Hill Climbing/Sprinting, anyone with experience?
Discussion
Evening All,
I've been looking at getting a weekend toy for a while now and am struggling to find something that fits the bill. Off the back of this I've started to look at getting something just for trackdays which has then evolved into an interest in hillclimbing/sprinting.
Has anyone on here got any experience in either discipline they would care to share and possibly thoughts on a good starter car?
Looking at a budget of about £5k initially to cover the car, mods and kit as don't want too sink too much in and find out it's not for me or I just don't have the time for it I'd hoped.
I've got access to a car transporter/trailer and my current car can act as the tow vehicle quite happily so that part is covered, and I'll be involving a mate or two and my FIL who between them have access to every tool known to man and many years of spannering experience.
Preference would be RWD and at 6.4" smaller cars like MX-5'/MR2 unfortunately aren't viable as I don't fit. I was thinking along the lines of an E46 330i with the interior stripped, race seats, harnesses, suspension/brake/Tyre upgrade?
Any thoughts welcome.
I've been looking at getting a weekend toy for a while now and am struggling to find something that fits the bill. Off the back of this I've started to look at getting something just for trackdays which has then evolved into an interest in hillclimbing/sprinting.
Has anyone on here got any experience in either discipline they would care to share and possibly thoughts on a good starter car?
Looking at a budget of about £5k initially to cover the car, mods and kit as don't want too sink too much in and find out it's not for me or I just don't have the time for it I'd hoped.
I've got access to a car transporter/trailer and my current car can act as the tow vehicle quite happily so that part is covered, and I'll be involving a mate or two and my FIL who between them have access to every tool known to man and many years of spannering experience.
Preference would be RWD and at 6.4" smaller cars like MX-5'/MR2 unfortunately aren't viable as I don't fit. I was thinking along the lines of an E46 330i with the interior stripped, race seats, harnesses, suspension/brake/Tyre upgrade?
Any thoughts welcome.
Unless it has a LSD, a rwd car isn't going to be terribly great.
Clio 182/197 will be cheaper and (in the real word) quicker. Plus the brakes / suspension are already pretty sorted from the factory.
Take a look at autosolos as well. They're similar to autotests, but more open and all forward. Plus you can take any car you like... I do it regular, and a whole day out costs £10 fee + £10-20 fuel.
Here's a video from our club!
https://www.facebook.com/ap.parky/videos/g.3106514...
Clio 182/197 will be cheaper and (in the real word) quicker. Plus the brakes / suspension are already pretty sorted from the factory.
Take a look at autosolos as well. They're similar to autotests, but more open and all forward. Plus you can take any car you like... I do it regular, and a whole day out costs £10 fee + £10-20 fuel.
Here's a video from our club!
https://www.facebook.com/ap.parky/videos/g.3106514...
The jury seems ot be out on the LSD question, I've read a few people who suggest they are essential while others have run cars without them and have no complaints. Will have to research further.
Unfortunately I don't fit in the 182/197 with the stock seats so not sure if I'd manage it with a helmet on even if the seat was a bit lower.
Had one of these back in 99 so could be tempted again, although would have to up the budget a bit possibly..
Thnaks for the links, will definitely check them out.
Unfortunately I don't fit in the 182/197 with the stock seats so not sure if I'd manage it with a helmet on even if the seat was a bit lower.
Had one of these back in 99 so could be tempted again, although would have to up the budget a bit possibly..
Thnaks for the links, will definitely check them out.
If you strip a 330 you will end up in modified class, it won't be competitive as it'll be too heavy.
Best to go along to a few meets and chat to some drivers (we're generally a friendly bunch!), failing that find your local club results online & see what cars are competing/winning/doing well.
Down in the SW the field is quite varied but we have different classes to anybody else, something I didn't realise when i bought my 172 Cup.
Best to go along to a few meets and chat to some drivers (we're generally a friendly bunch!), failing that find your local club results online & see what cars are competing/winning/doing well.
Down in the SW the field is quite varied but we have different classes to anybody else, something I didn't realise when i bought my 172 Cup.
Well, you did say any thoughts welcome...
