So who buys Vixens? & What do they want?

[heightswitch]

Yes. car 2 is an S2 modified to have Cortina 1 lights.

Yes if the chassis is in good condition. no if it is rotten!

No. see the pics above. The engine is a bolt in mod. the gearbox needs a very simple couple of brackets moving. with a std Zetec 2.0 you probably get away with a rebuilt std diff in good condition for a time If you didn't practise standing starts at the traffic lights

As to being shot down in flames...its your car, you do what you like with it.

As for you last thought I would echo the statement above.
N

Edited by heightswitch on Tuesday 6th December 19:11

[RCK974X]

My original chassis had been bashed more then once and was welded in several places, rusty, and one weld split when I jacked the car up, after being 'modified' again by a Sierra .... Hmmm. time for a new chassis.

I ordered the new chassis with 'M' series diff carrier mounts after some discussion with DG (David Gerald). This way I can fit original Spitfire diff, or TR6, or 4HU.
Interestingly I reckon the new chassis is made of thicker tube then the original was.

I made the choice to mount the V6 on the original L4 mounts, and simply extended the gbox mounts for the type 9 (about 4 inches). This way my Vixen can go back to a 'standard' xflow, box and diff. It can also go up, probably to a V8.

So why is my car not 'original' ? How does one decide ?

I'm not surpised some enthusisasts are of the "it has to be totally original !" camp, and they are welcome to that view. They have a valid point after all.

But I agree with heightswitch, "It's your car..."

Even if decided to stay with a four pot, I would probably have looked at a zetec, or the Sierra 2l Twin cam, as more modern and more economical. The V6 2.8 was because I had one, and a box too, and found a TR6 diff really cheap, so it was an easy choice for me.

[TVR_owner]

RCK974X said:

So why is my car not 'original' ? How does one decide ?

I'm not surpised some enthusisasts are of the "it has to be totally original !" camp, and they are welcome to that view. They have a valid point after all.

But I agree with heightswitch, "It's your car..."

Enthusiasts have different views, something displayed quite well by this forum.

Why is your car not original and how does one decide? Wrong engine and a modified replacement chassis are good indicators.

Very few 60's or 70's TVRs are as they left the factory, or as they should have left the factory. (Most folks view of original). For some reason peolpe modify these cars rather than rebuild to original - some to improve reliability, some to be different, but modify rather than restore to original seems to be the way to go - personally, I find that suprising as in standard form, (with the possible exception of the straight 6 engined cars) they worked well.
As Neil says though, it is your car, do with it as you will.

Values? Minefield...

I'd love to see a nice well restored to orginal spec Vixen for sale. I would be prepared to pay very good money for it too. I'm not interested in a car that just runs and gets an MOT each year and is what I consider a running restoration case, but just as "its your car, do with it as you will", it's my money and I'll spend it as I will, and like many potential owners, I see cars for sale from a very different stand-point to the vendor.

I have not seen a well restored Vixen (to an original specification) advertised for many many years. Until we do and it sells well, we won't know what the top end prices are for a Vixen.

Edited by TVR_owner on Wednesday 7th December 12:14

[Hullygully]

Hmmmmmm........ wasn't there a Vixen S3 1300 (with 1500 installed and original engine available) restored to a very high standard as per original spec.... even down to the original colour that it wore to the motor show....? I seem to recall that was just a few weeks ago. Of course, I might be wrong about this...

[ATE399J]

Hullygully said:

........ (with 1500 installed .......)...

Aaahh.. There you have it... WITH A 1500 INSTALLED That means it's not original!!! It's only valuable if it has the original Triumph 1296cc in it .

[RCK974X]

TVR_owner said:

... Why is your car not original and how does one decide? Wrong engine and a modified replacement chassis are good indicators.....

Well, I can't argue about the engine, but a chassis modded only with an 'M' carrier and longer gbox mounts ?? I think that's a bit picky....

But again, you're welcome to that opinion and I respect it.
It's what makes the debate more fun...

[TVR_owner]

RCK974X said:

But again, you're welcome to that opinion and I respect it.
It's what makes the debate more fun...

Indeed, were're all diferent. The green Vixen looks nice and appears to be well restored, not the car for me - as noted above, wrong engine, but as I'm "picky" there are also a host of other things that make the car wrong for me (interior etc).

So who buys Vixens? - folk who know what they want are and bothered about ending up with the genuine article - restored or otherwise, and some who want something called a Vixen and aren't too bothered who's played with it to make it what they wanted. Fairly big range, no rights, no wrongs.

Edited by TVR_owner on Thursday 8th December 06:01

[RCK974X]

TVR_owner said:

Indeed, were're all diferent. The green Vixen looks nice and appears to be well restored, not the car for me - as noted above, wrong engine, but as I'm "picky" there are also a host of other things that make the car wrong for me (interior etc).

So who buys Vixens? - folk who know what they want are and bothered about ending up with the genuine article - restored or otherwise, and some who want something called a Vixen and aren't too bothered who's played with it to make it what they wanted. Fairly big range, no rights, no wrongs.

I should think it's VERY hard to get all the interior completely original too, especially some of the material types....

"something called a Vixen" - as I've got my V6, I'm probably going to start calling it a 'Tuscan V6'
and make the crime even worse ..

[TVR_owner]

RCK974X said:

I should think it's VERY hard to get all the interior completely original too, especially some of the material types....

