KITCAR DESIGN sketches/concepts year 2008-10
Discussion
After reading some of the feedback in the Stoneleigh 2007 thread, I thought of starting a dedicated new thread, concerning new designs, ideas and concepts for future kits.
What type of new kits should we all be looking forward to, in the next 3 years., what new niches should be explored, that have been left out by the current manufacturers?
It would be fun to have anyone interested in design, engineers or designers, enthusiasts and all, to post sketches, concepts or ideas, just for the fun of an interesting discussion and feedback
Propose new concepts and potential designs, for the kitcar industry of the year 2008-2010.
let's all have fun, and then who knows what might happen in the near future......
What type of new kits should we all be looking forward to, in the next 3 years., what new niches should be explored, that have been left out by the current manufacturers?
It would be fun to have anyone interested in design, engineers or designers, enthusiasts and all, to post sketches, concepts or ideas, just for the fun of an interesting discussion and feedback
Propose new concepts and potential designs, for the kitcar industry of the year 2008-2010.
let's all have fun, and then who knows what might happen in the near future......
Edited by fuoriserie on Thursday 10th May 20:48
I like the GD 70 spider kitcar, and thought of creating a similar concept using a GT40 replica chassis, but with a modern retro speedster shape ?
I think that a platform sharing kit chassis, could become in the future a great solution to limiting R&D development costs, and instead concentrate on variety of different designs.
I believe that an experienced and forward thinking kitcar compan,y could take up this business concept, and supply a complete rolling chassis, to anyone interested, and have others concentrate on creating their new designs.
The original creator of the chassis, could still have their own design, but it would give others the opprtunity to get in business, and still make a healthy profit from selling extra chassis.
You would create a bigger industry, by hiring more people, using the exhisting supplier base but creating new ones, and so on......does it make sense?
It would mean extra business for the manufacturer of the chassis, then others could concentrate on supplying different body shapes. It would really mean a step forward toward bespoke, one-off and limited manufacturing at the higher end, but also at the bottom end of the market.
This was what Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Fiat, Maserati and ferrari did in in 1960's, and can be done today by any Uk kitcar manufacturers.
This industry dissapeared in the late 60's, when these manufacturers decided not to supply their own chassis to the various carrozerias, that after a few years went bankrupt or ceased to trade, shrinking the car manufacturing and supplier base......
Just an idea, but would like to know what you all think of it? and if some enlightened kitcar manufacture will pick up on it.......
Her is my first concept based on this idea, a barchetta speedster based on an exhisting gt40 replica chassis....
I think that a platform sharing kit chassis, could become in the future a great solution to limiting R&D development costs, and instead concentrate on variety of different designs.
I believe that an experienced and forward thinking kitcar compan,y could take up this business concept, and supply a complete rolling chassis, to anyone interested, and have others concentrate on creating their new designs.
The original creator of the chassis, could still have their own design, but it would give others the opprtunity to get in business, and still make a healthy profit from selling extra chassis.
You would create a bigger industry, by hiring more people, using the exhisting supplier base but creating new ones, and so on......does it make sense?
It would mean extra business for the manufacturer of the chassis, then others could concentrate on supplying different body shapes. It would really mean a step forward toward bespoke, one-off and limited manufacturing at the higher end, but also at the bottom end of the market.
This was what Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Fiat, Maserati and ferrari did in in 1960's, and can be done today by any Uk kitcar manufacturers.
This industry dissapeared in the late 60's, when these manufacturers decided not to supply their own chassis to the various carrozerias, that after a few years went bankrupt or ceased to trade, shrinking the car manufacturing and supplier base......
Just an idea, but would like to know what you all think of it? and if some enlightened kitcar manufacture will pick up on it.......
Her is my first concept based on this idea, a barchetta speedster based on an exhisting gt40 replica chassis....
Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 11th May 09:24
I love the styling of this. We definitely need to talk!
Had been looking last year at a modernised retro roadster based on the Nomad (see www.stoic.co.uk/racing/picture12.htm) but couldn't make it work. I can't draw any more!
