Toyota's new Le Mans car - official pics and spec

[Nick1point9]

chevronb37 said:

Red Firecracker said:

Nick1point9 said:

Article subtitle said:

Le Man's first hybrid is officially unveiled

Article main body said:

So there you have it, the first - and so far only - hybrid Le Mans car. Though rumour has it that Audi is working on its own hybrid competitor...

Except that Hope Racing ran an LMP1 hybrid last year.

Also the Audi that tested at Sebring earlier in the year and the still born Peugeot 908 Hybrid that has also tested.

F1GTRUeno said:

Are these fins gonna be around long?

Completely ruin these cars.

Although initially derided by everyone, they have gained favour after proving their worth last year.

And the Panoz Q9 which attended the 1998 Le Mans test day and that year's Petit Le Mans.

Hope racing actually competed in the 24 hours race though.

[threespires]

The Delta Wing is an interesting device. This is from their website.
Good luck to them.


Delta Wing Racing Cars 2012

[E38Ross]

great they're in le mans, but i'd be surprised if they beat Audi. i don't mind audi winning, i think it's funny for some reason. i'll admit i was so glad they won 2011, after the 2 crashes and the unsporting behaviour from peugeot.

[exhaustfume]

F1GTRUeno said:

Are these fins gonna be around long?

Completely ruin these cars.

At least for 2013... and perhaps beyond. But there's going to big chassis changes for 2014 (width and length will be slightly reduced) and I'm hoping the flying issue is solved with a complete underbody revamp. Then there would no need for the fins and fender holes...

playalistic said:

Some external video. Little 'moment' at the beginning. I personally welcome our Toyota overlords.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xo0f1d_roulage-de...

I think the traction control isn't yet operational or not quite optimally set up. I can't hear the typical TRR-TRR-TRRR from it either.

robmlufc said:

No its not like F1 KERS, its not a push to activate system that can be controlled by driver. I think its use gets mapped into the engine so will work at certain revs and throttle position. Also, I think, the car has to be able to drive the entire length of the pitlane under leckie power only.

"Push to pass" is specifically forbidden, which is great.

Edited by exhaustfume on Thursday 26th January 03:33

[playalistic]

Would current regs allow the hybrids to use torque vectoring? If so, the toyota will be a beast in the corners.

[robmlufc]

playalistic said:

Would current regs allow the hybrids to use torque vectoring? If so, the toyota will be a beast in the corners.

I can't see it specifically mentioned in the regs anywhere, although you are not allowed a diff with electrical assistance. Not sure if that covers it.

[kambites]

garypotter said:

A hybrid, will this be a similar idea to the Kers systems run in F1 or is this a battery supplying power to an axle for all 24hrs??

Since overtaking is less of an issue in endurance racing, I'd guessing it'll be a full-time hybrid system much more like those that road cars use.

[robmlufc]

kambites said:

Since overtaking is less of an issue in endurance racing, I'd guessing it'll be a full-time hybrid system much more like those that road cars use.

"The combustion engine and the electric motor must be controlled by the driver using the accelerator pedal (push
to pass buttons forbidden)." Is what the 2011 rules say.
The capacitors are charged similar to the KERS on an F1 car I believe, from the braking system. In F1 they can only use so much charge per lap (6 or 7 seconds?), I presume in LMP they will be using it as often as they can.
The Audi system is a bit different, they are using the Porsche Flybrid AFAIK.

[Red Firecracker]

robmlufc said:

"The combustion engine and the electric motor must be controlled by the driver using the accelerator pedal (push
to pass buttons forbidden)." Is what the 2011 rules say.
The capacitors are charged similar to the KERS on an F1 car I believe, from the braking system. In F1 they can only use so much charge per lap (6 or 7 seconds?), I presume in LMP they will be using it as often as they can.
The Audi system is a bit different, they are using the Porsche Flybrid AFAIK.

This is from the ACO site;

HYBRID SYSTEMS

The ACO wishes to give manufacturers the widest possible scope to use and develop such systems by putting a certain number of controls in place. Energy recovery systems will be allowed provided that they respect the following rules :


* Recovery and release systems of energy at each axle (front or rear) to be a free choice.
* Maximum quantity of energy released between two braking phases to be 500 kJ.
* Energy storage: by electrical or mechanical systems.
* Systems to be activated by the accelerator pedal only ('push to pass' buttons, e.g. KERS forbidden).
* Hybrid safety specifications to be drawn up by the ACO.
* Other means of energy recovery will be allowed: exhaust, engine heat, dampers, etc. provided that they respect the specifications drawn up by the ACO (safety considerations, banning of driver aids, evaluation of the increases provided by the systems, the reduction in fuel consumption and CO2 emissions).
* Energy recovery systems using brakes must not be active during braking for curves (driver aids banned).
* Fuel tank capacity reduction: 2 litres less for both petrol and diesel-engined cars.
* Pit lane test obligatory for the cars in the hybrid category according to Article 1 / Definitions, Section 1.12 of the ACO LM P1 & LM P2 technical regulations, which stipulate that a car in this category must be able to cover the distance of the pit lane (400 metres) at a speed of 60 km/h using only the power generated by its hybrid system.

