Has Button broken Hamilton?
Discussion
mollytherocker said:
The problem is, you cannot re-program your personality and Lewis is sensitive. Its like telling someone with depression to 'pull yourself together man!'.
What he can do is learn to understand it and control it.
MTR
you can't re-program personality but you can reprogram interactions - what has amazed me since day 1 for Lewis is how reluctant he is to go in front of the media, even now 5 years in Brundle is more likely to get a chat with Petrov or Vettel on the grid than Lewis. Now that shouldn't affect his driving, but clearly for someone that is sensitive, it's a distraction, especially when things are going badly and something you hate (interviews etc) means being smiley to the 52nd journalist asking the same question for the 52 time today... I'm disappointed he wasn't better prepared for this prior to F1, since he was carefully prepared for the driving part of it. The blame lies between himself; for not knuckling down and getting the hang of it, his dad; for not making sure he did and for 'protecting' him from too much media especially in year 1 and the team; for not making sure he did get the hang of it and for not getting him out there more - sadly so many of the times you do get to see him they seem staged and stilted.What he can do is learn to understand it and control it.
MTR
On top of that (and maybe behind some of the frustration) he's not got the hang of the Pirelli tyres as well as Vettel or Button.
No, I think Hamilton is losing his edge due to outside influences, fame, fortune, women..... I am jelous as f
k! Little gay diamond earings and partying with P-Diddy were going to distract him at some point.
I have been flamed before for suggesting Button is not as good as Hamilton, so I won't. :-)
k! Little gay diamond earings and partying with P-Diddy were going to distract him at some point.I have been flamed before for suggesting Button is not as good as Hamilton, so I won't. :-)
Crafty_ said:
I posted this elsewhere in response to someone asking about Lewis taking a Sabbatical after reading this piece from Will Buxton http://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2011/10/10/wh...
All this talk of "he needs people in the background to support him"
Bullst. Having Nicole whatshername going "you're great and I know you can do this" or his old man saying "go do it son"
How does that help ? To me that just adds to the pressure.
Did you hear Vettel's post race (and championship interview)?All this talk of "he needs people in the background to support him"
Bulls
t. Having Nicole whatshername going "you're great and I know you can do this" or his old man saying "go do it son"How does that help ? To me that just adds to the pressure.
The ONE person he singled out and thanked was Tommi Parmakoski, his trainer and coach. Tommi kept him focussed and grounded every step of the way to his title.
Lewis has who? Fuller in Vegas?
Bit of a co-incidence?
coetzeeh said:
Crafty_ said:
I posted this elsewhere in response to someone asking about Lewis taking a Sabbatical after reading this piece from Will Buxton http://willthef1journo.wordpress.com/2011/10/10/wh...
All this talk of "he needs people in the background to support him"
Bullst. Having Nicole whatshername going "you're great and I know you can do this" or his old man saying "go do it son"
How does that help ? To me that just adds to the pressure.
Did you hear Vettel's post race (and championship interview)?All this talk of "he needs people in the background to support him"
Bulls
t. Having Nicole whatshername going "you're great and I know you can do this" or his old man saying "go do it son"How does that help ? To me that just adds to the pressure.
The ONE person he singled out and thanked was Tommi Parmakoski, his trainer and coach. Tommi kept him focussed and grounded every step of the way to his title.
Lewis has who? Fuller in Vegas?
Bit of a co-incidence?
MTR
coetzeeh said:
Did you hear Vettel's post race (and championship interview)?
The ONE person he singled out and thanked was Tommi Parmakoski, his trainer and coach. Tommi kept him focussed and grounded every step of the way to his title.
Lewis has who? Fuller in Vegas?
Bit of a co-incidence?
You have a good point. He does appear to have a tendency to think he can do everything and nothing suffer. If I remember the BBC commentary right, he'd been jetting off to two other countries in the week before the last race.The ONE person he singled out and thanked was Tommi Parmakoski, his trainer and coach. Tommi kept him focussed and grounded every step of the way to his title.
Lewis has who? Fuller in Vegas?
Bit of a co-incidence?
Who knows.
