Discussion
http://www.leeds-solicitors.com/piperhales.pdf
If you are interested in the facts, they are laid out here.
My impression is that if you have a "gentleman's agreement", then the court will decide in favour of the person who seems to be a more "worthy" gentleman. The judge seems scathing in his comments about the reliability of MH's evidence.
The outcome is a great pity for both parties, but shows that thinking that you may have insurance cover is simply not good enough.
If you are interested in the facts, they are laid out here.
My impression is that if you have a "gentleman's agreement", then the court will decide in favour of the person who seems to be a more "worthy" gentleman. The judge seems scathing in his comments about the reliability of MH's evidence.
The outcome is a great pity for both parties, but shows that thinking that you may have insurance cover is simply not good enough.
The case in itself highlights a hole in the wording of all On track policies in the UK anyway - I understand that the case involved payment for repairs to a blown engine; and there's no provision under any On track policies to cover damage caused through mechanical failure / breakdown whilst on track.
Andy
Andy
Graham said:
Is there a gap in the market there andy or would
It simply be too expensive ?
I've certainly turned down some very attractive
Drives as i couldnt afford to replace an engine or box
But could get damage cover
I can't see how anyone could offer sensible premiums to cover engine blowups - using the Piper/Hales case as an example, it's absolutely certain that at some point the engine will let go, and so any insurer would have to have rigid evidence that X revs weren't exceeded, that it's only been Y hours since a rebuild, that fuel quality Z is to be used, the underwiter would have to have a very good knowledge of the specific car to assess the nherent relability of the engine/box etc........the list would be massive and the complexity would make the cost far in excess of the price that people would pay.It simply be too expensive ?
I've certainly turned down some very attractive
Drives as i couldnt afford to replace an engine or box
But could get damage cover
Aa a rule of thumb, and using the 917 again, I'd have thought that any sensible underwriter would have to charge several thousand pounds for a one-day/20 lap cover, given the strong possibility of a blowup. Even then, they'd have to have 20+ successful policies with no payout to cover the potential loss on one engine.
Can't see it happening, though what you can and cannot insure always surprises me.
MMC Andy said:
The case in itself highlights a hole in the wording of all On track policies in the UK anyway - I understand that the case involved payment for repairs to a blown engine; and there's no provision under any On track policies to cover damage caused through mechanical failure / breakdown whilst on track.
Andy
I think this is a different issue completely.Andy
The case really highlights the need to write down the exact detail of any gentleman's agreement - "you bend it; you mend it" is simply not good enough.
In terms of trackdays, it is more applicable to allowing an ARDS instructor to drive your car.
Graham said:
BlackpoolRock said:
How much was he told to pay ? I heard breif snippets from twitter.
£50k damages£65k costs
Plus his own costs.
House and business on the line
So, Piper wins nothing, just gets his engine fixed.
Hales loses big time.
The lawyers win big time.
When will people learn?
REALIST123 said:
Why do we think he is deserving of this support?
Anyone who knows Mark personally will deem him worthy of the support! He certainly doesn't deserve to lose his business, house and reputation over thisHonestly you couldn't find a nicer bloke and what Piper has done in my opinion stinks!
P.S I owe him my career in Motorsport!
Edited by geeks on Tuesday 22 January 12:50
Mark is a good fellow and does not deserve this.
If I let others drive my race car it is on my head not their's if it spits a piston. Seemed that is what was agreed on the day but then the multi millionaire Piper decided to go back on the deal.
I have been in and around this motoring/motorsport/media industry for 20 plus years and it is a given, that if your car is driven by a journo for a test or race, then it is the owners responsibility.
Riggers drove my race car at Brands for a PH feature and at no point did I consider he was culpable for a mechanical failure.
If I let others drive my race car it is on my head not their's if it spits a piston. Seemed that is what was agreed on the day but then the multi millionaire Piper decided to go back on the deal.
I have been in and around this motoring/motorsport/media industry for 20 plus years and it is a given, that if your car is driven by a journo for a test or race, then it is the owners responsibility.
Riggers drove my race car at Brands for a PH feature and at no point did I consider he was culpable for a mechanical failure.
Excelsior said:
REALIST123 said:
Why do we think he is deserving of this support?
Please - let's not bother going through all that again - it is entirely your choice / my choiceIf anyone wants to then that's how to do it - simple as that
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 22 January 12:57
REALIST123 said:
Why do we think he is deserving of this support?
Well it's the annual £20 in his direction or the chuggers by the tube station and frankly I prefer the type of person who races, like myself and my friends and I also kinda like supporting an underdog. In fact i'd give £40 just to fund him to counter sue. fwiw his twitter: https://twitter.com/MarkAHales (note the "used to own . . . "
Just read part of an article he did about racing a 250 GTO with Martin Brundle and it was very detailed and insightful - especially his comments on car control and setup.
Sorry if a bit off topic but shows what cool dude he is and the expensive cars.
http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2011/01/martin-bru...
Just read part of an article he did about racing a 250 GTO with Martin Brundle and it was very detailed and insightful - especially his comments on car control and setup.
Sorry if a bit off topic but shows what cool dude he is and the expensive cars.
http://blog.axisofoversteer.com/2011/01/martin-bru...
Edited by PiB on Wednesday 23 January 23:52
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