Anyone own my old Grantura?
Discussion
greymrj said:
wobbly wheels as per this advert were fitted.
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/serel/Saleswanted.htm
I can confirm that LSN950 is or was in the US some years ago.http://people.zeelandnet.nl/serel/Saleswanted.htm
I was in contact with the owner when he asked me if this car might be the "Coffe bean". I can not remember the owners name and address but I don't believe it was Jim Duncan but he might know this guy. Alex Saidel might know more about it as well.
As the car has an interesting rack and pinion steering I have put a picture of this steering in my story on my website.
K.W.
I am Sharman who posted on THF regarding Coffee Bean. It was always entered under Averil's name as I suspect that Bunty (a director and investor in TVR) used it as a means of getting some return on his money. Works driver was Colin Escott. Somewhere ( I'll need to dig them out) I have a fairly complete list of early chassis numbers obtained from the originators of the Jomar which morphed into the Grantura Mk 1.
My car also appears in Filby's first book but is painted white (and it had a blue stripe a la Briggs Cunningham stable cars). When it came from the works it was BRG (I am nothing if not patriotic!!). B type engine full race Downton.
As to price, a few years ago I bought a full race Mk 1 from Canada for $US17000 and repatriated it. It had a Canadian passport but was so far from homologation as to be laughable. I might have been able to persuade the MSA that OK Ford Prefect LHD steering boxes are unobtainable so I put rack& pinion on but the other things were a no no. I sold it to Italy and last year it was advertised with a FULL HOMOLAGATION (but completely unchanged) for £33000. Chassis number which was a B had been changed to a C.
The documentation with that car included a mention of TDL933, and there was repaired damage on it in appropriate places.
My car also appears in Filby's first book but is painted white (and it had a blue stripe a la Briggs Cunningham stable cars). When it came from the works it was BRG (I am nothing if not patriotic!!). B type engine full race Downton.
As to price, a few years ago I bought a full race Mk 1 from Canada for $US17000 and repatriated it. It had a Canadian passport but was so far from homologation as to be laughable. I might have been able to persuade the MSA that OK Ford Prefect LHD steering boxes are unobtainable so I put rack& pinion on but the other things were a no no. I sold it to Italy and last year it was advertised with a FULL HOMOLAGATION (but completely unchanged) for £33000. Chassis number which was a B had been changed to a C.
The documentation with that car included a mention of TDL933, and there was repaired damage on it in appropriate places.
Hi Klaus, the photo you have posted of LSN950 is very interesting. Notice the three holes in the web to the left hand chassis tube, is that non-standard? Remember that I had no reason to think at the time that 'my' Grantura was in any way different. It was TVR, it was cheap, it needed work that I could handle, and it was fun between getting engaged and the first child putting pay to play! I think there will be other older PH members who know what I mean. My Grantura did have those holes, in several places. I dont think they would have done that much for weight saving.
Moreover my Grantura did have rack and pinnion steering, someone told me it looked like a Jaguar rack but I have no reason to support that. It was a 'quick rack' certainly compared to anything else I had driven.
I suppose I might as well let another detail out! My car had finned drums, they were big drums and I know we had some difficulty finding shoes until a mate in the car factor trade found that some shoes from a Daimler Sovereign (they were introduced in 66 and I would have been looking for shoes about 69/70) would fit. So that would probably give the size of the drums. I know it stopped so well that the old fashioned MOT brake tester (that went on the floor of the car) went to the top of the scale and actually turned over....nearly put the tester through the screen!
Are there any pictures of 'coffee bean' out there? At this moment I do not think they are the same car as I had a good deal of paint off it as I had started to prep it for respray (when the first child was conceived!).
Rather than look at LSN950 it might be easier for me to see Coffee bean (which presumably was well photographed) and see if there are issues which distinguish them?
Moreover my Grantura did have rack and pinnion steering, someone told me it looked like a Jaguar rack but I have no reason to support that. It was a 'quick rack' certainly compared to anything else I had driven.
I suppose I might as well let another detail out! My car had finned drums, they were big drums and I know we had some difficulty finding shoes until a mate in the car factor trade found that some shoes from a Daimler Sovereign (they were introduced in 66 and I would have been looking for shoes about 69/70) would fit. So that would probably give the size of the drums. I know it stopped so well that the old fashioned MOT brake tester (that went on the floor of the car) went to the top of the scale and actually turned over....nearly put the tester through the screen!
Are there any pictures of 'coffee bean' out there? At this moment I do not think they are the same car as I had a good deal of paint off it as I had started to prep it for respray (when the first child was conceived!).