Start of in a totally standard car (ok, maybe with pads changed). In other words, your road car. Then buy whatever you fancy, but stay in the road car class. I did one in a diesel skoda Yeti once! See if you like it, before you spend money. Once you get into the 'stripped, caged' etc world, you start spending money, lots of it (all relative I know). Spend your initial cash on some instruction, and it will do wonders.
Height wise, and also considering your preference for rwd, see if you fit into a Porsche 924S or 944. Plenty available from the various series (and I'm talking post 'first try' here). I'm 6ft and there was acres of space even with a helmet on in mine.
Start of in a totally standard car (ok, maybe with pads changed). In other words, your road car. Then buy whatever you fancy, but stay in the road car class. I did one in a diesel skoda Yeti once! See if you like it, before you spend money. Once you get into the 'stripped, caged' etc world, you start spending money, lots of it (all relative I know). Spend your initial cash on some instruction, and it will do wonders.
Height wise, and also considering your preference for rwd, see if you fit into a Porsche 924S or 944. Plenty available from the various series (and I'm talking post 'first try' here). I'm 6ft and there was acres of space even with a helmet on in mine.
I'm based 5 minutes from Curborough Sprint Track so plan on going along next time there is a meet on and I'm free to get a feel for how it works.
TBH I'm not fussed about being competitive, I'd be doing it purely for the enjoyment factor and as an alternative to just doing standard track days.
My road car is a company A6 Avant so in no way suitable and would definitely need to buy something. The whole build part of the experience is also hugely appealing so not convinced i would want to buy a ready made car, although I'm sure it would work out considerably cheaper to do so in the long run.
TBH I'm not fussed about being competitive, I'd be doing it purely for the enjoyment factor and as an alternative to just doing standard track days.
My road car is a company A6 Avant so in no way suitable and would definitely need to buy something. The whole build part of the experience is also hugely appealing so not convinced i would want to buy a ready made car, although I'm sure it would work out considerably cheaper to do so in the long run.
I have sprinted for 4 years now and also compete in Autosolos.
As for the sprints it all depends on what class you want to run in. Class A1 up to 1600cc on standard road tyres, A2 up to 2000cc on standard road tyres or using list 1a or 1b tyres classes A3 up to 1600cc or A4 up to 2300cc.
i used to run a mk1 Eunos in A1 which was great fun but it just was not powerful enough and would lose by the narrowest of margins to the Citreon Saxos.
I moved into A2 with a Mazda RX8 PZ and that was a class winner straight out of the box. In the 3 1/2 years i have owned it i have only been beaten twice, both times i was beaten it was by a honda integrated type R DC2. The driver is pretty handy too. He had the advantage of having been to Goodwood a few times before whereas i had never even been round the circuit. Since then i have beaten him around Goodwood.
Class A2 Seems to be the most popular and at our events can sometimes have between 8 and 20 cars.
The Clios do well too but struggle getting the power down through the front wheels.
I will be out at North Weald Airfield on the 30th of this month in my Clio cup. I didn't want to tax the RX for the past month just for one race, so i thought i would see what i can do on the clio.
My race suit i managed to get from eBay after is was reposed by one of these storage comapanies and my helmet is a cheap one with SNELL 2010 certification. Don't forget you will also need gloves.
The suggestion of a BMW 330 is a waste of time as you jump into class A5 with the likes of porsche GT3 RS etc.
I have attached some regs for this months event which you can have a read through, if you want some more info i am happy to answer any questions.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6l0urTaRWX5SEZaN...
As for the sprints it all depends on what class you want to run in. Class A1 up to 1600cc on standard road tyres, A2 up to 2000cc on standard road tyres or using list 1a or 1b tyres classes A3 up to 1600cc or A4 up to 2300cc.
i used to run a mk1 Eunos in A1 which was great fun but it just was not powerful enough and would lose by the narrowest of margins to the Citreon Saxos.
I moved into A2 with a Mazda RX8 PZ and that was a class winner straight out of the box. In the 3 1/2 years i have owned it i have only been beaten twice, both times i was beaten it was by a honda integrated type R DC2. The driver is pretty handy too. He had the advantage of having been to Goodwood a few times before whereas i had never even been round the circuit. Since then i have beaten him around Goodwood.
