Pirelli tyres

[zac510]

We had this *exact* same situation 12 months ago. Early in the season teams were struggling to get the best from the tyres. In a couple of races time the teams will have extracted much more life from the tyres and by the 2nd half of the season we'll be back to regular 2 stop races, possibly some one stops by an adventurous midfielder or two.

Then Pirelli will have to tweak the compound again in 2013 to keep them on their toes

[Graebob]

2 inch wide, radial ply tyres. End.

[playalistic]

Bet he wouldn't be whinging if he was at the front of the grid consistently.

[Johnboy Mac]

playalistic said:

Bet he wouldn't be whinging if he was at the front of the grid consistently.

Was he actually 'whinging', I don't so. After all who'd whinge coming from 22nd to 10th. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Scuffers]

Rude-boy said:

Rose tinted specs.

Tyre war threw up a few surprise results, and the odd weekend where one make would be dominant.

The tyres are about the only spec component in F1. If they can't make them work then that is the team and the driver's issue, perhaps they would like to find another place to display their talent?

Sorry whilst the cars might not be able to race flat strap 100% of the time F1 has always been about far, far more than that. If we change the tyres the next thing is people will moan that with the fuel restrictions they can't run at full pace the whole race. Once that is dealt with there will be the next thing such as why don't we have T/C back, and then another and another.

Sorry I think that Pirelli have produced a cracking tyre. The racing is wonderful this year and for the teams it is a total nightmare to choose if it is better to stay out and try to hang on or if they should pit for new boots.

So far F1 2012 is turning into a stellar year and I would rather see 4 or 5 teams in with a shout than 1 or 2 sharing all the spoils between them.

not the point, I want to see drivers race, not play nanny to st tyres.

the whole KERS/DRS/ste Tyres thing is just artificial crap IMHO

yes, the cars need more power than grip, but they also need tyres that don't disintegrate at the first sign of stress.

now, you could argue narrower harder tyres, but then all you do is make the cars that much more reliant on Aero, the problem nobody seems interested in dealing with.

Same goes for KERS, fine if you want innovation, take the stupid rules off it's use, if somebody can come up with a 400Kw Kers and a battery that can hold 10+Kwh, let them, all this so much per lap guff is a joke, and at least if they were developing this stuff, the tricle down might actually have some benefits.

[SRT77]

playalistic said:

Bet he wouldn't be whinging if he was at the front of the grid consistently.

Well, apart from Bahrain, he has in fact qualified at the front end of the grid consistently.

I think he was speaking for much of the grid anyway, and were the tyres made more consistent then it would benefit all drivers and not just himself.

Edited by SRT77 on Monday 23 April 11:37

[Use Psychology]

the problem is that the tyres are so delicate you have to stick to a planned lap time. you can't push. you can't bridge a gap. you have to sit there and hope that the car in front uses up it's tyres faster than you. if you are out in front, leading, you have it easy - you just tootle round saving your tyres. if your stop or a mistake drops you into traffic you're screwed - you need to push harder to make up ground but the tyres can't take it. so you just sit there and hope the cars in front wear out their tyres faster than you do.

what we really need are tyres with a limited lifetime that can take some abuse

the tyres wearing out is good - but right now they go off/wear out in the wrong fashion. there is tread/rubber left but the tyres gets too hot and are no longer quick, so have to be changed. Pirelli should make a tyre that lasts 20 laps maximum but can be driven 100 % for the duration. keep the cliff, just make it appear due to tread wear and not thermal shock.

[TheHeretic]

Munter said:

Rude-boy said:

Things and stuff

What he said ^^^

As an aside I think motorsport is it's most entertaining when there is an excess of power over grip. If anything I'd want to see much less grip from the tyres to start with, make the drivers really have to work the car to get it to go fast.

Also agree... I remember all too well the processions we used to have in the late 90's and 00's. Do not want. As has been said, the tyres are one of only a few spec parts, and it is the same for all. Get on with it.

[robmlufc]

Scuffers said:

Same goes for KERS, fine if you want innovation, take the stupid rules off it's use, if somebody can come up with a 400Kw Kers and a battery that can hold 10+Kwh, let them, all this so much per lap guff is a joke, and at least if they were developing this stuff, the tricle down might actually have some benefits.

The KERS used in sports car racing is much more interesting, they can use it whenever they want about 75kph and power the front wheels if they feel the need. F1 is looking at turbo compounding for KERS next season but thats already in use around the world, its hardly innovation anymore.

[TheHeretic]

Use Psychology said:

the problem is that the tyres are so delicate you have to stick to a planned lap time. you can't push. you can't bridge a gap. you have to sit there and hope that the car in front uses up it's tyres faster than you. if you are out in front, leading, you have it easy - you just tootle round saving your tyres. if your stop or a mistake drops you into traffic you're screwed - you need to push harder to make up ground but the tyres can't take it. so you just sit there and hope the cars in front wear out their tyres faster than you do.

what we really need are tyres with a limited lifetime that can take some abuse

the tyres wearing out is good - but right now they go off/wear out in the wrong fashion. there is tread/rubber left but the tyres gets too hot and are no longer quick, so have to be changed. Pirelli should make a tyre that lasts 20 laps maximum but can be driven 100 % for the duration. keep the cliff, just make it appear due to tread wear and not thermal shock.

