Brands Hatch BTCC

Author
Discussion

Mini1275

11,098 posts

181 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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Rob Austin's car looks absolutely fantastic.

touring fan

376 posts

211 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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Ponk said:
Interesting that Mat Jackson is going to be even faster. That will spice things up. biggrin

The measure of increase for the Vectras and S2000 Foci must be into warp factors by now!
Nah. Those numbers are changes to the original boost settings from the start of the season and not increases from boost settings from last race meeting. They dont accumulate! So they're meaningless to us as we don't know all the original boost settings. The teams have that info though.

The Wookie

13,909 posts

227 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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mike88 said:
Some interesting adjustments. How much is a 0.050 increase in real terms though, PSI/BAR etc?? How much difference does it really make?
It's in Bar, and the difference it makes depends on the specific engine, as each runs different levels of base boost. Typically though one might expect about 10-15bhp from such a tweak.

LiamM45

1,035 posts

179 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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0.7psi boost increase for the Hondas? (that's what my maths make 0.050bar to be)

is that even noticeable?

Vocal Minority

8,582 posts

151 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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The Audi looks the knackers.

The Wookie

13,909 posts

227 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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LiamM45 said:
0.7psi boost increase for the Hondas? (that's what my maths make 0.050bar to be)

is that even noticeable?
You'd be surprised. It's not really noticeable as a driver but it is noticeable in terms of lap times. If it gives you 10bhp, it gives you the corresponding increase in torque throughout the rev range, not just at the top end.

ETA - Also worth bearing in mind that if you're looking at Honda vs MG, that there's actually been a 0.1 bar exchange, so it could be as much as 30bhp that's been swapped.

It will be very interesting to see how it pans out.

Edited by The Wookie on Wednesday 17th October 11:53

LiamM45

1,035 posts

179 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
quotequote all
I'm putting Dave Newsham down as a dark horse to upset the title race. 0.1 bar boost increase and he was bloody quick here last year.

Lots of speculation but I'm genuinely excited for this meeting now! Pity I have to watch it at work on my phone! frown

mike88

Original Poster:

362 posts

155 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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The Wookie said:
It's in Bar, and the difference it makes depends on the specific engine, as each runs different levels of base boost. Typically though one might expect about 10-15bhp from such a tweak.
Thanks, i guess its only half the story without knowing what boost they/you had at Silverstone though. If the MG previously had 0.100 and now has 0.000 vs the honda getting 0.050 is a big difference as you say, essentially a possible 0.150 difference avaliable.

Mark Benson

7,498 posts

268 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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The Wookie said:
It will be very interesting to see how it pans out.
Aint' that the truth.....

Good luck for the weekend.

zeb

3,193 posts

217 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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sheddon will win....gows engineered it

Vocal Minority

8,582 posts

151 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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zeb said:
sheddon will win....gows engineered it
Look! Its decadence's evil twin!

The Wookie

13,909 posts

227 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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Mark Benson said:
Aint' that the truth.....

Good luck for the weekend.
Cheers thumbup

decadence

502 posts

157 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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Personally that sucks a little bit. I want a fair equal fight (as much as possible in motorsport terms) on track between the title contenders. I really hope and pray these boosts dont work out so the Hondas are flying off into distance with Mat Jackson and JP is mid pack.
Hopefully as someone pointed out these boosts dont mean that much without knowing what they had last time out.. but would imagine at Silverstone MG had possibly 30bhp more than Honda...well explains alot and i hope Gow knows what hes doing.....
No good if MG and Honda arent battling on same bit of tarmac for BH....fingers crossed...

decadence

502 posts

157 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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jasonplato said:
For all those people who may be interested, below are the boost adjustments for Brands Hatch BTCC Finals


Audi A4 NGTC 0.100
Honda Civic NGTC 0.050
MG 6 NGTC TOCA 0.000
Proton NGTC TOCA 0.075
Toyota Avensis NGTC 0.075
Toyota Avensis NGTC TOCA 0.100
Vauxhall Insignia NGTC TOCA 0.125
BMW S2000 T 0.075
Ford Focus NGTC 0.050
Ford Focus S2000 T 0.100
Honda Civic S2000 T 0.100
Vauxhall Vectra S2000 T TOCA 0.100
VW Golf S2000 T 0.125
In Jasons defence i can see now why he moaned after Knockhill. Have the Focus S2000 always had 1 bar more? Thats about 30 bhp and shed loads more torque!
I imagine at Silverstone Honda NGTC had nil boost and the old Civic of Fullers probably was running 0.100 bar which explains why it was faster and nearly over took Sheddon in the Civic 2012.

