RE: Deltawing sent flying

[zebedee]

hunt_the_fox said:

Had a quick look at this- here is an interview with the driver of the Nissan who was at the scene of the accident and he didn't think that the Porsche was out of control, he thought that the driver was moving to the apex and didn't see him...

http://www.deltawingracing.com/news/2012/10/17/gun...

I can't view the clip as it is barred at work but has he seen the replays? Gunnar is a cool cat and I don't think he would hold a grudge or refuse to change his view. If he hasn't seen the replays then his focus would have been way past the Porsche before he even moved up on him so he wouldn't be expected to know it was out of shape. I have done what I can to see if we can get the Porsche driver's view too and will report back as and when!

[scubadude]

Anyone think the "tap" was similar to the recent rolling shunt at Spa in the Porsche Supercup race? Was 911 on 911 that time though, same result though from front wheel vs rear wheel- wheel to wheel contact responsible for launching the victim rather than type of shape of the car?

[morgrp]

Personally believe its a terrible concept as a racing car serving very little benefit over and above more conventional designs

[Builder]

zebedee said:

I agree that you do need an optician, or just watch the footage and pause it at 48-49 seconds.

LOL... Looked at it lots and can't come to the same conclusion. You are looking at the wrong bit, and obviously have worse vision than the driver of #34. What direction are the wheels turned at 0:47? You can clearly see the wheel go from straight, to left, between 47-48. Not counter-steering.

I reserve final judgement until hearing the driver's comments. But, if it was lost control, that's an extremely novice error and I would suspend the driver pending rudimentary training. More likely, the rumble strip caused a minor direction change, but the driver didn't correct due to the minor nature and was happy to float right (not seeing the DWing), or was heading for the pits and wanted a right trajectory. Then, the driver was startled by seeing the DWing...

At 1:19 you see a wiggle on the rumble strip. Any pro would have started counter-steering in advance of crossing onto the strip to stay left for the next right turn. At 1:21, you see there is no dramatic input change. Rears directly behind front tires. At 1:22, the startled, novice driver reacts and makes a hard left input, after seeing the DWing, which results in the rear swinging right into the DWing. There was no need for such a dramatic correction.

[smilo996]

What a paradox. Nissan innovation nerfed by Porsche pragmatism. Shame. Porsche clearly drifted over, did not see the Nissan, job done. Personnaly I think it is brilliant Nissan are trying something different and radical in the face of Porsche, whose idea of innovation is to change the paint and add more power.

[Dirty]

Glad the drivers walked away. Happy a silly looking car got destroyed. Shame they are rebuilding it! Still plenty more randomly weaving 911s where that one came from

[BeirutTaxi]

smilo996 said:

What a paradox. Nissan innovation nerfed by Porsche pragmatism. Shame. Porsche clearly drifted over, did not see the Nissan, job done. Personnaly I think it is brilliant Nissan are trying something different and radical in the face of Porsche, whose idea of innovation is to change the paint and add more power.

I remember your bullst Porsche posts from before, only because they are so laughable.

Yep, they just change the paint and add more power. No dramatic changes occur beneath the surface. No innovation or clever engineering.

[TimJMS]

zebedee said:

hunt_the_fox said:

I don't think that was correcting an out of control car, I've looked at that footage and it looks to me like a deliberate move to the right before impact.

Nope, we've all watched the footage too! I watch an awful lot of GT racing every year and that Porsche took a bounce on the kerb that threw it out of shape. 48-49s he has opposite lock on, he isn't wanting to move right at all.

At 48 seconds, the Porsche driver makes an effort to get out of the way of the Deltawing as it comes into his peripheral vision by steering left. There is no out of condition to correct. This is in no way opposite lock. The impact is a long way past the preceding corner, and a few seconds after the Porsche has already been corrected.

[Rs2oo]

BeirutTaxi said:

Great to see the Delta Wing is still employed in racing. Speaking as an engineer I think it's great to challenge convention.

Pretty much the same accident that put the Delta Wing in the wall at Lemans 2012.



Great track too.

I dont think it was anything like the Le Mans accident except that it was pushed off the track. Much slower speed, on a bend and did not flip over. I agree with Skater12 - page one comment. A normal car surely would not have flipped over like that, it would more likely have remained on all four wheels unless it dug into something. I think this incident may be a serious flaw in the design. As much as the Wing was interesting at Le Mans, I do not think there is a place for it in this series.

[paul_k]

Deltawing driver gave him loads of room.
Clear case of porky tail wag and poor driving.

[mikeplayer]

XTR2Turbo said:

It looks to me as if the Porsche started to drift and he lost control and recovered badly rather than just turning into the Nissan.

Have to agree here, the prosche looked as if his rear slid out a fraction, he hit the brakes ( watch the slow mo they come on ) and then the rest is a now a discussion!

I always like a good conspiracy discussion!

Cheers

Mike

[williamp]

Both of these were "worse" then this crash, and neither invovles a deltawing. It can always happen when a slower car hits a faster car, and has nothing to do with the deltawing design

[AlexKing]

morgrp said:

Personally believe its a terrible concept as a racing car serving very little benefit over and above more conventional designs

Yeah, but I've heard they have these two wheeled racing machines with no head protection for the driver at all, and they always flip. They shouldn't be allowed!

[Jayfish]

Holy Moly! That'll be a sore neck! Anyone for a roll over hoop?

[bsdnazz]

GrumpyTwig said:

That does NOT look fun to crash, drivers head looks not to have enough roll bar to protect it......

Have a look at a few of these pics - there's plenty of 'roll bar' protection.

[John D.]

masermartin said:

Perhaps this is my complete lack of understanding of actual motorsport dynamics etc, but to me it looks like the Porsche is on almost exactly the line that the following open seater is on, and the wheel turn at 48s is the "oh st .. too late" reaction when he sees the DW alongside

Porsche didn't look like it was sliding to me either. Isn't that a left turn over the crest? Looked to me that the Porsche driver was simply taking his normal line and didn't realise the Deltawing was up his inside.

Drivers helmet looked scarily close to the ground (touching?!) as it slid upside down. Love how cool he seemed after - didn't seem to phase him at all!

[civicduty]

pd2 said:

More visable?



But i do agree, porker is out of shape, rear end goes and tries to correct, to late......

Really didnt like seeing his head bounce around like that upside down!!

Tinky Winky's personal car.

[Allyc85]

Those who think that Porsche slid need their eyes/brains testing, it very clearly just moves over on the Deltawing, not knowing its there!

[andy rob]

wow that rolled like an old robin reliant !

[Jayfish]

Allyc85 said:

Those who think that Porsche slid need their eyes/brains testing, it very clearly just moves over on the Deltawing, not knowing its there!

Watch it again, then some more times until you see it.