But then you will still have tyre conservation. No matter what they do, conservation will be a huge factor. The guy that storms for 20 laps will be at a disadvantage to the guy who can go almost as quick, but go for 28 laps, or some such.

[Rude-boy]

TheHeretic said:

But then you will still have tyre conservation. No matter what they do, conservation will be a huge factor. The guy that storms for 20 laps will be at a disadvantage to the guy who can go almost as quick, but go for 28 laps, or some such.

There is nothing artificial about the tyres being used. Just as there will always be a second or so in a fresh set of boots for 1-2 laps there will always be one chap/car who uses all that in a lap and one who can eak it out for 3 laps.

The most artificial thing about F1 is DRS. That said without DRS the racing would have been far poorer this year. I'm not talking about the easy assisted overtakes either but the events that occurred because 15 drivers weren't all running behind a Truli train and were able to clear cars that were slower than them much faster.

[Use Psychology]

the trick is to balance the degradation so that you can go faster enough by using the tyres to earn an enough time for an extra pit stop compared to the tyre whisperers.

[TheHeretic]

Use Psychology said:

the trick is to balance the degradation so that you can go faster enough by using the tyres to earn an enough time for an extra pit stop compared to the tyre whisperers.

Which is different to what we have now in what way?

[SeeFive]

Rumour has it that as well as the sprinklers discussed a couple of years ago, Bernie is suggesting that the tyres should be made of wood, with injectors laying molten butter on their surface every time a driver touches the brake pedal. It could make the racing more interesting while we wait for a regulation that can remove the aero problem, and the other DRS and designed-in deg tyre gimmicks that seek to minimise its negative impact.

Personally, I think that the tyres are helping the to improve the spectacle to some extent, but tend to agree with Michael that it is too extreme, and high intensity tyre management is winning races rather than outright driver skill and speed over a race distance.

Whilst machanical sympathy has always been a requirement in racing (first you must finish to finish first etc), I don't like the idea of tyre management being a race-winning skill that I would look for first in a top flight driver (and designer to some extent), but right now, it seems to be necessity.

That is a shame for the top flight of our sport IMO and I can see where Michael is coming from.

[Use Psychology]

TheHeretic said:

Which is different to what we have now in what way?

at the moment the tyres are not durable enough to be able to sustain full speed for long enough to earn the extra time - so everyone has to conserve tyres.

[TheHeretic]

Use Psychology said:

at the moment the tyres are not durable enough to be able to sustain full speed for long enough to earn the extra time - so everyone has to conserve tyres.

So it is simply that the advantage of going flat out all the time is not as advantageous as going at 95% and gaining the extra laps. That is how tyre management has been done since the inception of non-sprint races.

[DrTre]

Leithen said:

Rock hard bricks with limited adhesion, that could easily last several weekends would do for me. Crazy talk?

Pirelli already even have that tyre. Expect them to rock up with a truckful of p6000s soon.

[TheHeretic]

DrTre said:

Leithen said:

Rock hard bricks with limited adhesion, that could easily last several weekends would do for me. Crazy talk?

Pirelli already even have that tyre. Expect them to rock up with a truckful of p6000s soon.

That would be the worst scenario having overly durable tyres. The order they went into the first corner would be the order they came round the last corner.

[oldnwrinkly]

Would it not be possible to make a tyre that would last for the duration of a GP?
This would have to be a very hard compound - less sticky/grippy but also less likely to leave 'marbles'. This could increase overtaking opportunities as drivers would be able to move off the racing line without the severe consequences they might currently experience.

As to aero ... How many potentially exiting contests have you seen spoiled due to a front wing being damaged - often due to contact with one of the slower cars or or one being driven by a less experienced/less skilful driver? The front wings nowadays are so complicated with lots of small pieces of 'tupperware' tacked on and, as a consequence, incredibly fragile and prone to damage from the slightest touch or bump. IMO the regs should be revised to ensure they are simpler, more robust and, ideally, placed in a more protected area. Might not be bad if they were adjustable within prescribed limits.
I agree that the overall aero aspect should be sorted to decrease turbulence as this is huge factor re. the tyre issues.

[Munter]

oldnwrinkly said:

Would it not be possible to make a tyre that would last for the duration of a GP?
This would have to be a very hard compound - less sticky/grippy but also less likely to leave 'marbles'. This could increase overtaking opportunities as drivers would be able to move off the racing line without the severe consequences they might currently experience.

You do remember the season where they only had one set of tyres for the race? It did not provide the scenario you are thinking of.