for at least a week while I move house, but I'll be commenting more on this and your "future models" thread when I get back. I've a few ideas that maybe we could develop.
looking forward to you posting in the thread............and supplying your chassis for the new locost mid-engine concept..........target build price 6k.....????????????.........
mtv dave said:
fuoriserie said:
spaximus said:
My biggest issue though is that we get a talented chassis designer who then won't spend the money on a designer to cloth it well.
And this is what you get, it's not a kitcar, but they are trying for a sportscar ..........the best part is the front end.......
see:
www.weber-sportcars.com/gallery.html
Good lord! It looks like they left it out in the sun too long and it melted!
Yep........... they showed it at the TOP MARQUEES in Montecarlo....... I wonder what was their feedback......
fuoriserie said:
FNG said:
I'm going to be offline for at least a week while I move house, but I'll be commenting more on this and your "future models" thread when I get back. I've a few ideas that maybe we could develop.
looking forward to you posting in the thread............and supplying your chassis for the new locost mid-engine concept..........target build price 6k.....????????????.........
I'm looking forward to building the fuoriserie/FNG collaboration.....
I should have finished the Fury by the end of say, July, so give me a few months to enjoy that - perhaps a spring 2008 launch? Oh, and mid engined V6 (Duratech perhaps) would be nice, otherwise I'm easily pleased
Mark Benson said:
fuoriserie said:
FNG said:
I'm going to be offline for at least a week while I move house, but I'll be commenting more on this and your "future models" thread when I get back. I've a few ideas that maybe we could develop.
looking forward to you posting in the thread............and supplying your chassis for the new locost mid-engine concept..........target build price 6k.....????????????.........
I'm looking forward to building the fuoriserie/FNG collaboration.....
I should have finished the Fury by the end of say, July, so give me a few months to enjoy that - perhaps a spring 2008 launch? Oh, and mid engined V6 (Duratech perhaps) would be nice, otherwise I'm easily pleased
Thanks Mark, you can check this thread then. and see what we can all come up with:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=389866
Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 11th May 14:57
...and getting back to Stones, her's what we were doing on Saturday night:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqffENrlMYw
Definate direction for the industry here, methinks
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqffENrlMYw
Definate direction for the industry here, methinks
neilrallying said:
...the clothing of the chassis appears to be the issue if this thread is right...
How would you suggest a new body shell should be made?
The alternatives seem to be:
Make a buck by hand and take off moulds.
(Lots of time and effort and mess but doable on a diy basis (see LaBala or Meerkat))
Get an aluminium body shell made and take moulds off this.
(body makers will be used to restoring classics so work will be good but you'll pay for it)
Make a 3D computer model and have it mackined from a block of resin coated foam.
(The finished buck appears from the solid block almost ready to take moulds off but you pay for machine time.[see dpcars website])
Did you get your buck machined on a 5 axis machine?
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