Class A2 Seems to be the most popular and at our events can sometimes have between 8 and 20 cars.
The Clios do well too but struggle getting the power down through the front wheels.
I will be out at North Weald Airfield on the 30th of this month in my Clio cup. I didn't want to tax the RX for the past month just for one race, so i thought i would see what i can do on the clio.
My race suit i managed to get from eBay after is was reposed by one of these storage comapanies and my helmet is a cheap one with SNELL 2010 certification. Don't forget you will also need gloves.
The suggestion of a BMW 330 is a waste of time as you jump into class A5 with the likes of porsche GT3 RS etc.
I have attached some regs for this months event which you can have a read through, if you want some more info i am happy to answer any questions.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6l0urTaRWX5SEZaN...
speedtwelve said:
I autosolo & sprint a VX220 and MR2 Mk3. You could run either with the roof off? How about an RX8 231? Headroom, excellent handling, decent pace.
Salesy said:
I have sprinted for 4 years now and also compete in Autosolos.
As for the sprints it all depends on what class you want to run in. Class A1 up to 1600cc on standard road tyres, A2 up to 2000cc on standard road tyres or using list 1a or 1b tyres classes A3 up to 1600cc or A4 up to 2300cc.
i used to run a mk1 Eunos in A1 which was great fun but it just was not powerful enough and would lose by the narrowest of margins to the Citreon Saxos.
I moved into A2 with a Mazda RX8 PZ and that was a class winner straight out of the box. In the 3 1/2 years i have owned it i have only been beaten twice, both times i was beaten it was by a honda integrated type R DC2. The driver is pretty handy too. He had the advantage of having been to Goodwood a few times before whereas i had never even been round the circuit. Since then i have beaten him around Goodwood.
Class A2 Seems to be the most popular and at our events can sometimes have between 8 and 20 cars.
The Clios do well too but struggle getting the power down through the front wheels.
I will be out at North Weald Airfield on the 30th of this month in my Clio cup. I didn't want to tax the RX for the past month just for one race, so i thought i would see what i can do on the clio.
My race suit i managed to get from eBay after is was reposed by one of these storage comapanies and my helmet is a cheap one with SNELL 2010 certification. Don't forget you will also need gloves.
The suggestion of a BMW 330 is a waste of time as you jump into class A5 with the likes of porsche GT3 RS etc.
I have attached some regs for this months event which you can have a read through, if you want some more info i am happy to answer any questions.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6l0urTaRWX5SEZaN...
Thanks guys. The RX8 definitely sounds like a strong possibility then and wil scrap all thoughts of the 330. As for the sprints it all depends on what class you want to run in. Class A1 up to 1600cc on standard road tyres, A2 up to 2000cc on standard road tyres or using list 1a or 1b tyres classes A3 up to 1600cc or A4 up to 2300cc.
i used to run a mk1 Eunos in A1 which was great fun but it just was not powerful enough and would lose by the narrowest of margins to the Citreon Saxos.
I moved into A2 with a Mazda RX8 PZ and that was a class winner straight out of the box. In the 3 1/2 years i have owned it i have only been beaten twice, both times i was beaten it was by a honda integrated type R DC2. The driver is pretty handy too. He had the advantage of having been to Goodwood a few times before whereas i had never even been round the circuit. Since then i have beaten him around Goodwood.
Class A2 Seems to be the most popular and at our events can sometimes have between 8 and 20 cars.
The Clios do well too but struggle getting the power down through the front wheels.
I will be out at North Weald Airfield on the 30th of this month in my Clio cup. I didn't want to tax the RX for the past month just for one race, so i thought i would see what i can do on the clio.
My race suit i managed to get from eBay after is was reposed by one of these storage comapanies and my helmet is a cheap one with SNELL 2010 certification. Don't forget you will also need gloves.
The suggestion of a BMW 330 is a waste of time as you jump into class A5 with the likes of porsche GT3 RS etc.
I have attached some regs for this months event which you can have a read through, if you want some more info i am happy to answer any questions.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6l0urTaRWX5SEZaN...
