The WRC 2012 Thread

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interloper

2,747 posts

254 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
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matt3001 said:
I went to Rallye Deutschland a few weeks ago, and it was none of the things mentioned above.

150+ entries, plus a big historic championship attached as well going through the first 3 stages of each day (Mk2 Escorts, Deltas, Stratos', Stig Blomqvist in an Audi Quattro etc).

Huge fan/media attendance.

We had gold passes at €89 which were the top price tickets and got you in every stage, the service park, the qualifying stage and in a grandstand on the live TV (Germany TV at least) circus maximus special stage!

And parking (well organised as you would expect from the Germans) was €1 per car park.

This is where the organisers need to visit....
There is a massive lesson here, isn't there? Properly organised, sensibly priced, decent media coverage and with lots of competitors and it all adds up to a desirable package.

What we had was poorly advertised, under subscribed and really, really badly timed (considering the multitude of sporting events on that weekend). I'm an old rally nut but I wasn't even aware that WRC GB was on that weekend till I stumbled across the ceremonial start in North Wales! If I didn't know it was on, how is Jo Blogs going to know its on?



TankRS

2,850 posts

153 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
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Excuse my absence from the thread! Rally GB has knocked my body for 6 this year!

Here’s a rundown of how Wales Rally GB went for me smile

My first days duties were for Shakedown/Recce/Qualifying on Wednesday at Walters Arena.

Thursday – was a few hours in the morning getting all my gear and food ready for the rest of the week. Went to sleep at around 5pm Thursday night with the intention of getting up at 10pm. As luck would have it, Thursday’s between 5pm and 7pm are when charities knock doors, delivery vans get the wrong address, British Gas call and the kids in the street choose to have a game of ‘i can scream louder than you can’. The mrs tried her best answering the phone and door as quickly as she could but i woke each time regardless.

So after drifting in and out of sleep for a bit i found myself wide awake at about 8.15pm. despite my best efforts to try and persuade my body it really did need another hours sleep at least it was having none of it, finaly i gave in and got out of bed at 9ish for a shower and some breakfast. I pottered about for a bit until 11pm when my brother arrived. We set off then to meet up with another member of my motor club to travel to Builth Wells to meet up with other members of our club for 1am. We then travelled for about 2hrs before arriving at the Dyfnant stage much earlier than the satnav/directions said we should have. We hung about for 45mins until sign on opened at 4.

The stage ran perfectly and we left at around 4pm, drove straight home. Picked up my car and headed home. I finally got to mine around 8pm, got fed and watered then headed to bed at 11pm Friday night. So i was awake for around 26hrs Thursday 9pm – Friday 11pm!

I was treated to a lie in of sorts Saturday as i wasn’t in action until the Celtic Manor Spectator Stage in the afternoon. Picked up my brother and nephew before heading to Sign on for 3pm, first car due at 6.30, so the usual hang about for timing equipment to arrive, and general marshal duties for those who thought standing in the runoff area for the cars was a great place to see the action. He didn’t quite understand the implications a rally car, running gravel set up and badly worn gravel tyres, approaching the junction he was stood behind at around 200kph (organisers estimated speed for the section) and if getting it wrong and the ensuing carnage would be.

Stage went by quickly as only the WRC entries ran the stage, 31 cars in all. So was home by about 9 again i think. Potched about for a bit before having food with a DVD then going to bed about 11pm.

Woke up at 3am Sunday for a shower and breakfast, before my brother and nephew arrived at 4am and we headed over to Walters Arena for Sign on again. Usual waiting about for timing gear to arrive etc. Stage ran great all morning and afternoon and i left at about 6pm

I went to bed Sunday evening at about 11pm and awoke Monday morning at 11am so a great 12hr sleep there to recharge some lost brain function from the previous week.

The whole week of Rally GB takes a massive toll on the body and brain function. But each year i say i won’t do as much as i did last year but end up doing as much if not more the next year!