Regarding the chassis, putting together a central tub and modifying the rear end according to powertrain and suspension pickups is a sound idea (differences for cars with doors and cars without but otherwise little else needs to alter).
The cynic in me suggests that any rolling chassis offered for general sale will be copied rather than bought on an ongoing basis. I like the idea but manufacturers usually want a larger slice of the pie than just bodywork and trim. If there's profit to be made in making their own chassis, they will inevitably try to get a piece of it!
Had been looking last year at a modernised retro roadster based on the Nomad (see www.stoic.co.uk/racing/picture12.htm) but couldn't make it work. I can't draw any more!
Regarding the chassis, putting together a central tub and modifying the rear end according to powertrain and suspension pickups is a sound idea (differences for cars with doors and cars without but otherwise little else needs to alter).
The cynic in me suggests that any rolling chassis offered for general sale will be copied rather than bought on an ongoing basis. I like the idea but manufacturers usually want a larger slice of the pie than just bodywork and trim. If there's profit to be made in making their own chassis, they will inevitably try to get a piece of it!
FNG said:
I love the styling of this. We definitely need to talk!
Had been looking last year at a modernised retro roadster based on the Nomad (see www.stoic.co.uk/racing/picture12.htm) but couldn't make it work. I can't draw any more!
Regarding the chassis, putting together a central tub and modifying the rear end according to powertrain and suspension pickups is a sound idea (differences for cars with doors and cars without but otherwise little else needs to alter).
The cynic in me suggests that any rolling chassis offered for general sale will be copied rather than bought on an ongoing basis. I like the idea but manufacturers usually want a larger slice of the pie than just bodywork and trim. If there's profit to be made in making their own chassis, they will inevitably try to get a piece of it!
Had been looking last year at a modernised retro roadster based on the Nomad (see www.stoic.co.uk/racing/picture12.htm) but couldn't make it work. I can't draw any more!
Regarding the chassis, putting together a central tub and modifying the rear end according to powertrain and suspension pickups is a sound idea (differences for cars with doors and cars without but otherwise little else needs to alter).
The cynic in me suggests that any rolling chassis offered for general sale will be copied rather than bought on an ongoing basis. I like the idea but manufacturers usually want a larger slice of the pie than just bodywork and trim. If there's profit to be made in making their own chassis, they will inevitably try to get a piece of it!
Thanks.........what you see is a Gt40 replica chassis, with no modifications whatsoever, but you could apply this concept to any exhisting kitcar chassis.
I agree with you on the cynical remark, but if this industry wants to move forward a little , it needs to be more creative and develop other type of business concepts.
I do know of a few manufacturers that are doing this as an in-house concept, but maybe if approached, they could supply their chassis to a third party.
Who knows, maybe it might work......!
FNG said:
I Had been looking last year at a modernised retro roadster based on the Nomad (see www.stoic.co.uk/racing/picture12.htm) but couldn't make it work. I can't draw any more!
!
!
Very nice styling, and nice coupe ......
My own thoughts on design and production trends in the component car industry are that we should see more road-going single seaters. Just look at the fantastic new Sprint R from MK Engineering. Anyone old enough to remember all the alloy-bodied 'specials' built on tiny Austin Seven chassis in the fifties will know what I'm talking about - not expensive but wringing every ounce of performance from simple mechanicals.
Kit car driving, for most of us, is a selfish pastime and when you have two seats full of flesh performance is bound to suffer. With more and more track-days being made available around the country people want 'hyperformance' in compact, but still street-legal, forms. This comes best from small single seaters with high-revving bike power; lose the extra seats and concentrate on your own performance. It doesn't have to look like an old formula Ford - that's where talented designers come in - but it can still perform like one.
(Also, I'm fed up to the back teeth with whining teenagers saying "it's not fair, you never take me out in the kit car" when in actual fact I don't really want to!)
Kit car driving, for most of us, is a selfish pastime and when you have two seats full of flesh performance is bound to suffer. With more and more track-days being made available around the country people want 'hyperformance' in compact, but still street-legal, forms. This comes best from small single seaters with high-revving bike power; lose the extra seats and concentrate on your own performance. It doesn't have to look like an old formula Ford - that's where talented designers come in - but it can still perform like one.
