RE: Loeb wins ninth - and last - WRC title
Discussion
400SE Dave said:
Clearly a talented guy and deserves the plaudits however WRC is really not interesting any longer and since it has gone to pay TV I guess even less so to many.
Bring back Group B
Group B was banned for a reason, it irritates the hell out of me when people call for it back. Free form works in Formulas like F1, it doesn't work (as proven in the 80s) in Rallying.Bring back Group B
My favourite memory of SL is seeing him go off in a Pescarolo coming out of Indianapolis and (seemingly) just keeping his foot in across grass and gravel before getting back on the tarmac in time for Arnage.
A truly great driver - will be interesting to see what he does in a touring car.
A truly great driver - will be interesting to see what he does in a touring car.
It's not as interesting any more because they changed the format to make it work on tv, then it got too expensive so the manufacturers dropped out, no money in the sport, no one wants to sponsor the events because they aren't really highly featured anymore. It's a sad state of affairs considering how only 10 years ago there were so many more manufacturers. It needs a rethink desperately, but what to do. People clamouring on here for RWD and things, that wouldn't help the variety, you'd just end up with a field of GT86's and 3-series, if anyone bothered at all. Group A was the best idea, but it can never be done again. Still, all this doesn't detract from Loebs achievements, incredible. And against stiff competition mostly, despite having a better team around him, who can say Solberg or Gronholm aren't up there with the best?
jason61c said:
He might have won nine but for how many of those was it a one horse race? With a tiny field etc?
It's never been a one horse race. He's competed against every top line driver for the last 10 years. Solberg, Sainz, Gronholm, Hirvonen, Latvala are all great drivers, driving manufacturer-supported cars, they're just not as good as Loeb.
His team-mates' results confirm to me that it's not his car bringing the phenomenal results but I'd have loved to have seen him in a Ford or a VW from next year, just to prove 100% that it's him and not the Citroen.
He frustrates and impresses me in equal measure. His brilliance has made the sport boring but you can't help but admire the skill.
D.no said:
"We have to look beyond rallying before we find any significance in his ninth title. Valentino Rossi currently boasts nine championships to his credit; if we include Loeb’s Junior World Rally Championship crown from 2001 (which is fair given that two of Rossi’s titles were achieved in feeder categories) the diminutive Frenchman can be adjudged to be motorsport’s most successful competitor."
What about Dougie Lampkin - 12 times World trials champion? Not as high profile maybe, but no less a feat of dedication, commitment, and shear talent.
Don't forget Stefan Everts too...What about Dougie Lampkin - 12 times World trials champion? Not as high profile maybe, but no less a feat of dedication, commitment, and shear talent.
The man has immense talent and is like the Messi of the car world.
However, and this is purely personal opinion, he has put me off of watching WRC because almost every rally was/is a forgone conclusion.
The same happened with Schumacher throughout his dominance. I just couldn't get excited about any of his races.
I will tune into the 2013 season and see how the championship pans out.
However, and this is purely personal opinion, he has put me off of watching WRC because almost every rally was/is a forgone conclusion.
The same happened with Schumacher throughout his dominance. I just couldn't get excited about any of his races.
I will tune into the 2013 season and see how the championship pans out.
Crow555 said:
400SE Dave said:
Clearly a talented guy and deserves the plaudits however WRC is really not interesting any longer and since it has gone to pay TV I guess even less so to many.
Bring back Group B
Group B was banned for a reason, it irritates the hell out of me when people call for it back. Free form works in Formulas like F1, it doesn't work (as proven in the 80s) in Rallying.Bring back Group B
It worked too well. Id have tweaked the format personally...with the 4wd cars being pegged at a lower power rating whilst the rwd only boys could explore much more power. You would have kept the cars, but cut the speeds into the corners, but kept the spectacular on the exits of corners. It was the entry and carry speeds that made Gp B ludicrous for the times, combined with woeful spectator control.
In fact you *could* make an argument for the return of "Gp B" and bewinged, mid engined monsters if you mandated effective crowd control to organisers. You want instant publicity?
"GROUP B IS BACK!!!" across Autosport, Autocar, Motor Sport, Top Gear mags in the UK and every motoring mag in Europe.
Instant PR. Instant impact. Then line up a PR campaign of everyone from Hopkirk to Loeb delivering a cheeky ad campaign message of "F1 is for wimps, real men do it in the forest" with a 5 second clip of the headlights of a Quattro in the dawn gloom of Grizedale, then slamming past on full lock, 5 pot blaring away, then disappearing, sound track lingering in the air.
