The Official Japanese GP Thread 2012 ***SPOILERS***
Discussion
hotmelt said:
Agree, and Lewis has been pretty clear he doesn't want team orders too, never crossed my mind that he should. Frankly I doubt Button would swap place with Lewis in the last race even if that was crucial for championship win. In fact he would not do that for sure, he first would not stand hamilton being champion.
More quality comedy from Hotmelt I'll reiterate the salient point, McL as a team did not even consider it. This highlights a tactical naivety that has shown itself more than once this season to the detriment of the drivers and ultimately the team.
For those in the know, who at McL should be making these calls in real time during a GP?
For those in the know, who at McL should be making these calls in real time during a GP?
andyps said:
hotmelt said:
Agree, and Lewis has been pretty clear he doesn't want team orders too, never crossed my mind that he should. Frankly I doubt Button would swap place with Lewis in the last race even if that was crucial for championship win. In fact he would not do that for sure, he first would not stand hamilton being champion.
I don't agree with you, but if you have insider evidence it would be interesting. He wouldn't give up his own championship for any other driver, but if out of contention himself I suspect he would do what was right for the team and gaining the world drivers championship for the team, even a driver who is leaving, would be very beneficial.
That (wo)man hotmelt is a resident nutcase in these parts. Or... 
he might be using Google Translate to post here and whatever he wants to say is getting lost in the translation. Either way, the bile he spews forth about Button is nothing short of astonishing, and is only matched by his obsessive fanboyist ravings about Hamilton. It is always advisable to steer well clear of his postings and not respond. Dr Z said:
andyps said:
hotmelt said:
Agree, and Lewis has been pretty clear he doesn't want team orders too, never crossed my mind that he should. Frankly I doubt Button would swap place with Lewis in the last race even if that was crucial for championship win. In fact he would not do that for sure, he first would not stand hamilton being champion.
I don't agree with you, but if you have insider evidence it would be interesting. He wouldn't give up his own championship for any other driver, but if out of contention himself I suspect he would do what was right for the team and gaining the world drivers championship for the team, even a driver who is leaving, would be very beneficial. That (wo)man hotmelt is a resident nutcase in these parts. Or... he might be using Google Translate to post here and whatever he wants to say is getting lost in the translation. Either way, the bile he spews forth about Button is nothing short of astonishing, and is only matched by his obsessive fanboyist ravings about Hamilton. It is always advisable to steer well clear of his postings and not respond. Dr Z said:
.
...Insider info? Are you serious? That (wo)man hotmelt is a resident nutcase in these parts. Or... he might be using Google Translate to post here and whatever he wants to say is getting lost in the translation. Either way, the bile he spews forth about Button is nothing short of astonishing, and is only matched by his obsessive fanboyist ravings about Hamilton. It is always advisable to steer well clear of his postings and not respond.
.
Wow!...Insider info? Are you serious?
That (wo)man hotmelt is a resident nutcase in these parts. Or... he might be using Google Translate to post here and whatever he wants to say is getting lost in the translation. Either way, the bile he spews forth about Button is nothing short of astonishing, and is only matched by his obsessive fanboyist ravings about Hamilton. It is always advisable to steer well clear of his postings and not respond. .
Thanks for the heads up on that Dr Z. I hadn't realised hotmelt was a resident nutcase Hamilton obsessive...
OK ... I'll put my hands up ... I lied about that and shall now Button it ...
HarryW said:
I'll reiterate the salient point, McL as a team did not even consider it. This highlights a tactical naivety that has shown itself more than once this season to the detriment of the drivers and ultimately the team.
For those in the know, who at McL should be making these calls in real time during a GP?
There's nothing salient about your point at all. McLaren didn't need to move Button over for Hamilton, as yet there is still no clear championship lead for HAM over BUT.For those in the know, who at McL should be making these calls in real time during a GP?
Did you even read what I wrote about what happened to Red Bull in 2010?
HarryW said:
I'll reiterate the salient point, McL as a team did not even consider it. This highlights a tactical naivety that has shown itself more than once this season to the detriment of the drivers and ultimately the team.
For those in the know, who at McL should be making these calls in real time during a GP?
Then it could cause Button to lose the championship by one point. Both drivers have a chance.For those in the know, who at McL should be making these calls in real time during a GP?
stephen300o said:
HarryW said:
I'll reiterate the salient point, McL as a team did not even consider it. This highlights a tactical naivety that has shown itself more than once this season to the detriment of the drivers and ultimately the team.
For those in the know, who at McL should be making these calls in real time during a GP?
Then it could cause Button to lose the championship by one point. Both drivers have a chance.For those in the know, who at McL should be making these calls in real time during a GP?
oyster said:
HarryW said:
I'll reiterate the salient point, McL as a team did not even consider it. This highlights a tactical naivety that has shown itself more than once this season to the detriment of the drivers and ultimately the team.
For those in the know, who at McL should be making these calls in real time during a GP?
There's nothing salient about your point at all. McLaren didn't need to move Button over for Hamilton, as yet there is still no clear championship lead for HAM over BUT.For those in the know, who at McL should be making these calls in real time during a GP?
Did you even read what I wrote about what happened to Red Bull in 2010?
My original post followed and quoted the link to the Autosport interview where Paddy Low stated that there was not a discussion McL about letting LH pass JB. If you are exploring tactics then this was an obvious thing to have discussed, but it wasn't the McL Technical Director said so.
The outcome of that discussion may have concluded, as you have both done here with more than a little hindsight, that no change was necessary on the day, Paddy could have said that it was considered and dismissed for varying reasons, even the one posted here, but he didn't.
My thinking is that Tactics are short term 'reactions' that can support a longer term Stratergy. Whilst 2 points does not seem a lot, JB is so far behind the leaders that apart from a purely mathematical standpoint he cannot catch them, pre race Strategy could have informed them of that allowing for a Tactical decision t be made on the pit wall towards the end of the race. If you consider that there are 42 points difference from LH to FA it could have been 40, that difference equates to a win and second place to be in front of him, however now a win and third puts him on equal points (for simplicity). Pre race Strategy and real time scenario running would have also identified that allowing for a Tactical decision to be made. If your Strategy is to have one of your drivers win the drivers championship but not harm the constructors title then the tactics at this race did not seem to support it.
I maintain this shows that McL has a poor grasp of both tactics and strategy, beyond they want both drivers to win, so long as they are in front. Unless their strategy is to win the constructors title and not care who wins the drivers title, which reading back fits the events best.
Edited to add all IMHO
Edited by HarryW on Wednesday 10th October 20:29
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