Poll: Pirelli tyres
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Discussion
Pirelli says it is surprised at accusations from Michael Schumacher that the current generation of tyres are not allowing drivers to push their cars to the limit.
On the back of a frustrating afternoon in Bahrain, where Schumacher could not make the progress through the field that he had hoped for, the seven-time champion hit out at the way drivers are being forced to look after their tyres.
"The main thing I feel unhappy about is that everyone has to drive well below a driver's, and in particular, the car limits to maintain the tyres," he told BBC Radio 5.
"I just question whether the tyres should play such a big importance, or whether they should last a bit longer - and that you can drive at normal racing car speed and not cruise around like we have a safety car."
Pirelli's director of motorsport Paul Hembery said he was taken aback by those criticisms, especially because Schumacher had been so happy with the tyres throughout winter testing.
"I'm disappointed to hear those comments from someone of Michael's experience," he told AUTOSPORT. "Others were getting on with the job and getting their tyres to work. His comments during winter testing were that he was very happy with the tyres, and now he seems to have changed his tune."
Schumacher added in his post-race summary that he thinks Pirelli should reconsider its approach to tyres – because the problems of not being able to push to the limit were being experienced by too many people.
"I'm not happy about the situation, lets see what happens in future," explained the Mercedes driver. "If it would be a one-off car issue, then you could say it's up on us to deal with it.
"But basically it is everybody with maybe one or two exceptions. And if it is 80 per cent of the field that has this problem, then maybe the tyre supplier should think about that."
Personally, I do not like Mickey Mouse compounds being used to determine the outcome of a race. F1 tyres need to be fast and durable
Option should just just mean “qually”
On the back of a frustrating afternoon in Bahrain, where Schumacher could not make the progress through the field that he had hoped for, the seven-time champion hit out at the way drivers are being forced to look after their tyres.
"The main thing I feel unhappy about is that everyone has to drive well below a driver's, and in particular, the car limits to maintain the tyres," he told BBC Radio 5.
"I just question whether the tyres should play such a big importance, or whether they should last a bit longer - and that you can drive at normal racing car speed and not cruise around like we have a safety car."
Pirelli's director of motorsport Paul Hembery said he was taken aback by those criticisms, especially because Schumacher had been so happy with the tyres throughout winter testing.
"I'm disappointed to hear those comments from someone of Michael's experience," he told AUTOSPORT. "Others were getting on with the job and getting their tyres to work. His comments during winter testing were that he was very happy with the tyres, and now he seems to have changed his tune."
Schumacher added in his post-race summary that he thinks Pirelli should reconsider its approach to tyres – because the problems of not being able to push to the limit were being experienced by too many people.
"I'm not happy about the situation, lets see what happens in future," explained the Mercedes driver. "If it would be a one-off car issue, then you could say it's up on us to deal with it.
"But basically it is everybody with maybe one or two exceptions. And if it is 80 per cent of the field that has this problem, then maybe the tyre supplier should think about that."
Personally, I do not like Mickey Mouse compounds being used to determine the outcome of a race. F1 tyres need to be fast and durable
Option should just just mean “qually”
Like I said in the other thread I believe the current tyres are at the extremity of what's desirable in terms of durability however in an F1 era of ever increasing similarity in cars (through almost semi-standardised parts) and still being aero-dominated then having a variety of tyres is one of the few ways to introduce a differentiator into strategies.
If anything, make a broader range of tyre ability available at each race, ditch the stupid "got to use both types of two tyres" (WTF?) and let the teams pick what suits their car at a given track. Not a vast increased expense, but allows more freedom for the teams.
If anything, make a broader range of tyre ability available at each race, ditch the stupid "got to use both types of two tyres" (WTF?) and let the teams pick what suits their car at a given track. Not a vast increased expense, but allows more freedom for the teams.
It's not about going from one extreme to the other though; just not making the tyre degradation the overwhelmingly most important part of the weekend. When people start talking as though it is more important to save tyres in quali than get the highest grid position, you know something is wrong.