I think the first line is especially telling, front OR rear axle, so 4x4 not possible.

[Rude-boy]

Red Firecracker said:

I think the first line is especially telling, front OR rear axle, so 4x4 not possible.

Doesn't stop front mounting of the Hy system though meaning part time 4fd is possible I would have thought?

[robmlufc]

Red Firecracker said:

• Recovery and release systems of energy at each axle (front or rear) to be a free choice.

I think the first line is especially telling, front OR rear axle, so 4x4 not possible.

If you had the hybrid system acting on the front axle you would have an assisted 4x4 system?

As Rude-Boy just said!

2011 Rule book says... "9.4 - Four wheel drive: not permitted unless the car is equipped
with a hybrid system (see article 1.13 above)."

Edited by robmlufc on Thursday 26th January 11:57

[Red Firecracker]

Sorry, yes, work getting in the way of typing sensibly, I was meaning 4x4 electric drive. Toyota are still undecided, from reports, of which end to drive electrically.

[exhaustfume]

If it acts on the front, it can not used be under 120 km/h.

Btw, the full 2012 regs (well, a leaked draft) are available at Mulsannescorner.com: http://www.mulsannescorner.com/2012LMP12December6d...

IIRC the energy recovery part isn't much different from the 2011 rules, though.

Edited by exhaustfume on Thursday 26th January 12:56

[robmlufc]

"Ensure, for each axle, equal braking power left and right
and guarantee, in addition, identical hydraulic pressures
and, for vehicles for which the electric torque does not
pass through a rear differential, identical electric torques
left and right."
"The FIA will monitor the pressure supplied to each calliper
and the electric torque transmitted to each wheel."

I think that nails torque vectoring!

[Rude-boy]

exhaustfume said:

If it acts on the front, it can not used be under 120 km/h.

That would explain the debate then as I would have thought that front was the 'obvious' end to drive for maximum advantage. Make it unavailable under 120km/h and you negate a lot of the front's advantage over rear opperation.

[robmlufc]

Rude-boy said:

hat would explain the debate then as I would have thought that front was the 'obvious' end to drive for maximum advantage. Make it unavailable under 120km/h and you negate a lot of the front's advantage over rear opperation.

What will the effect of having no diff and equal torque going through both front wheels have on the handling and tyres also? Not a great help?

[Rude-boy]

robmlufc said:

What will the effect of having no diff and equal torque going through both front wheels have on the handling and tyres also? Not a great help?

Please accept that I am no engineer here...

I was thinking front for increased traction out of the tighter corners but I take on board your point about tyre ware.

No so sure that the lack of a diff would be insurmountable.

[playalistic]

robmlufc said:

"Ensure, for each axle, equal braking power left and right
and guarantee, in addition, identical hydraulic pressures
and, for vehicles for which the electric torque does not
pass through a rear differential, identical electric torques
left and right."
"The FIA will monitor the pressure supplied to each calliper
and the electric torque transmitted to each wheel."

I think that nails torque vectoring!

Gotcha.

in-car footage of pit lane exit... when the V8 starts up

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xo1qfb_camera-emb...

[Skater12]

Red Firecracker said:

Nick1point9 said:

Article subtitle said:

Le Man's first hybrid is officially unveiled

Article main body said:

So there you have it, the first - and so far only - hybrid Le Mans car. Though rumour has it that Audi is working on its own hybrid competitor...

Except that Hope Racing ran an LMP1 hybrid last year.

Also the Audi that tested at Sebring earlier in the year and the still born Peugeot 908 Hybrid that has also tested.

F1GTRUeno said:

Are these fins gonna be around long?

Completely ruin these cars.

Although initially derided by everyone, they have gained favour after proving their worth last year.

Peugeot and toyota share alot of tech, road cars and race cars alike.
Peugeot suddenly drop out of endurance racing, and have been developing a Hybrid 908.
Toyota, out of the blue ( no pun intended )a day or so later say they will be returning to endurance racing, with a hybrid.
Coincidence, i think not.

[robmlufc]

Skater12 said:

Toyota, out of the blue ( no pun intended )a day or so later say they will be returning to endurance racing, with a hybrid.

Toyota confirmed it about the middle of last year.