(Also, I'm fed up to the back teeth with whining teenagers saying "it's not fair, you never take me out in the kit car" when in actual fact I don't really want to!)
I think one thing very much under-represented in the kit car scene is practicality.
We see in the kit car forums often enough, can I use x as a daily driver, how about y. Many want proper protection from the weather and basic useability from a kit rather than something purely suited for the occasional weekend drive when it's warm and sunny.
For some reason as soon as they become even slightly practical they start to look like something out of a 2nd grade wood work class.
We see in the kit car forums often enough, can I use x as a daily driver, how about y. Many want proper protection from the weather and basic useability from a kit rather than something purely suited for the occasional weekend drive when it's warm and sunny.
For some reason as soon as they become even slightly practical they start to look like something out of a 2nd grade wood work class.
bude david said:
My own thoughts on design and production trends in the component car industry are that we should see more road-going single seaters. Just look at the fantastic new Sprint R from MK Engineering. Anyone old enough to remember all the alloy-bodied 'specials' built on tiny Austin Seven chassis in the fifties will know what I'm talking about - not expensive but wringing every ounce of performance from simple mechanicals.
I think you're right, there is a growing niche for a very simple and basic single seater as a trackday car, the true toy just to have a blast, and have fun alone.........
Davi said:
I think one thing very much under-represented in the kit car scene is practicality.
We see in the kit car forums often enough, can I use x as a daily driver, how about y. Many want proper protection from the weather and basic useability from a kit rather than something purely suited for the occasional weekend drive when it's warm and sunny.
For some reason as soon as they become even slightly practical they start to look like something out of a 2nd grade wood work class.
We see in the kit car forums often enough, can I use x as a daily driver, how about y. Many want proper protection from the weather and basic useability from a kit rather than something purely suited for the occasional weekend drive when it's warm and sunny.
For some reason as soon as they become even slightly practical they start to look like something out of a 2nd grade wood work class.
This is very true, weather protection is very difficult to achieve at the level of a production car standard, but we can try to find other systems.
You just have to become more creative in developing interesting design solutions, and for a 2 seater sportscar design, nothing beats the Dax Kamala door setup.
A very simple shaped polycarbonate gullwing door, that I think works really well in a kit sportscar.... wonder why nobody has adopted the same idea..
Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 11th May 13:21
My idea of a mini suv based on the mid-engine Mev 4x4 kit chassis platform.
I could see this design, as a replacement body shape to the original Mev Trek, with a slightly lower and more coupe like stance, but still looking tough and rugged, ready for your everyday use...
A very rough sketch...
I could see this design, as a replacement body shape to the original Mev Trek, with a slightly lower and more coupe like stance, but still looking tough and rugged, ready for your everyday use...
A very rough sketch...
fuoriserie said:
Davi said:
I think one thing very much under-represented in the kit car scene is practicality.
We see in the kit car forums often enough, can I use x as a daily driver, how about y. Many want proper protection from the weather and basic useability from a kit rather than something purely suited for the occasional weekend drive when it's warm and sunny.
For some reason as soon as they become even slightly practical they start to look like something out of a 2nd grade wood work class.
We see in the kit car forums often enough, can I use x as a daily driver, how about y. Many want proper protection from the weather and basic useability from a kit rather than something purely suited for the occasional weekend drive when it's warm and sunny.
For some reason as soon as they become even slightly practical they start to look like something out of a 2nd grade wood work class.
This is very true, weather protection is very difficult to achieve at the level of a production car standard, but we can try to find other systems.
You just have to become more creative in developing interesting design solutions, and for a 2 seater sportscar design, nothing beats the Dax Kamala door setup.
A very simple shaped polycarbonate gullwing door, that I think works really well in a kit sportscar.... wonder why nobody has adopted the same idea..
see for myself, a poly glazed door instantly marks something out as a kit or a special - lacks refinement of a production vehicle, it's one of the only things I dislike on Ultimas. In terms of practicality nothing beats a wind up window, and I think there are plenty of solutions out there that prove that a wind up bit of glass needn't be either complex or ugly.