McClure said:
It's not about going from one extreme to the other though; just not making the tyre degradation the overwhelmingly most important part of the weekend. When people start talking as though it is more important to save tyres in quali than get the highest grid position, you know something is wrong.
Totally agree with all of that. So this would be the same Michael Schumacher who used to spend hours and hours pounding round the Ferrari test track as the prefered Bridgestone team, tailoring their construction and design to the exact set up of his car and the way he wanted to drive?
Which meant all the other Bridgestone teams were then expected to make do and mend even if the design and construction of the tyre didn't suit their car or drivers style. And he is now complaining at about the design of tyres?
"Michael, phone call for you. Its Mister Pot he has some black paint and a bag of old grapes for you,"
Which meant all the other Bridgestone teams were then expected to make do and mend even if the design and construction of the tyre didn't suit their car or drivers style. And he is now complaining at about the design of tyres?
"Michael, phone call for you. Its Mister Pot he has some black paint and a bag of old grapes for you,"
Currently qualifying is overrated... F1 should not be like that.
Cars should be able to be pushed to the limit...it's formula one!
It feels too artificial at the moment.
Did Kimi drop from 2nd to 10th at the last race? is that right.
FIA needs to tweak the regs again..
Look at DTM.. aero dependent like f1 and hardly any overtaking.
DRS and Kers are just a sticking plaster for the problem.
Cars should be able to be pushed to the limit...it's formula one!
It feels too artificial at the moment.
Did Kimi drop from 2nd to 10th at the last race? is that right.
FIA needs to tweak the regs again..
Look at DTM.. aero dependent like f1 and hardly any overtaking.
DRS and Kers are just a sticking plaster for the problem.
I think Formula 1 are starting to work out what the NASCAR organisers worked out years ago, motorsport is a 'show', it is about entertainment, if the show goes, so does the entertainment, followed by the fans and the money.
If they have to produce tyres like this to improve the show, why not? How durable do people what the tyres to be? 20 laps, 30 laps, 1 race, 2 races, a season? All of these are possible, but what we have at the minute, I firmly believe is the best for the 'show', which is, at the end of the day, what it is all about.
If they have to produce tyres like this to improve the show, why not? How durable do people what the tyres to be? 20 laps, 30 laps, 1 race, 2 races, a season? All of these are possible, but what we have at the minute, I firmly believe is the best for the 'show', which is, at the end of the day, what it is all about.
The Hypno-Toad said:
So this would be the same Michael Schumacher who used to spend hours and hours pounding round the Ferrari test track as the prefered Bridgestone team, tailoring their construction and design to the exact set up of his car and the way he wanted to drive?
Which meant all the other Bridgestone teams were then expected to make do and mend even if the design and construction of the tyre didn't suit their car or drivers style. And he is now complaining at about the design of tyres?
"Michael, phone call for you. Its Mister Pot he has some black paint and a bag of old grapes for you,"
However re the current tyres he reckons around 80% of the grid share his views. The "new " Schumi is now much more relaxed and diplomatic and since his comeback has yet to criticise his team or any other driver. Therefore he must have strong feelings on the current tyres. We can still surely have tyres that require a pit stop or two i.e they wear out, but all this crap from most of the teams about "getting them to work" is just bWhich meant all the other Bridgestone teams were then expected to make do and mend even if the design and construction of the tyre didn't suit their car or drivers style. And he is now complaining at about the design of tyres?
"Michael, phone call for you. Its Mister Pot he has some black paint and a bag of old grapes for you,"
ks.Edited by SRT77 on Sunday 22 April 20:43
The Hypno-Toad said:
So this would be the same Michael Schumacher who used to spend hours and hours pounding round the Ferrari test track as the prefered Bridgestone team, tailoring their construction and design to the exact set up of his car and the way he wanted to drive?
Which meant all the other Bridgestone teams were then expected to make do and mend even if the design and construction of the tyre didn't suit their car or drivers style. And he is now complaining at about the design of tyres?
