Schu has retired again

[AdvocatusD]

Wanta996Gotta said:

superkartracer said:

Wanta996Gotta said:

SRT77 said:

MGJohn said:

Me too. He has enhanced his legacy. The records will never be changed. Not for this first time do I see things differently to the PH MSC naysayers.

F1 will be less interesting as a result of no MSC in the future listings.

That's exactly the way I see it. Who to support now. Quite like Kimi and his don't give a st attitude, but I expect that extends to fans as well.

Enhanced in what way exactly? Penalities and crashes?? He has been a big disapointment IMO and i cant think of ONE positive thing that he has brought to F1 since his return.

And as for his well documented car-developing skills?? The car has went backwards over the 3 years.

And before any fanboys have a go, just give me some examples of how he has "enhanced" his legacy.

P.S. He has just said himself that he was dissapointed that he could not help develop the car and also understands the criticism of his performances. I guess thats one positive then.

Edited by Wanta996Gotta on Thursday 4th October 10:35

Alonso rates him highly v some Travel Technology guy on PH?

What else would you expect a fellow proffesional F1 driver to say?? He is Sh#t now that he doesnt have an FIA backed dominant car that can lap the whole field and win races in 1 gear?

I asked what has he done to enhance his reputation since he came back?

At the age of 43 and in what everyone accepts is not the best car, he qualified first at Monaco (tainted by the fact he had the penalty). That's a driver's track as I understand it. He's out qualified his younger (and highly rated by some) teammate 4 times in the last 5 races, and leads him 7 - 6 in qualifying this season as I understand it. He's not the force he was and he has made some bad racing errors, but anyone who was expecting him to be (including MSC himself perhaps) that kind of dominating presence again was being a little silly.

I have enjoyed his comeback hugely. It's sad how he has been made to justify the rest of his career because of people like Andrew Benson (and some people on this thread) putting in their usual two-pence of "judgment". Arguably the greatest (certainly one of the most successful) racing driver ever.

There's an entire thread dedicated to rubbishing his "first" career, but I've been around enough sportspeople and followed enough sports to see some merit IMO in the statement "you can't argue with success".

Give the devil his due.

Edited by AdvocatusD on Thursday 4th October 11:55

[CiderwithCerbie]

Mini1275 said:

Good, I don't think he added much to the spectacle by coming back.

In my opinion.

---

CiderwithCerbie after waking up this morning and reading the news:

I was wide awake - errr nine hours ahead?

Serious comment: I am neutral about his return to F1 in terms of what he added to the circus. The battle for supremacy was always way in front of him and the Merc has been a dog which even his 'great development skills' failed to advance.

The last three years have not added to his overall reputation it has detracted from the invicibility myth rather like Singapore in 1942 did for the Empire. However it has had one positive effect, the Barichello incident really changed him. The criticism was unanimous and really brought him up short. Bernie & his own PR machine had to do a massive damage limitation exercise. He has not challenged anyone in that characteristic arrogant way, which, IMHO, was the biggest stain on his reputation, character & legacy again, and funnily enough he never looked really competitive after that either. I'm not sure if they are related or not or whether the whole 2010-2012 failure was simply age related or a true mark of where he stands in the F1 pantheon. The whole return to F1 fiasco (with spiralling expectations year by year + straw clutching acheivements x2 - Monaco - give him that one, a gifted podium - not much cop), certainly has not changed my opinon of his overall record one jot.

PS I am not fooled by the large number of MSC fanboys who have come out with "I never used to be a big Scumacher fan but now I think his great" routine. That's the oldest trick in the political book vote against your hero on the way in to the debate & for him on the way out, to push the swing in his favour. What on earth has he done in the last 3 years to make you think he's so great? Look at my links in the MSC to Sauber thread - in 2010 he (and Mika - WTF!) really believed that he would win races if not the WDC. Bookies thought he would be third?!? Everyone's judgement was way out & it simply is not just a matter of the car. Read his quotes today, despite his reduced bad behaviour post trying to kill Rubens there is still no humility at all. Now we have two months of the MSC retirement circus displacing the focus on a fascinating & competitive WDC + the horrible possibility that Mudley Talker will put him top of the F1 drivers list. I hope he follows his own advice that stats aren't everything (see the Sir Stirling article) and puts him behind Fangio Clark & Senna (and Nuovolari if he was eligible).