Fire99 said:
You have a good point. He does appear to have a tendency to think he can do everything and nothing suffer. If I remember the BBC commentary right, he'd been jetting off to two other countries in the week before the last race.
Who knows.
Maybe he peaked too early. Can he become World Champion again in the resounding style Vettel has done it this year? It is more than skill he needs, he needs maturity and play the long game like Button does. And he needs a more competitive car.Who knows.
I'd put money on Vettel winning the 2012 championship, but not on Lewis. Win-win
hotmelt said:
Clevers said:
Mansell is an all time great. He is :
1) Fourth overall in the history of the sport for grand prix wins
2) Fifth highest in terms of number of poles positionswin
3) He has a higher win percentage from total F1 starts than Fernando Alonso despite spending many years in poor cars.
4) He is the only driver in history to simultaneously hold both the F1 and Indy Car titles.
5) He lived long enough to see his induction into the motor sport hall of fame
6) Pretty much every pole or survey of any merit on the greatest Grand Prix drivers of all time includes Mansell in the top 10 - Murray Walker has him in the top 10.
Sorry, but the stats don't lie - his results put him clearly in with the greatest and he drove during a very competitive era of drivers, unlike say Schumacher.
Stats are not most important here, very probably he has been the best racer ever. Such fighting spirit was absolute.
1) Fourth overall in the history of the sport for grand prix wins
2) Fifth highest in terms of number of poles positionswin
3) He has a higher win percentage from total F1 starts than Fernando Alonso despite spending many years in poor cars.
4) He is the only driver in history to simultaneously hold both the F1 and Indy Car titles.
5) He lived long enough to see his induction into the motor sport hall of fame
6) Pretty much every pole or survey of any merit on the greatest Grand Prix drivers of all time includes Mansell in the top 10 - Murray Walker has him in the top 10.
Sorry, but the stats don't lie - his results put him clearly in with the greatest and he drove during a very competitive era of drivers, unlike say Schumacher.
Stats are not most important here, very probably he has been the best racer ever. Such fighting spirit was absolute.
You seriously want to put Mansell's "fighting spirit" and "best racer ever" attributes higher than say Lauda, Keke or Hunt? What about Ascari? Nuvolari? Rosemeyer? Christ, I think Rolt and Duncan Hamilton would have laughed their tits off at that, then drunk Mansell under the table, then hopped in whatever and gone and won Le Mans. Innes Ireland? Hawthorn? Thats before we even get onto Black Jack.
Actually forget the question aspect, we shall just leave it as a statement. You are insane.
Furyblade_Lee said:
No, I think Hamilton is losing his edge due to outside influences, fame, fortune, women..... I am jelous as fk! Little gay diamond earings and partying with P-Diddy were going to distract him at some point.
I have been flamed before for suggesting Button is not as good as Hamilton, so I won't. :-)
yes, clearly, hamilton, much like achilles, drew all of his power and ability from his earlobes. having them pierced means he has lost his talent for ever.k! Little gay diamond earings and partying with P-Diddy were going to distract him at some point.I have been flamed before for suggesting Button is not as good as Hamilton, so I won't. :-)
If he is pulling 5g in the corners, the earrings cannot be helping can they ?? :-)
And with Sherzinger in bed, I'd have M.E. within a month, no energy left for 90 minutes flat out.
But seriously, he's a young man , a rich, famous young man and most certainly not a driving robot, he will get distracted and go through emotions with relationship etc we all did at his age. If he takes his eye off the ball he will drop it, fo shizzle.
And with Sherzinger in bed, I'd have M.E. within a month, no energy left for 90 minutes flat out.
But seriously, he's a young man , a rich, famous young man and most certainly not a driving robot, he will get distracted and go through emotions with relationship etc we all did at his age. If he takes his eye off the ball he will drop it, fo shizzle.
Edited by Furyblade_Lee on Tuesday 11th October 11:10
Edited by Furyblade_Lee on Tuesday 11th October 11:13
Interesting stuff from Mark Hughes on the BBC website:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/152435...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/152435...
Clevers said:
Mansell is an all time great. He is :
1) Fourth overall in the history of the sport for grand prix wins
2) Fifth highest in terms of number of poles positionswin
3) He has a higher win percentage from total F1 starts than Fernando Alonso despite spending many years in poor cars.