In fact f
k it, I can write the advert for you and put 100,000 through the gates of the Rally of Great Britain as a cast iron, copper plated gaurantee.You give the punters that, a proper 1000 Lakes, a proper Monte and the Safari and you have the makings of a pukka rally championship again.
Such a strange situation, every one (mostly) loves Rossi and love seeing him win, but so many people dont like Loebs achievements and wont to see him loose!
The two are very similar, perhaps as their stats prove, but mention Rossi had no real competition and was pretty much always been on the best machine and they go apoplectic.
To win 9 titles is dominance in anyones books and you could try and use the pub talk type, ah yeah, but if he was competing in that car or on that bike against "x", they wouldnt have won, but its just hearsay, in my opinion you can only look at the facts presented, both are simply the best of their time hands down!
The two are very similar, perhaps as their stats prove, but mention Rossi had no real competition and was pretty much always been on the best machine and they go apoplectic.
To win 9 titles is dominance in anyones books and you could try and use the pub talk type, ah yeah, but if he was competing in that car or on that bike against "x", they wouldnt have won, but its just hearsay, in my opinion you can only look at the facts presented, both are simply the best of their time hands down!
Except nobody would enter because a group B car would be ridiculously expensive to develop, even before it was banned they were talking about how to replace it. The replacement was going to be Group S, essentially it would be a prototype series, Lancia even built a demo car.
4WD prototype rally cars with a power restriction (don't kid yourself about people bothering to enter something RWD) actually did exist, it just took another 15 or so years for them to turn up.
Here is what we ended up with...
4WD prototype rally cars with a power restriction (don't kid yourself about people bothering to enter something RWD) actually did exist, it just took another 15 or so years for them to turn up.
Here is what we ended up with...
DJRC said:
Crow555 said:
400SE Dave said:
Clearly a talented guy and deserves the plaudits however WRC is really not interesting any longer and since it has gone to pay TV I guess even less so to many.
Bring back Group B
Group B was banned for a reason, it irritates the hell out of me when people call for it back. Free form works in Formulas like F1, it doesn't work (as proven in the 80s) in Rallying.Bring back Group B
It worked too well. Id have tweaked the format personally...with the 4wd cars being pegged at a lower power rating whilst the rwd only boys could explore much more power. You would have kept the cars, but cut the speeds into the corners, but kept the spectacular on the exits of corners. It was the entry and carry speeds that made Gp B ludicrous for the times, combined with woeful spectator control.
In fact you *could* make an argument for the return of "Gp B" and bewinged, mid engined monsters if you mandated effective crowd control to organisers. You want instant publicity?
"GROUP B IS BACK!!!" across Autosport, Autocar, Motor Sport, Top Gear mags in the UK and every motoring mag in Europe.
Instant PR. Instant impact. Then line up a PR campaign of everyone from Hopkirk to Loeb delivering a cheeky ad campaign message of "F1 is for wimps, real men do it in the forest" with a 5 second clip of the headlights of a Quattro in the dawn gloom of Grizedale, then slamming past on full lock, 5 pot blaring away, then disappearing, sound track lingering in the air.
In fact f
k it, I can write the advert for you and put 100,000 through the gates of the Rally of Great Britain as a cast iron, copper plated gaurantee.You give the punters that, a proper 1000 Lakes, a proper Monte and the Safari and you have the makings of a pukka rally championship again.
There's a thread running on it already in the motorsport forums, but it seems to me that the ex-IRC/now-ERC has a lot of the great road-races and rallies in its repertoire (Tour de Corse, Targa Florio etc). I reckon the WRC and ERC should merge, and teams can enter multiple cars so drivers can switch between R5 (new homologation-based replacement class for WRC) and RGT cars depending on terrain.
I think there's scope for having another major rally in Britain too. The WRC has been confined to Wales and the IRC to Ireland for the past ten years or so. I reckon we could rename the Wales Rally GB simply 'Rally Wales', then have another one focused on Grizedale, Kielder, and the roads in between, call it 'North England Rally' or something.
Alx323 said:
People clamouring on here for RWD and things, that wouldn't help the variety, you'd just end up with a field of GT86's and 3-series, if anyone bothered at all. Group A was the best idea, but it can never be done again.
It can and it is. Group R regulations are basically a return to Group A, whilst RGT is effectively Group B, but with a 2WD-only rule (in practice, probably RWD unless Peugeot decide to enter a bonkers tuned-to-buggery RCZ).New homologation rules mean that most of the cars are going to have to be production-based with at least 2500 built per year. Rather than making it all more expensive, this could make it cheaper as teams are going to have to work with road cars that don't cost manufacturers too much to make.
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