Rather than look at LSN950 it might be easier for me to see Coffee bean (which presumably was well photographed) and see if there are issues which distinguish them?
i dont suppose you remember the ch/no of TDL 933 , its one i have never been able to identify
TDL933 said:
I am Sharman who posted on THF regarding Coffee Bean. It was always entered under Averil's name as I suspect that Bunty (a director and investor in TVR) used it as a means of getting some return on his money. Works driver was Colin Escott. Somewhere ( I'll need to dig them out) I have a fairly complete list of early chassis numbers obtained from the originators of the Jomar which morphed into the Grantura Mk 1.
My car also appears in Filby's first book but is painted white (and it had a blue stripe a la Briggs Cunningham stable cars). When it came from the works it was BRG (I am nothing if not patriotic!!). B type engine full race Downton.
As to price, a few years ago I bought a full race Mk 1 from Canada for $US17000 and repatriated it. It had a Canadian passport but was so far from homologation as to be laughable. I might have been able to persuade the MSA that OK Ford Prefect LHD steering boxes are unobtainable so I put rack& pinion on but the other things were a no no. I sold it to Italy and last year it was advertised with a FULL HOMOLAGATION (but completely unchanged) for £33000. Chassis number which was a B had been changed to a C.
The documentation with that car included a mention of TDL933, and there was repaired damage on it in appropriate places.
My car also appears in Filby's first book but is painted white (and it had a blue stripe a la Briggs Cunningham stable cars). When it came from the works it was BRG (I am nothing if not patriotic!!). B type engine full race Downton.
As to price, a few years ago I bought a full race Mk 1 from Canada for $US17000 and repatriated it. It had a Canadian passport but was so far from homologation as to be laughable. I might have been able to persuade the MSA that OK Ford Prefect LHD steering boxes are unobtainable so I put rack& pinion on but the other things were a no no. I sold it to Italy and last year it was advertised with a FULL HOMOLAGATION (but completely unchanged) for £33000. Chassis number which was a B had been changed to a C.
The documentation with that car included a mention of TDL933, and there was repaired damage on it in appropriate places.
TDL933 has wires (although I suppose that could have been changed later) but it also has 'nostrils' and small mods to the front 'bumpers'. Somehow the grill doesnt look quite right either. I dont think that could have become LSN950.
4040RE however has the right wheels. However I think I would have known very well if there had been paint that dark underneath. Remember that working on this g.r.p. you can judge the amount of light coming through and such a dark paint (assuming the photo gives anything like a good impression)would surely have made the g.r.p. almost opaque, which it wasnt! Unfortunately the picture of 4040RE isnt clear enough to show enough distinctive detail.
4040RE however has the right wheels. However I think I would have known very well if there had been paint that dark underneath. Remember that working on this g.r.p. you can judge the amount of light coming through and such a dark paint (assuming the photo gives anything like a good impression)would surely have made the g.r.p. almost opaque, which it wasnt! Unfortunately the picture of 4040RE isnt clear enough to show enough distinctive detail.
RobMk2a said:
Thank you for posting, did you race your MK1 in period.
If you get time to dig out the chassis list it would be interesting to see if LSN 950 is actually Coffee Bean. I understand it was sold in 2012, I assume the TVRCC of America will know the current owner.
Rob
That photograph of "Coffee Bean most is certainly the second emanation as we always joked that the first was so low that it was impossible to get the lavatory paper which they must have used to paint the colour on ( it was a particularly vile diarrhoea brown which Bunty claimed was café au lait) would not have gone between the chassis and the earth
Richard, - sorry for confusion but they are two different cars. We should probably start a separate thread on John's car.
With regards to ride height of the original Coffee Bean I understand my old Grantura Mk2a 248 TMB was raced at sometime and the ride height was so low I couldn't get a jack under the car. ( you had to drive on to a ramp to get any height). We eventually removed the silencer box for extra clearance. In hind sight it would have been easier to adjust the suspension.
Rob
With regards to ride height of the original Coffee Bean I understand my old Grantura Mk2a 248 TMB was raced at sometime and the ride height was so low I couldn't get a jack under the car. ( you had to drive on to a ramp to get any height). We eventually removed the silencer box for extra clearance. In hind sight it would have been easier to adjust the suspension.