I can see where people are coming from in saying this year’s race was poor, the small entry list was a joke, and running the nationals over 3 days was a good idea, unfortunately from what i could see in the spectator areas, once the top10 drivers had run through they packed up and went, many didn’t seem to care the nationals were running, and some of their action was as impressive as the WRC boys! One guy i spoke to Sunday afternoon wasn’t aware Perez was running his Stratos! Poor information from WRGB or poor planning/research from him i can’t say.

Ticket prices are ridiculous, driving all the way up to Llandudno to run over the start ramp is a joke, but as the local council gave a hefty cheque to WRGB it was necessary.

Stages are short, access is poor and the designated parking and spectator areas are not usually in the best spots! Those that are, are usually over crowded giving you poor visuals to the action.

There are the ‘i have a safety tabard on so you WILL listen to me or I’ll stop the fking stage’ monkeys. And sometimes they do get put in the areas they really shouldn’t be. Likewise we do get the ‘i know better than you what’s safe’ spectators. But in my experience a cool calm head, and a fair explanation as to why they shouldn’t be there works better than the ‘because i said so! So move’.

The rally is being held here in Wales again next year, with the option of extending it through until 2015.

There was the option to run it elsewhere but i heard it as no other bid came with the level of financial backing that the Welsh Government have pledged.

I wouldn’t mind a move to Scotland or to England for stages, though it probably would have an impact on the number of days i committed to Marshalling.

If it did move out of Wales, would it really run any cheaper? Would there be less road miles for spectators and competitors? I can’t see the stages being any longer than they are now so what really will a change of venue benefit besides the local fans/marshals? And obviously the boost to local tourism?

I personally believe that the change need to come in the format of the way the WRC is currently operating and the way rallies are being run.

There’s far too many identikit rallies in the championship right now with the exception of Sweden and Finland. The tarmac rounds are no different despite the claims the type of tarmac is more challenging between the rounds. A gravel rally is a gravel rally. Weirdly for spectators and marshals the poor weather that used to fall on the week of Rally GB was one of the things that made it different, the fog, the mud, the cold icy conditions would make it a better challenge than just another round on gravel, the events when the rain really came it was more a mud round than a gravel one wink

ArnageWRC

2,050 posts

158 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
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The last 2 posts sum it up pretty well.

However, despite the issues tbe event has, the spectacle remains, the speeds of the top boys are mind blowing and TV simply can't translate this.

Emeye

9,773 posts

222 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
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ArnageWRC said:
The last 2 posts sum it up pretty well.

However, despite the issues tbe event has, the spectacle remains, the speeds of the top boys are mind blowing and TV simply can't translate this.
The footage on motors tv was really good. Some very good camera angles showing the speed and commitment. The incar stuff was also better than I remember....

TankRS

2,850 posts

153 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
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Emeye said:
The footage on motors tv was really good. Some very good camera angles showing the speed and commitment. The incar stuff was also better than I remember....
i havent watched the motors TV coverage yet, but have watched the Ralio stuff, they did a great job imo. and the in car stuff was good too, you could see more than trees/sky and bonnet-2feet infront of the car!

also spoke to the ralio filming guys on stage on friday, they were shooting with HD cameras and it showed in the quality of their footage instead of it looking like it's been filmed via webcam that some of the footage has looked on other ralies this year

Emeye

9,773 posts

222 months

Tuesday 18th September 2012
quotequote all
TankRS said:
Emeye said:
The footage on motors tv was really good. Some very good camera angles showing the speed and commitment. The incar stuff was also better than I remember....
i havent watched the motors TV coverage yet, but have watched the Ralio stuff, they did a great job imo. and the in car stuff was good too, you could see more than trees/sky and bonnet-2feet infront of the car!

also spoke to the ralio filming guys on stage on friday, they were shooting with HD cameras and it showed in the quality of their footage instead of it looking like it's been filmed via webcam that some of the footage has looked on other ralies this year
Unfortunately motors tv isn't transmitted at a very high bandwidth so HD footage is of no benefit. I had to watch day 3 via YouTube and that was even worse!