4) He is the only driver in history to simultaneously hold both the F1 and Indy Car titles.
5) He lived long enough to see his induction into the motor sport hall of fame
6) Pretty much every pole or survey of any merit on the greatest Grand Prix drivers of all time includes Mansell in the top 10 - Murray Walker has him in the top 10.
Sorry, but the stats don't lie - his results put him clearly in with the greatest and he drove during a very competitive era of drivers, unlike say Schumacher.
Well there's statistics and goddamn lies. That is to say stats can be twisted to suit any agenda. I think greatness is far more subjective than stats and the strength in depth of the competition.1) Fourth overall in the history of the sport for grand prix wins
2) Fifth highest in terms of number of poles positionswin
3) He has a higher win percentage from total F1 starts than Fernando Alonso despite spending many years in poor cars.
4) He is the only driver in history to simultaneously hold both the F1 and Indy Car titles.
5) He lived long enough to see his induction into the motor sport hall of fame
6) Pretty much every pole or survey of any merit on the greatest Grand Prix drivers of all time includes Mansell in the top 10 - Murray Walker has him in the top 10.
Sorry, but the stats don't lie - his results put him clearly in with the greatest and he drove during a very competitive era of drivers, unlike say Schumacher.
Mansell won WDC and set records in the best car. Same in Indycar but I take my hat off to him on the ovals. His fightbacks is what made me appreciate oval racing to this day.
No disrespect to Patrese who was a solid #2 at best but Mansell initially struggled to beat him in the first half of 1991. Can't help but think that a Prost of Senna wouldn't have that problem.
Ex-Williams and Piquet's engineer - reckoned Piquet was better than Mansell, Piquet did more work outside the car than Mansell. Bias you might say but it has been accused that Mansell thought more about the nearest golf course than how to make the car go faster. Senna was a benchmark in that regards not to mention that in 1993 Senna appeared half interested in racing in F1 still managed some incredible performances throughtout that year in a race winning car but not WDC.
Same can't be said of Mansell. 'Retirement' appeared the default option/excuse. 1994 Indycar you could tell it was soul destroying and enthusiasm waning from Penske's domination that year.
Again I reiterate that Mansell is my all time hero. His faaults I can take on the chin. A complex individual who could at one moment fustrate and in another bring pure joy.
Sproston Blue said:
Interesting stuff from Mark Hughes on the BBC website:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/152435...
Alternatively he got a puncture, pitted earlier and had to eek those lost laps out of his later sets of tyres. And he does seem to be harder on tyres than the others he was racing. It's not the first time his race pace has been compromised by over-use of tyres. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/152435...
Not sure there's any more to it really.
The last race was a brilliant race for several drivers.
What it showed was that Red Bull, McLaren & Ferrari all had the pottential to win the race but only the driver who made the least mistakes was going to win.
Hamilton is just making too many mistakes - his overly aggressive driving style is resulting with him being penalised by the stewards and the car not being as fast on its tyres as it could be.
He probably needs anger management
What it showed was that Red Bull, McLaren & Ferrari all had the pottential to win the race but only the driver who made the least mistakes was going to win.
Hamilton is just making too many mistakes - his overly aggressive driving style is resulting with him being penalised by the stewards and the car not being as fast on its tyres as it could be.
He probably needs anger management
Lewis is just having a bad year for what ever reason and this is made to look even worse by the fact that jenson is having a good year.He just needs to calm it down and not overdrive the car to try and extract performance which hasn't been there.Next year he will probably totally different.
Remember vettel last year,the crash kid?? What a difference a year makes!
Remember vettel last year,the crash kid?? What a difference a year makes!
paulrockliffe said:
Alternatively he got a puncture, pitted earlier and had to eek those lost laps out of his later sets of tyres. And he does seem to be harder on tyres than the others he was racing. It's not the first time his race pace has been compromised by over-use of tyres.
Not sure there's any more to it really.
Even so, his lap times, from what I remember, were not particularly good, despite being 2 laps out on tyres, (would that really make THAT much difference until the very end of the race, being 2 laps longer on his tyres?) Not sure there's any more to it really.
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