That list confirms how stupid it all is currently...Alan Gow as the puppet master...hero maker...dream creator...or dream stealer..

Dont get me wrong i'll be watching with excited anticipation come Sunday....but i shall now take and even keener interest in quali times as i can see via the boosts from Plato who goes where..from those boosts i can pretty much predict the grid top to bottom...

I will say this...watch out for Austin Sunday..i can see possible win...new sponsors, nice bit of boost..


Edited by decadence on Wednesday 17th October 17:55

decadence

502 posts

157 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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From BTCC.NET from Mr Plato...


Some people have asked for the Silverstone Boost adjustments.

Audi A4 NGTC 0.125
Honda Civic NGTC 0.000
MG 6 NGTC TOCA 0.050
Proton NGTC TOCA 0.100
Toyota Avensis NGTC 0.100
Toyota Avensis NGTC TOCA 0.075
Vauxhall Insignia NGTC TOCA 0.100
BMW S2000 T 0.050
Ford Focus NGTC 0.075
Ford Focus S2000 T 0.100
Honda Civic S2000 T 0.125
Vauxhall Vectra S2000 T TOCA 0.125
VW Golf S2000 T 0.125


Explains ALOT.


Edited by decadence on Wednesday 17th October 18:02

IainW

1,631 posts

174 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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decadence said:
well explains alot and i hope Gow knows what hes doing.....
Gow hasn't done anything! It's a formula which has been going all season long. He can't tinker with boost willy nilly to engineer anything. It's just worked out very nicely for him so there is a final event shootout. Take the super cynical specs off please.

decadence

502 posts

157 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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IainW said:
decadence said:
well explains alot and i hope Gow knows what hes doing.....
Gow hasn't done anything! It's a formula which has been going all season long. He can't tinker with boost willy nilly to engineer anything. It's just worked out very nicely for him so there is a final event shootout. Take the super cynical specs off please.
Must be great to have your outlook, but I'm afraid its a bit deluded. Its very design is to keep cars equal...so i think you'll find Gow CAN tinker with it!

I'm not being cynical, but i reckon you could now go and see qualifying times for each round and work out who had a boost increase and who had a boost decrease..for example when Wrathal was doing well it was boost increase..when he struggled...boost decrease or others had a bigger increase..its false dosent leave enough for driver / team achievements....

My point still stands...boost tinkering is in danger of making this year a mockery...
i.e at Silverstone Plato had possibly 30-40 bhp more than the Hondas to play with and was in the distance compared to them...at Brands thats reversed....surely the MG and Honda shoudl be equal boosts?


Edited by decadence on Wednesday 17th October 18:40

anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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Something that i haven't seen mentioned in this or the last thread in relation to straight line speed is aerodynamics. How much drag do we think the Honda has/doesnt have in relation to the MG and are some cars clearly more Aerodynamic than others to the point where they can gain an extra MPH or two over other cars.

decadence

502 posts

157 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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tux said:
Something that i haven't seen mentioned in this or the last thread in relation to straight line speed is aerodynamics. How much drag do we think the Honda has/doesnt have in relation to the MG and are some cars clearly more Aerodynamic than others to the point where they can gain an extra MPH or two over other cars.
Most likely yes, clearly the aero makes a world of difference, just see 1994 for proof! But this is the problem, the boost can hide a multitude of sins, create a bad race car and get more boost to hide its faults.
I'm struggling to think which car looks the most slippery... i would suggest aero for cornering is better needed than aero for straight line gain in speed...
Interesting question.
Would say the hatchbacks be better than a saloon like the Audi? that Audi is like a brick.

IainW

1,631 posts

174 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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decadence said:
Must be great to have your outlook, but I'm afraid its a bit deluded. Its very design is to keep cars equal...so i think you'll find Gow CAN tinker with it!
I am not deluded, thank you very much. Alan Gow can't change the boost settings mid-season. He could fiddle with them in 2011, hence the Toyota and Audi were like rocketships at times, but not now. I've seen the boost increase or lack of increase figures for a few rounds this year and the cars with more boost have performed as I expected.

Edited by IainW on Wednesday 17th October 19:47