"something called a Vixen" - as I've got my V6, I'm probably going to start calling it a 'Tuscan V6'
and make the crime even worse ..

My point was, the majority of folk that buy them, dont know if they are modified or as they left the factory.

Most folk don't care either - does it matter?

[alfa-chris]

TVR_owner said:

Why is your car not original and how does one decide? Wrong engine and a modified replacement chassis are good indicators.

good point, but how about a replacement chassis that is not visibly modified? How about replacement chassis at all?

Is a car not original if it has a raplacement chassis because the original one was total crap?
Is it "better" to take the original chassis and replace anything but the upper backbone and say "it is a restored original chassis" ? Better built a new chassis with some parts of the original one an say the same? Or better built a new one, don´t touch the original one and mount it to the garage-wall as decoration? Just in case you sell the car, you can sell a restored car with the original chassis standing besides it.

Any opinions?!

[Moto]

alfa-chris said:

Is a car not original if it has a raplacement chassis because the original one was total crap?
!

Interesting point as probably 50% of Vixens have had a rollover bar fitted. I presume this would require a chassis mod?

[TVR_owner]

alfa-chris said:

good point, but how about a replacement chassis that is not visibly modified? How about replacement chassis at all?

Is a car not original if it has a raplacement chassis because the original one was total crap?
Is it "better" to take the original chassis and replace anything but the upper backbone and say "it is a restored original chassis" ? Better built a new chassis with some parts of the original one an say the same? Or better built a new one, don´t touch the original one and mount it to the garage-wall as decoration? Just in case you sell the car, you can sell a restored car with the original chassis standing besides it.

Any opinions?!

Just an opinion

Two trains of thought about orginality. The first is, it's as it left the factory, the second, it's as it should have left the factory.

If its modified in any way, then it not orginal - that should take absolutely no understanding. If it left the factory with cloth trim, leather was an option and you restored a car replacing with leather...another can of worms.

Is a car not original if it has a raplacement chassis because the original one was total crap? Fits one description of originality, not the other.


Is it "better" to take the original chassis and replace anything but the upper backbone and say "it is a restored original chassis" ? Again, fits one description of originality, not the other.


Better built a new chassis with some parts of the original one an say the same? Or better built a new one, don´t touch the original one and mount it to the garage-wall as decoration? Just in case you sell the car, you can sell a restored car with the original chassis standing besides it. Good point. It if you look at historic race cars that have required repair to original chassis, any reputable restorer will return the damaged parts and they will stay with the car to help support the provenance.

Caveat - it's your car, do with it as you wish..

Bottom line, the real anal enthusiasts will look for a completely original car, as it left the factory. Next in the line would be as it should have left the factory, and next, as it could have left the factory.

Never ever built to that spec but "improved" is good enough for most enthusiasts. Couple that with the fact that TVRs from the late 60s early 70s are still not chased by die hard collectors that would demand the first description and no other...is it so much of an issue?

Values are all over the place, and always will be untill the market has a place for 100 point concours TVRs of this era, and or for time warp originals.

Edited by TVR_owner on Friday 9th December 11:30

[nwarner]

TVR_owner said:

My point was, the majority of folk that buy them, dont know if they are modified or as they left the factory.

Most folk don't care either - does it matter?

Don't forget that a lot of them left the factory as a kit and were built by the new owner to their requirements. The interior of mine, especially the dash, is not like any others I've seen. I've got an early picture of the interior showing the dash and it's the layout is the same as it is now. I have however covered over the mahogony veneer with black vinyl.

Regards

Nige

[alfa-chris]

TVR_owner said:

Better built a new chassis with some parts of the original one an say the same? Or better built a new one, don´t touch the original one and mount it to the garage-wall as decoration? Just in case you sell the car, you can sell a restored car with the original chassis standing besides it. Good point. It if you look at historic race cars that have required repair to original chassis, any reputable restorer will return the damaged parts and they will stay with the car to help support the provenance.

In the end, that is the question I was thinking about a few weeks ago regarding the restoration of my Grantura. I really wanted to restore the original chassis but after sandblasting it figured out to be much worse than I thought at the beginning. Therefore we decided to replace it but to keep the chassis as a part to the car because it belongs to its history.

[vixen1700]

There used to be a bloke a few years back who went along to the Epping TVR meets and he had a completely standard Vixen, I started it up one night and it sounded like a Fiesta.

[TVR_owner]

nwarner said:

Don't forget that a lot of them left the factory as a kit and were built by the new owner to their requirements. The interior of mine, especially the dash, is not like any others I've seen. I've got an early picture of the interior showing the dash and it's the layout is the same as it is now. I have however covered over the mahogony veneer with black vinyl.

Regards

Nige

Define a Kit No wheels fitted, but supplied, to avoid taxation??

[nwarner]

I always thought that there was a lot more to do than just bolting on the wheels but of course I could be wrong.

[TVR_owner]

nwarner said:

I always thought that there was a lot more to do than just bolting on the wheels but of course I could be wrong.

You and me both

[Adrian@]

But then there was not much more to what you had to do to put a kit on the road...Nigel surely the canted dash would be a owner change, as the later style radios were much deeper......they either added a trimmed surround with the radio sticking out or canted the dash.
Adrian@

[nwarner]

Adrian

You are most likely correct, though the radio is pictured bolted under the glove box.

Poor quality picture of dash from 1980. (I thought it was earlier)