Rob
greymrj said:
I have just found the TVR brochure I referred to above. It appears to have originated in 1988 and is a catalogue of the history of TVR, referred to as 'Handcrafted British Sports cars since 1949', coincidentally it appears to have been part of the launch material for the S type and my current car is an S1. On the inside front page it shows a green 1963 Grantura 2A. That is the car I was referring to and it was owned by a Mr Trevor Crawley of Newcastle (Staffs) and was registered 688 GFR.
Hiya I'm just posting through my daughters login, it's Trevor from staffs, yes I'm still running 688GFR, badge is still looking good! Thanks again. Glad your getting response in relation to your old car.It runs in the family my daughter runs a chimaera 450, so we may bump it you again some day,
All the best Trev.
greymrj said:
I have just found the TVR brochure I referred to above. It appears to have originated in 1988 and is a catalogue of the history of TVR, referred to as 'Handcrafted British Sports cars since 1949', coincidentally it appears to have been part of the launch material for the S type and my current car is an S1. On the inside front page it shows a green 1963 Grantura 2A. That is the car I was referring to and it was owned by a Mr Trevor Crawley of Newcastle (Staffs) and was registered 688 GFR.
Hiya I'm just posting through my daughters login, it's Trevor from staffs, yes I'm still running 688GFR, badge is still looking good! Thanks again. Glad your getting response in relation to your old car.It runs in the family my daughter runs a chimaera 450, so we may bump it you again some day,
All the best Trev.
greymrj said:
Hi Klaus, the photo you have posted of LSN950 is very interesting. Notice the three holes in the web to the left hand chassis tube, is that non-standard? Remember that I had no reason to think at the time that 'my' Grantura was in any way different. It was TVR, it was cheap, it needed work that I could handle, and it was fun between getting engaged and the first child putting pay to play! I think there will be other older PH members who know what I mean. My Grantura did have those holes, in several places. I dont think they would have done that much for weight saving.
Moreover my Grantura did have rack and pinnion steering, someone told me it looked like a Jaguar rack but I have no reason to support that. It was a 'quick rack' certainly compared to anything else I had driven.
I suppose I might as well let another detail out! My car had finned drums, they were big drums and I know we had some difficulty finding shoes until a mate in the car factor trade found that some shoes from a Daimler Sovereign (they were introduced in 66 and I would have been looking for shoes about 69/70) would fit. So that would probably give the size of the drums. I know it stopped so well that the old fashioned MOT brake tester (that went on the floor of the car) went to the top of the scale and actually turned over....nearly put the tester through the screen!
Are there any pictures of 'coffee bean' out there? At this moment I do not think they are the same car as I had a good deal of paint off it as I had started to prep it for respray (when the first child was conceived!).
Rather than look at LSN950 it might be easier for me to see Coffee bean (which presumably was well photographed) and see if there are issues which distinguish them?
The holes in the gussets and in the center between the cross tubes where "lightweigt options" as well was the rack and pinion steering. So far I have not seen two identical rack and pinion steering systems so I do not have an idea what the works option looked alike. The alfin brake drums where of the Austin Healey design.Moreover my Grantura did have rack and pinnion steering, someone told me it looked like a Jaguar rack but I have no reason to support that. It was a 'quick rack' certainly compared to anything else I had driven.
I suppose I might as well let another detail out! My car had finned drums, they were big drums and I know we had some difficulty finding shoes until a mate in the car factor trade found that some shoes from a Daimler Sovereign (they were introduced in 66 and I would have been looking for shoes about 69/70) would fit. So that would probably give the size of the drums. I know it stopped so well that the old fashioned MOT brake tester (that went on the floor of the car) went to the top of the scale and actually turned over....nearly put the tester through the screen!
Are there any pictures of 'coffee bean' out there? At this moment I do not think they are the same car as I had a good deal of paint off it as I had started to prep it for respray (when the first child was conceived!).
Rather than look at LSN950 it might be easier for me to see Coffee bean (which presumably was well photographed) and see if there are issues which distinguish them?
I also remember that in Beaulieu I once have bought some scrap parts of a TVR Grantura and I was told that they came of a car of a restoration company in Leek. It might be possible that it was the coffee bean. This is no joke.
K.W.
Monsun said:
Although I'm more M-series than Pre-M, I've been following this thread with interest.
I have a copy of TVRCC Sprint magazine for June 1993 in which there is a photo of LSN 950. The photo is of relatively poor quality and is a rear-view taken in a garage and is not dissimilar to that on page 1, except that it is in black and white.