In fact - glass is a sticking point full stop on kits. The amount of times I'll see a beautifully built car that has wet-finger smoothed black mastic holding the screen in place, totally detracts from the vehicle.
Anyone wanting to see how to make a kit car have the feel of a production car should take a look and ask advice of Ricola - his phantom really is outstanding in most respects, but that in particular.
Day to day usability would be nice, or at least the ability to drive the thing somewhere for the day and not wonder if some oik will have dropped an ice cream/cigarette butt/rubbish into the car when you return. As someone said earlier in the thread, it can't be beyond the wit of man to make a kit with a coupe style body that doesn't look like it was designed by a 5 year old with crayons. A solid roof immediately makes the car look and feel more secure, the only problem being access and weatherproofing, since door fit is always a problem, maybe the Nova design wasn't so far fetched after all 
Glazing, as said is always an issue, but perhaps the side glazing from a mainstream production car could be utilised in an inventive way (see TVR and their upside down lights on Griff/Chim models) - for instance the Fury uses the windscreen from an Elan which is available through every windscreen supplier. Polycarbonate could be an option for the trackday end of the market.
And please - can we have the possibility of fitting a modern V6 (Ford, VW, Alfa etc), I want character and Vee engines give that (also differentiates it from the Elise, which as stated on the Stoneleigh thread could well be why we don't see affordable mid-engined kits more often). One of the modern generation V6s would be compact, reliable and since everything is FWD these days, come with gearboxes and driveshafts, plus in many cases ready to fit tuning parts.
I almost hesitate to say it too, but a storage space big enough to put a weekend bag would go a long way to convincing the ever-patient other half that the car would be a viable proposition for a trip down some interesting roads to a nice hotel for the weekend, so I could spend the day hooning and she could go to the spa or whatever it is they do in these places.
i'm sure there's more, but that's plenty to be getting on with
Glazing, as said is always an issue, but perhaps the side glazing from a mainstream production car could be utilised in an inventive way (see TVR and their upside down lights on Griff/Chim models) - for instance the Fury uses the windscreen from an Elan which is available through every windscreen supplier. Polycarbonate could be an option for the trackday end of the market.
And please - can we have the possibility of fitting a modern V6 (Ford, VW, Alfa etc), I want character and Vee engines give that (also differentiates it from the Elise, which as stated on the Stoneleigh thread could well be why we don't see affordable mid-engined kits more often). One of the modern generation V6s would be compact, reliable and since everything is FWD these days, come with gearboxes and driveshafts, plus in many cases ready to fit tuning parts.
I almost hesitate to say it too, but a storage space big enough to put a weekend bag would go a long way to convincing the ever-patient other half that the car would be a viable proposition for a trip down some interesting roads to a nice hotel for the weekend, so I could spend the day hooning and she could go to the spa or whatever it is they do in these places.
i'm sure there's more, but that's plenty to be getting on with
Davi said:
[quote=fuoriserie]see for myself, a poly glazed door instantly marks something out as a kit or a special - lacks refinement of a production vehicle, it's one of the only things I dislike on Ultimas. In terms of practicality nothing beats a wind up window, and I think there are plenty of solutions out there that prove that a wind up bit of glass needn't be either complex or ugly.
In fact - glass is a sticking point full stop on kits. The amount of times I'll see a beautifully built car that has wet-finger smoothed black mastic holding the screen in place, totally detracts from the vehicle.
Anyone wanting to see how to make a kit car have the feel of a production car should take a look and ask advice of Ricola - his phantom really is outstanding in most respects, but that in particular.
In fact - glass is a sticking point full stop on kits. The amount of times I'll see a beautifully built car that has wet-finger smoothed black mastic holding the screen in place, totally detracts from the vehicle.
Anyone wanting to see how to make a kit car have the feel of a production car should take a look and ask advice of Ricola - his phantom really is outstanding in most respects, but that in particular.