Obvoiusly aware of the apparent issues/maintenence requirements of the wankel engine so any further experience with that or tips on what to look out for would be greatly appreciated.
For the A2 class are we talking a totally stock car or are modifications to brakes/suspension/interior allowed?
EDIT - Can't believe how cheap a good one looks https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/.... Definitely needs serious consideration.
ecsrobin said:
And if going down the sprint route (don't know about the others except Autosolo that requires nothing) don't forget to allow money for a snell2010 or newer helmet, a suit that is FIA 8856 2000 or FIA 1986 standard and flame resistant gloves.
It all adds up as I'm finding out.
Indeed, I've already factored this into the budget as I reckon another £750 could easily be spent on all of this + boots?It all adds up as I'm finding out.
Edited by SWoll on Sunday 16th April 08:55
Class A2 is for standard road going un modified cars.
From memory you can fit a panel filter and swap the rear exhaust box, you can also fit things like roll cages and racing seats.
No other modifications are allowed. Brakes have to remain as standard fitted on the car and I think a new rule for this year is that the car is to be as it left the Factory without aftermarket wheels or other accessories but happy to be corrected.
The RX8 has not been any trouble at all. The only cost I have had is tyres and brakes.
I did have another gearbox fitted as 2nd gear synchro was broke.
From memory you can fit a panel filter and swap the rear exhaust box, you can also fit things like roll cages and racing seats.
No other modifications are allowed. Brakes have to remain as standard fitted on the car and I think a new rule for this year is that the car is to be as it left the Factory without aftermarket wheels or other accessories but happy to be corrected.
The RX8 has not been any trouble at all. The only cost I have had is tyres and brakes.
I did have another gearbox fitted as 2nd gear synchro was broke.
Salesy said:
Class A2 is for standard road going un modified cars.
From memory you can fit a panel filter and swap the rear exhaust box, you can also fit things like roll cages and racing seats.
No other modifications are allowed. Brakes have to remain as standard fitted on the car and I think a new rule for this year is that the car is to be as it left the Factory without aftermarket wheels or other accessories but happy to be corrected.
The RX8 has not been any trouble at all. The only cost I have had is tyres and brakes.
I did have another gearbox fitted as 2nd gear synchro was broke.
Cheers salesy. I've just pulled down a copy of the MSA blue book and regs for 2017 so will have a good read through.From memory you can fit a panel filter and swap the rear exhaust box, you can also fit things like roll cages and racing seats.
No other modifications are allowed. Brakes have to remain as standard fitted on the car and I think a new rule for this year is that the car is to be as it left the Factory without aftermarket wheels or other accessories but happy to be corrected.
The RX8 has not been any trouble at all. The only cost I have had is tyres and brakes.
I did have another gearbox fitted as 2nd gear synchro was broke.
Just edited my post above to say I can't believe how cheap a good one of these looks? Definitely looks like a decent car + any allowable mods + safety gear would come in under the £5k budget I've got in my head.
On another note, I've been discussing this with a mate of mine and he's dead keen on getting involved, which would obviously halve the outlay. I believe sprint/hill climbing allow shared driving of the car?
I've been sprinting / hillclimbing for over ten years, also Autosolo in a number of cars, I would go and take a look at a few events and speak to the other competitors before buying a car. The paddocks are very friendly and people are happy to give you info.
I'd also look to buy something that could be competitive as once you are hooked you will want to be up there as much as possible!
I would suggest a Mk3 mx5 as they are much bigger inside, see if you fit, a change of seat could help you too. There is also a MX5 championship in the Bristol area not too far from you.
You won't be allowed to strip out the car in production class, the regulations are easy to see in the blue book and event regs.
I'd also look to buy something that could be competitive as once you are hooked you will want to be up there as much as possible!
I would suggest a Mk3 mx5 as they are much bigger inside, see if you fit, a change of seat could help you too. There is also a MX5 championship in the Bristol area not too far from you.
You won't be allowed to strip out the car in production class, the regulations are easy to see in the blue book and event regs.
Thanks D G.