The interesting bit is in the blurb that was written by Paul Shrimpton who was RO for the Dorset region of TVRCC at the time. It is as follows - 'I have received an interesting letter from the US of A from Jim Duncan, 313 Woodward, Rochester, Michigan. Jim owns the car in the photo and thinks it is the Coffee Bean referred to in Peter Filby's book [Success Against The Odds]. There is brown paint under the yellow and the chassis has been extensively lightened. There is no chassis plate on the vehicle, but its registration was LSN 950.' Unfortunately as far as I can see there is no feedback in subsequent issues.
According to Peter Filby's most recent book on the early TVRs there were actually two Coffee Beans, both bought by Bunty Scott-Moncrieff and mostly raced by his wife Averil. The first car appeared in 1959 but was written off when being guest-driven on a Scottish hill climb. The second Coffee Bean was built in 1960 so there is a possibility that this car 'might' be LSN 950?
Peter
Its funny when following a forum thread that a name suddenly jumps out at you. Jim Duncan.I have a copy of TVRCC Sprint magazine for June 1993 in which there is a photo of LSN 950. The photo is of relatively poor quality and is a rear-view taken in a garage and is not dissimilar to that on page 1, except that it is in black and white.
The interesting bit is in the blurb that was written by Paul Shrimpton who was RO for the Dorset region of TVRCC at the time. It is as follows - 'I have received an interesting letter from the US of A from Jim Duncan, 313 Woodward, Rochester, Michigan. Jim owns the car in the photo and thinks it is the Coffee Bean referred to in Peter Filby's book [Success Against The Odds]. There is brown paint under the yellow and the chassis has been extensively lightened. There is no chassis plate on the vehicle, but its registration was LSN 950.' Unfortunately as far as I can see there is no feedback in subsequent issues.
According to Peter Filby's most recent book on the early TVRs there were actually two Coffee Beans, both bought by Bunty Scott-Moncrieff and mostly raced by his wife Averil. The first car appeared in 1959 but was written off when being guest-driven on a Scottish hill climb. The second Coffee Bean was built in 1960 so there is a possibility that this car 'might' be LSN 950?
Peter
I have had this lead for years of an Rochdale Olympic in Michigan which I have no history of.
Rochdale Olympic Phase 1. Chassis No 1784. For sale advert, 1987 in USA Kitcar magazine.
Jim Duncan, Northville, Detroit, Michigan, USA. 313-349-9056.
So if anyone finds contact details for Jim please send me a a PM/e-mail from my profile TSP3.
Kind regards
Tony Stanton, Compiler of the Rochdale Olympic History Archives.
RobMk2a said:
Klaus,
Do you think the Beaulieu parts are from the first (crashed) Coffee Bean?
Does anyone have a record of the chassis number of the first car.
Rob
Rob,Do you think the Beaulieu parts are from the first (crashed) Coffee Bean?
Does anyone have a record of the chassis number of the first car.
Rob
Edited by RobMk2a on Thursday 23 October 16:03
it might be so but it is only an idea. I have asked that guy that time but he mentioned that the parts came from his friend who was just a young lad working for this company. I would say the chance is 50:50 and worth investigating in this direction. There must be someone in the Moncrieff family or company who knows more, allthough it was about 20 years ago.
K.W.
I assume Bunty and Averil are now long gone (I remember both attending VSCC Prescott years ago) - however a quick search shows Humphrey their son still lives at Basford Hall. He may have some information if anyone knows him. As an aside there an excellent Pathe news clip of their Vintsge Rolls Royces.
Also I understand that Gregor Fisken (Classic car dealer and racer) worked with Bunty after he left school..
Rob
Also I understand that Gregor Fisken (Classic car dealer and racer) worked with Bunty after he left school..
Rob
[quote=RobMk2a]
Coffee Bean from Philby's The Early Years. It appears to be registered 4040RE ? So I'm not sure if it is photo of the first or second Coffee Bean. There are other photos in the book but it is quite difficult to make out details,
Rob
[/quo
The 1st Coffee Bean was registered 4040RE
Coffee Bean from Philby's The Early Years. It appears to be registered 4040RE ? So I'm not sure if it is photo of the first or second Coffee Bean. There are other photos in the book but it is quite difficult to make out details,
Rob
[/quoThe 1st Coffee Bean was registered 4040RE
Anyone know if the second Coffee Bean had the same or different registration number.
(I'm guessing but could keeping the number be a way of avoiding purchase tax on the new car). I understand from Philby's book that some of the early cars may have been rebuilt by the factory and given new identities.
Rob
(I'm guessing but could keeping the number be a way of avoiding purchase tax on the new car). I understand from Philby's book that some of the early cars may have been rebuilt by the factory and given new identities.
Rob
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