I agrre with your point for high end kitcars, just like the Phantom or the Ultima, Gt40's and a few others.
You pay a lot for the kit market, and you want the engineering, to back up the amount of money spent for it.
On the lower end of the market you would need something cheaper and cost effective, and that will give you a minimum of protection, and can be manufactured on a regular basis, by a small kitcar company.
I said polycarbonate because it was the cheapest material known to me, but maybe someone can create a glass alternative.
Something very interesting to look into, and develop further.
Edited by fuoriserie on Friday 11th May 16:16
one of a potential future engine, for kitcars in the year 2010
www.greencarcongress.com/2007/05/vws_new_90_kw_v.html#more
www.greencarcongress.com/2007/05/vws_new_90_kw_v.html#more
if the 600 firm orders are real, then lotus should do a follow up to the 340-R, or a kitcar manufacture tap into this market......
www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/225555/
www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/225555/
Mark Benson said:
Day to day usability would be nice, or at least the ability to drive the thing somewhere for the day and not wonder if some oik will have dropped an ice cream/cigarette butt/rubbish into the car when you return. As someone said earlier in the thread, it can't be beyond the wit of man to make a kit with a coupe style body that doesn't look like it was designed by a 5 year old with crayons. A solid roof immediately makes the car look and feel more secure, the only problem being access and weatherproofing, since door fit is always a problem, maybe the Nova design wasn't so far fetched after all
And please - can we have the possibility of fitting a modern V6 (Ford, VW, Alfa etc), I want character and Vee engines give that (also differentiates it from the Elise, which as stated on the Stoneleigh thread could well be why we don't see affordable mid-engined kits more often). One of the modern generation V6s would be compact, reliable and since everything is FWD these days, come with gearboxes and driveshafts, plus in many cases ready to fit tuning parts.
)
And please - can we have the possibility of fitting a modern V6 (Ford, VW, Alfa etc), I want character and Vee engines give that (also differentiates it from the Elise, which as stated on the Stoneleigh thread could well be why we don't see affordable mid-engined kits more often). One of the modern generation V6s would be compact, reliable and since everything is FWD these days, come with gearboxes and driveshafts, plus in many cases ready to fit tuning parts.
)
Mark
That is a very tough design brief to follow through, I think the engines wouldn't be that much of a problem, but the rest would be very tough to manufacture, for any small kitcar company.
That is why a few have followed the track car route, with all the new exo-skeleton designs.
I have a few ideas that maybe could work...............will post a few rough sketches soon........
fuoriserie said:
I agrre with your point for high end kitcars, just like the Phantom or the Ultima, Gt40's and a few others.
You pay a lot for the kit market, and you want the engineering, to back up the amount of money spent for it.
On the lower end of the market you would need something cheaper and cost effective, and that will give you a minimum of protection, and can be manufactured on a regular basis, by a small kitcar company.
I said polycarbonate because it was the cheapest material known to me, but maybe someone can create a glass alternative.
Something very interesting to look into, and develop further.
Taraglass certainly gave me prices for one off, e marked screens and side glass that tell me any looks toward poly as a way of aiming for the cheaper end of the market is false economy. The only reason I'm not looking to them at the moment is that as I wouldn't be producing my car in any volume (well, one to be precise
) I'd only ever need one screen until it broke - at which point I wouldn't want to have to wait for one to be shipped from australia! For even a small volume manufacturer I can see it becoming much more worthwhile. I know one of the cars screens at the stoneleigh show was developed by pilkington glass - I'd love to know how much that cost!!!
bude david said:
My own thoughts on design and production trends in the component car industry are that we should see more road-going single seaters. Just look at the fantastic new Sprint R from MK Engineering. Anyone old enough to remember all the alloy-bodied 'specials' built on tiny Austin Seven chassis in the fifties will know what I'm talking about - not expensive but wringing every ounce of performance from simple mechanicals.
I like the Mk-Sprint-r very much, but the complete build price, is a little high for a single seater....., it does make a great alternative to your Sports bike though!!!
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