"Michael, phone call for you. Its Mister Pot he has some black paint and a bag of old grapes for you,"
He was in a position to dominate the sport and took it... it got him several world championships.Which meant all the other Bridgestone teams were then expected to make do and mend even if the design and construction of the tyre didn't suit their car or drivers style. And he is now complaining at about the design of tyres?
"Michael, phone call for you. Its Mister Pot he has some black paint and a bag of old grapes for you,"
Any driver who had the opportunity to develop custom tyres would take it..they would be crazy not to.
Another problem with the higher tyre wear is that it tends to put all the drivers from about 3rd-4th down behind the midfield runners after the their pitstops. The midfield cars tend to be 2 stopping or doing longer stints. This can ruin their race as the waste their new tyres stuck behind slower runners, and it just allows the leaders to get clear from the pack. Ok the racing is good from about 4th down to 12th as the quicker cars try to come back through but their is little racing for the lead. If the tyres were good to about 20 laps or so this wouldn't be such an issue.
As others have said it shouldn't actually be an advantage to qualify outside the top 10 and save tires and benefit from the choice of tires which is what seems to be happening at the moment.
As others have said it shouldn't actually be an advantage to qualify outside the top 10 and save tires and benefit from the choice of tires which is what seems to be happening at the moment.
We can't get back to a situation where the tyres last the whole race - that was stupid. I think the first thing to do is to have qualifying tyres, separate from the allocation for the rest of the weekend, so that we get a proper grid.
And then we need to get to a situation with the race tyres where there isn't such of a "cliff" with performance; they need to go off slowly so that it's possible to push longer on old tyres before they die, and it's not so crucial to preserve the tyres so much. That should mean that someone with a very smooth style will be able to go long if they want.
And then we need to get to a situation with the race tyres where there isn't such of a "cliff" with performance; they need to go off slowly so that it's possible to push longer on old tyres before they die, and it's not so crucial to preserve the tyres so much. That should mean that someone with a very smooth style will be able to go long if they want.
davepoth said:
We can't get back to a situation where the tyres last the whole race - that was stupid.
exactly - you can't look at the tyres in isolation - current F1 is very very reliable, so it is almost unheard of for a high percentage of cars to have problems or perish the thought, not finish!MSc is probably looking whistfully back to 'his' era when the tyres were indestructable & tailored to his requirements!
Some might look back to 60's, 70's or 80's and say that you need the tyre competition from some of these times - but in those days, as well as quali tyres - that wouldn't last 5 minutes in a race, the cars themselves were fragile as hell! Yes, this year, even more than last year, they are having to nurse the tyres, but in previous decades they were nursing engines, gearboxes and just about everything else!
With reliable cars there must be variables that require the drivers to exert their skill, otherwise they will generally finish in more or less the order they start in - so in my view: damned well done Pirelli - keep up the good work!
Maybe it proves he's not as adaptable as some. He was very fit and ideally suited to flat out spring racing with refueling which only came in during the '94 season. I suspect a lot of his advantage from '94-05 was down to his fitness. Now he has to manage tires and has no unfair advantage over his team-mate. Really given his age, you'd assume the current regulations should play to his experience over not needing to be so fit but all his experience was in not having to manage tires and sometimes having bespoke bridgestones tailored only to Schumacher's requirements!
The regulations and tires are the same for everyone and this season's been brilliant so far. Shame they didn't introduce the current regs/tires in 2003!
The regulations and tires are the same for everyone and this season's been brilliant so far. Shame they didn't introduce the current regs/tires in 2003!
nosmallfiat said:
It's an hour and a half of tyre preservation, rarely if ever going flat out.
However, it's producing brilliant racing so stick with it I say.
Agreed. I don't want to see another 2010, where the passes were in the pits, getting the cars out in clean air, and not true strategy decisions.However, it's producing brilliant racing so stick with it I say.
For me, I don't think the cars are being forced to drive at the same speed because of tyre preservation, qualifying has shown that the absolute pace of the cars' is surprisingly similar and the tyres are only adding to that by adding an element of surprise to race day.
Edited by nice audi driver on Sunday 22 April 21:38
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