Good riddance don't come back again There are many who won't miss you and F1 can be purged of a pernicious influence once and for all.

PPS I have more hair than Jean-Luc and am better looking according to my myopic wife...

Edited by CiderwithCerbie on Thursday 4th October 12:36

[superkartracer]

Wanta996Gotta said:

superkartracer said:

Wanta996Gotta said:

SRT77 said:

MGJohn said:

Me too. He has enhanced his legacy. The records will never be changed. Not for this first time do I see things differently to the PH MSC naysayers.

F1 will be less interesting as a result of no MSC in the future listings.

That's exactly the way I see it. Who to support now. Quite like Kimi and his don't give a st attitude, but I expect that extends to fans as well.

Enhanced in what way exactly? Penalities and crashes?? He has been a big disapointment IMO and i cant think of ONE positive thing that he has brought to F1 since his return.

And as for his well documented car-developing skills?? The car has went backwards over the 3 years.

And before any fanboys have a go, just give me some examples of how he has "enhanced" his legacy.

P.S. He has just said himself that he was dissapointed that he could not help develop the car and also understands the criticism of his performances. I guess thats one positive then.

Edited by Wanta996Gotta on Thursday 4th October 10:35

Alonso rates him highly v some Travel Technology guy on PH?

What else would you expect a fellow proffesional F1 driver to say?? He is Sh#t now that he doesnt have an FIA backed dominant car that can lap the whole field and win races in 1 gear?

I asked what has he done to enhance his reputation since he came back?

The fact he's 43 and driving brutal machines on the body/mind and rather fast to boot , enough for me tbh, impressive indeed.

[robmlufc]

Nothing to do with body and mind not coping, theres blokes blasting around Le Mans for 4 hours putting in top times who are older than Schumacher. Wouldn't be surprised to see him in a Merc engined LMP in 2014.

[Wanta996Gotta]

superkartracer said:

Wanta996Gotta said:

superkartracer said:

Wanta996Gotta said:

SRT77 said:

MGJohn said:

Me too. He has enhanced his legacy. The records will never be changed. Not for this first time do I see things differently to the PH MSC naysayers.

F1 will be less interesting as a result of no MSC in the future listings.

That's exactly the way I see it. Who to support now. Quite like Kimi and his don't give a st attitude, but I expect that extends to fans as well.

Enhanced in what way exactly? Penalities and crashes?? He has been a big disapointment IMO and i cant think of ONE positive thing that he has brought to F1 since his return.

And as for his well documented car-developing skills?? The car has went backwards over the 3 years.

And before any fanboys have a go, just give me some examples of how he has "enhanced" his legacy.

P.S. He has just said himself that he was dissapointed that he could not help develop the car and also understands the criticism of his performances. I guess thats one positive then.

Edited by Wanta996Gotta on Thursday 4th October 10:35

Alonso rates him highly v some Travel Technology guy on PH?

What else would you expect a fellow proffesional F1 driver to say?? He is Sh#t now that he doesnt have an FIA backed dominant car that can lap the whole field and win races in 1 gear?

I asked what has he done to enhance his reputation since he came back?

The fact he's 43 and driving brutal machines on the body/mind and rather fast to boot , enough for me tbh, impressive indeed.

That it?? Your easily impressed then. Rubens Barrichello and De la Rosa must really get you going then.

[superkartracer]

Considering theres some several billion people on this rock and two or three in their 40's drive these monsters at that a level, yep very much so.

You don't know much about fitness do you?

[Wanta996Gotta]

superkartracer said:

Considering theres some several billion people on this rock and two or three in their 40's drive these monsters at that a level, yep very much so.

You don't know much about fitness do you?

Keep digging Superkart..........................

[superkartracer]

robmlufc said:

Nothing to do with body and mind not coping, theres blokes blasting around Le Mans for 4 hours putting in top times who are older than Schumacher. Wouldn't be surprised to see him in a Merc engined LMP in 2014.

Apart from them being much slower/brutal machines?