A mate of mine has an MX-5 (MK3 I believe) and unfortunately driving it has always proven very uncomfortable for me otherwise it would be a definite contender. Although 6.4" I'm not long of leg so would be a bit concerned at the propsect of rolling a car where my head is above the line of the windscreen for example..
This started out as a search for a track day car for a bit of fun and the sprint/HC consideration came later as a 'what else could I do with it?' so not too concerned about buying the car, especially at the budget I'm looking at.
Reading through the blue book now and I'm not sure I'd define everything as 'clear'.
It looks like springs/dampers/bushes can be upgraded as can brake pads, interior changes are a little more vague as the reg reads "interior trim must remain fitted with the exception of carpets/mats", so does this mean front seats can be upgraded assuming there are still 2 of them?
Can't find anything in there with regards to induction/exhaust requirements so would need to look into that.
A mate of mine has an MX-5 (MK3 I believe) and unfortunately driving it has always proven very uncomfortable for me otherwise it would be a definite contender. Although 6.4" I'm not long of leg so would be a bit concerned at the propsect of rolling a car where my head is above the line of the windscreen for example..
This started out as a search for a track day car for a bit of fun and the sprint/HC consideration came later as a 'what else could I do with it?' so not too concerned about buying the car, especially at the budget I'm looking at.
Reading through the blue book now and I'm not sure I'd define everything as 'clear'.
It looks like springs/dampers/bushes can be upgraded as can brake pads, interior changes are a little more vague as the reg reads "interior trim must remain fitted with the exception of carpets/mats", so does this mean front seats can be upgraded assuming there are still 2 of them?
Can't find anything in there with regards to induction/exhaust requirements so would need to look into that.
SWoll said:
Cheers salesy. I've just pulled down a copy of the MSA blue book and regs for 2017 so will have a good read through.
Just edited my post above to say I can't believe how cheap a good one of these looks? Definitely looks like a decent car + any allowable mods + safety gear would come in under the £5k budget I've got in my head.
On another note, I've been discussing this with a mate of mine and he's dead keen on getting involved, which would obviously halve the outlay. I believe sprint/hill climbing allow shared driving of the car?
I quite often shard my car with fellow PHer FurybladeLee.Just edited my post above to say I can't believe how cheap a good one of these looks? Definitely looks like a decent car + any allowable mods + safety gear would come in under the £5k budget I've got in my head.
On another note, I've been discussing this with a mate of mine and he's dead keen on getting involved, which would obviously halve the outlay. I believe sprint/hill climbing allow shared driving of the car?
Great fun pushing each other and finding the cars limits.
SWoll said:
It looks like springs/dampers/bushes can be upgraded as can brake pads, interior changes are a little more vague as the reg reads "interior trim must remain fitted with the exception of carpets/mats", so does this mean front seats can be upgraded assuming there are still 2 of them?
I think you're reading the Roadgoing rules (classes A3, A4, A5). Standard Production has changed for this year and I don't think any modifications are allowed apart from safety-related and replacing the driver's seat with a competition one. But I'm in A3 this year (was in A1 for many years) so not totally au fait with this year's Standard Production regs.
The rule of thumb is road production allows mods and standard production doesn't, be aware of the different class structures that are about too. My Lancer Gsr has uprated suspension, brakes, exhaust & induction and I've changed the seats and added harnesses. Runs in road production as it's Road legal and all the trim except the carpet is still inside and all the systems are still there (electric windows etc). We are also allowed 1b tyres in the South West.
ChevronB19 said:
Height wise, and also considering your preference for rwd, see if you fit into a Porsche 924S or 944. Plenty available from the various series (and I'm talking post 'first try' here). I'm 6ft and there was acres of space even with a helmet on in mine.
The PCGB series has a very lenient view on modification too, meaning that you can do lots and still be in a road-going class...D_G said:
The rule of thumb is road production allows mods and standard production doesn't, be aware of the different class structures that are about too. My Lancer Gsr has uprated suspension, brakes, exhaust & induction and I've changed the seats and added harnesses. Runs in road production as it's Road legal and all the trim except the carpet is still inside and all the systems are still there (electric windows etc). We are also allowed 1b tyres in the South West.
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