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Wednesday 19th September 2012
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I was watching the IRC on eurosport last night, I do wish the WRC had the same HD coverage as that! They're both FIA aren't they?...

ArnageWRC

2,050 posts

158 months

Wednesday 19th September 2012
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The picture & sound quality on MotorsTV is shockingly bad.
The Silverstone 6 Hours was on MotorsTV, and later on Eurosport HD/ Eurosport 2. Even the picture/sound quality on Eurosport 2 was far better than the same on MotorsTV.




http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/motorsport/wrc-bein...

EDLT

15,421 posts

205 months

Wednesday 19th September 2012
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The guy who wrote he autocar article needs to tag "in the UK" onto the end of most of his complaints.

TankRS

2,850 posts

153 months

Wednesday 19th September 2012
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some of the comments on the article are the same old drivel we've seen posted on others threads rally related too.

and the token tintop/f1 fan pitching up with 'you cant buy a 4x4 fiesta/DS3 so why are they using them?' rolleyes

yes you can buy a turbo focus/astra as in btcc. but its nothing like the car you see on the screen/track. the drivers seat is firmly on the right as opposed to central on the btcc cars. and even they are bewinged, wide arched racers that share an engine and chassis base for the racer!

i do refrain from replying with - you cant go out and buy a fking RedBull F1 car can you? so your argument is pretty much infkingvalid!


WRC as a whole is in trouble, until the promoter is confirmed, and in turn a TV package is confirmed we won’t see any change anytime soon.

i'd love Todt to put his foot down and say 'were going back to endurance based events on 2 or 3 rounds and that’s that, don’t like it? tough!’
sadly i can’t see that happening though.

VW joining next year is a plus. As long as Ford and Citroen commit too.
Hyundai and Toyota are being batted about as interested, but until i see a car entered as anything other than a 000 car on an event i’ll just take that as a publicity stunt.

I do like the idea of a return to FWD or RWD 1.8/2.0ltr cars for the series, but given neither Ford, Citroen or VW have RWD in their line up were just going to have the BRC on a worldwide scale!

EDLT

15,421 posts

205 months

Wednesday 19th September 2012
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2WD WRC cars will never happen. WRC is supposed to be the top championship, it would look stupid if the 4WD PWRC and SWRC cars are miles ahead.

TankRS

2,850 posts

153 months

Wednesday 19th September 2012
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EDLT said:
2WD WRC cars will never happen. WRC is supposed to be the top championship, it would look stupid if the 4WD PWRC and SWRC cars are miles ahead.
i agree, should have expanded that WRC would be RWD while J/SWRC would be FWD just like the academy is now is what some comments have asked for

EDLT

15,421 posts

205 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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TankRS said:
EDLT said:
2WD WRC cars will never happen. WRC is supposed to be the top championship, it would look stupid if the 4WD PWRC and SWRC cars are miles ahead.
i agree, should have expanded that WRC would be RWD while J/SWRC would be FWD just like the academy is now is what some comments have asked for
The problem with that is other classes run on the same event, so sitting at the top of the time sheets (unless its dry tarmac) will be some local driver in a Group N car. To stop that happening you have two choices: Ban private entries, making Rally GB's 30 look like a traffic jam OR ban 4WD rally cars all the way down to club level globally all because you want some more people to go and stand in a forest in Wales - plenty of people turn up to rallys in the rest of the world remember.

Now we just need someone to suggest forcing manufacturers to burn millions building homologation specials and then it is officially groundhog day.

GravelBen

15,655 posts

229 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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Plus fwd rally cars are generally pretty boring to watch...

"crowd numbers are down? we better make the cars less interesting and get rid of those silly sideways antics, that will help."

EDLT

15,421 posts

205 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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GravelBen said:
Plus fwd rally cars are generally pretty boring to watch...