[superkartracer]

Wanta996Gotta said:

superkartracer said:

Considering theres some several billion people on this rock and two or three in their 40's drive these monsters at that a level, yep very much so.

You don't know much about fitness do you?

Keep digging Superkart..........................

So fat/unfit then and very jealous be the sounds of things.

[robmlufc]

superkartracer said:

Apart from them being much slower/brutal machines?

Not much slower, more downforce, 4 hours as opposed to 90 minutes.. in the dark.

[Wanta996Gotta]

superkartracer said:

Wanta996Gotta said:

superkartracer said:

Considering theres some several billion people on this rock and two or three in their 40's drive these monsters at that a level, yep very much so.

You don't know much about fitness do you?

Keep digging Superkart..........................

So fat/unfit then and very jealous be the sounds of things.

lol, if only you knew. Far from it.

So back on topic, Schumi has enhanced his reputation because at 43 he drove a current F1 car?..................badly may i add considering the crashes and penalties.

[superkartracer]

It was great seeing the Red Barron back tbh, it added to the sport and gave people something to chat about, personally i enjoyed it.

But it's time to go.

[El Guapo]

Michael Schumacher said:

"my batteries were empty and now they're in the red zone again" "I got the heave-ho from Ferrari and now I've been given the heave-ho by Mercedes"

EFA

PSBuckshot said:

Shame, he's more than a match for Rosberg now as well.

Which isn't saying much.

He was a man of his time, but that was a few years ago. Retirement is the right decision.

Edited by El Guapo on Thursday 4th October 13:15

[NISaxoVTR]

Sad to see even the worst villains (if you consider him that) limp out of the arena. The last couple of seasons have been like watching Tyson getting battered in his last fights. I wouldn't begrudge him one more win.

[oyster]

There seems to be some correlation between the level of Hamilton fanboyism and the level of dislike for Michael Schumacher.

Maybe it's an age thing, maybe it's jealousy over the number of championships. Or more likely it's just a lack of experience of F1.

I shall never forget Monza 2011 and watching 'the best overtaker in F1' repeatedly fail to get past the old man of the track. I suppose he got his seat though, so maybe Lewis won that battle in the end!

[TIGA84]

Wanta996Gotta said:

+1

Sorry but thats rubbish. His legacy will always come down to the raw numbers. He's still 7 time WDC regardless. He could go and race lawnmowers in Latvia and his legacy would remain.

[CiderwithCerbie]

TIGA84 said:

Sorry but thats rubbish. His legacy will always come down to the raw numbers. He's still 7 time WDC regardless. He could go and race lawnmowers in Latvia and his legacy would remain.

You need to read Murray Walker on Sir Stirling it is NOT all about numbers

PS you are correct that his legacy won't be changed not matter what he does next. He's a vicious cheat & a stain on the history of the sport in the eyes of many. We are not a tiny minority & hence he divides opinion & forgoes any aspiration to true greatness.

There is no such division of opinon about Clark, Stewart, Fangio or even non-WDC Moss amongst others hence respect is universal and they are the true Motorsport greats.

[Streps]

He has made the right decision.
Shame that Mercedes have not been able to continue their 2009 performances like Red Bull have.
they are just not good enough.

I've enjoyed him racing personally..he adds something to the grid.
Wonder what he will do next DTM or race bikes again?

[Alfanatic]

Eric Mc said:

I never liked him in his first incarnation in F1. I was delighted when he retired.

I was dubious when he anounced his comeback - but I've actually enjoyed his second stint a lot.

Retiring now is the right decsion.

I'm with this exactly, though whether it's the right time to retire or not is up to him and the team principles, IMO. Schumy will know when he's had enough.

I didn't like him in his first career but he's won my respect with his second. I suppose the difference between me and Cider / WannaGotta is that even though I was never a fan of his the first time around, I never doubted that he was an extraordinarily talented driver, the most complete I've ever seen in F1. Just a pity he is also a cheat. He annoyed me because I thought he didn't have to cheat and he would still have been a prolific record breaker. I think that Cider / Wanna think that without the cheating he'd have maybe been a 1 or 2 championship guy or less. That's the difference.

[vonuber]

I am shocked and disapointed that it took until the 9th reply until Cider showed up.