"crowd numbers are down in Wales? we better make the cars less interesting and get rid of those silly sideways antics, that will help."
Can't emphasize that enough.

And the BRC cars are incredibly dull to watch, although cost was the real problem there - so they picked the most expensive solution.

TankRS

2,850 posts

153 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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stolen from British Rally Forum said:
Rallycameraman wrote:
Have to say there's some utter utter s***e been posted on this thread.


Oh dear! Oh dear! How right you are.

Great event, with some commited driving from World class Rally drivers. And the Nationals were good value too.

After leaving home at 1.30am, and driving 150 miles to sign on for "Sector Official" duties at Crychan. (Sadly only 1 day this year due to work commitments), we had a great day.

Do we realy want the "good old days" to return?
All the hype and publicity? Are memories short? 4 Hour queues to reach Dolgellau. Rally drivers stopped by Police for using hard shoulders on Motorways to beat the crowds and keep to time? Car parks full and disgruntled fans turned away?Stages cancelled because unrully spectators spilt out on to the track and FIA Safety objected?

Are we sure we want "Joe Public" spectating? Having in the past rescued an ignorant familly wishing to push their pram WD down a live stage! Escorted drunken teenagers back to the spectator pen? Made a collection of unsuitable footwear and cleared up debris left behind by those who prefer to discard rubbish rather than take it home? Pinching stage furniture? Then there are those who played chicken" on a live stage etc, etc. Don't forget, speeds are much higher now.

This year was very enjoyable! Less, but apparently more knowledgeble spectators. The stage remained in good condition for the second run. ( Even the arrows still remained in place!!)
Yes there was a longer gap between runs, but it least there was time for the Marshals to boil a kettle or heat a tin of soup and even "water the forest"!

Cost? The Gold Pass at £130 allowed unlimited access to Shakedown, All stages and Service Areas for the whole event. How does that compare with a up to £1,000 paid to watch Mr Bolt run 100 metres in under 10 seconds.
Local Publicty? Somewhow they got to hear about it. Having cleared up our junction and exiting the stage we joined in with the end of the WRC crews heading for Celtic Manor. Every layby, village and town was lined with spectators cheering the cars on.

So if we can run 50 WRC twice with 50 Nationals in between the formula would be spot on.
you know, i have to agree with most of his points. my mate only reaslied the rally was on after seeing the advert for it on HTV, wales version on ITV regionals, and that was about a week and a half before the event, so even though advertising may have been poor elsewhere here in Wales it was being promoted.

and tbh if you are a rally fan you usually check whats on on what dates, so those who say they missed it due to the schedule change really arent following the UK events as closely as they could

GravelBen

15,655 posts

229 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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EDLT said:
GravelBen said:
"crowd numbers are down in Wales?
Can't emphasize that enough.
Fair point, its still pretty popular down here in NZ!

interloper

2,747 posts

254 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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I'm slightly horrified by that rather snobby ill thought out post, yes there are benefits to a smaller event but you need to see the bigger picture. Were does the money come from to go rallying? Sponsors of course and what sponsors want is exposure.

Without public interest sport generally dies, sure there is a balance and currently it isn't being struck!

EDLT

15,421 posts

205 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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Sponsors are more interested in TV than live spectators. 100,000 people turn up to watch the F1, tens of millions watch it on the box. If Red Bull can sort the TV coverage out there will be more interest from sponsors and therefore more teams (with a competitive budget), the sport will fix itself.

I think part of the reason the BTCC has had an increase in popularity (outside of PH, of course) is because it gets ITV4 to itself, unlike the 'good old days' where you got highlights a week later.

interloper

2,747 posts

254 months

Thursday 20th September 2012
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I think you are missing the point slightly, yes TV coverage is very important but tv companies tend to ignore stuff that is seen as small and minority interest. When the RAC was big, it got big TV coverage, which then lead to big sponsor interest.

Now its Rally Wales GB, its rather small and mainstream telly stays away.