BTCC - Croft - Rounds 13, 14, 15
Discussion
Even the TV advert for Snetterton tickets was selling it on "wheel banging" action. I noticed a similar thing with the Oulton advert, another MSV circuit.
Personally I don't mind seeing a little bit of contact, providing it doesn't affect the receiver too much, but when you reach a point where drivers are literally shoving others off the track, and nothing is done about it, then it's gone too far.
I hate hearing the "ooooh" of the crowd every time they think there's about to be a crash too.
Personally I don't mind seeing a little bit of contact, providing it doesn't affect the receiver too much, but when you reach a point where drivers are literally shoving others off the track, and nothing is done about it, then it's gone too far.
I hate hearing the "ooooh" of the crowd every time they think there's about to be a crash too.
VictoriaYorks said:
Even the TV advert for Snetterton tickets was selling it on "wheel banging" action. I noticed a similar thing with the Oulton advert, another MSV circuit.
Personally I don't mind seeing a little bit of contact, providing it doesn't affect the receiver too much, but when you reach a point where drivers are literally shoving others off the track, and nothing is done about it, then it's gone too far.
I hate hearing the "ooooh" of the crowd every time they think there's about to be a crash too.
I agree you I don't mind a bit of rubbing but pushing people wide or off the track doesn't make for good viewing and too many are getting away with it then it's never their fault always the driver who has been pushed off though it was good to see Rob Austin admitting he was in the wrong in race two. Personally I don't mind seeing a little bit of contact, providing it doesn't affect the receiver too much, but when you reach a point where drivers are literally shoving others off the track, and nothing is done about it, then it's gone too far.
I hate hearing the "ooooh" of the crowd every time they think there's about to be a crash too.
The Wookie said:
Well I was ambivalent about it until Mat Jackson came over after the race to apologise, well so I thought, he was actually coming to explain to me how it was my fault 
Even more hilariously he accused me of running him wide (I didn't) when he did exactly that to Sutton on the last corner!
Looks like I need to find a new tyre garage for work as b
ks to going back to his place!
Seriously though, I could get upset about it but it was a reverse grid bonus and I still ended up with a top ten, and the car ran great on the hard tyres.
It is disappointing that I didn't get promoted to 9th though as Gordon cut the chicane to keep a place on the last lap and I was given a time penalty for doing virtually exactly the same in Race 1.
That's a remarkably pragmatic view you have there Wookie, all credit to you. I thought the bump on you was pretty cynical, and pretty unnecessary. The last corner antics were even worse, how Tim Harvey can say that Jackson was 'entitled' to do that I have no idea. Sutton was in front into the corner, and Jackson ran him off the track, quite clearly deliberately.Even more hilariously he accused me of running him wide (I didn't) when he did exactly that to Sutton on the last corner!
Looks like I need to find a new tyre garage for work as b
ks to going back to his place!Seriously though, I could get upset about it but it was a reverse grid bonus and I still ended up with a top ten, and the car ran great on the hard tyres.
It is disappointing that I didn't get promoted to 9th though as Gordon cut the chicane to keep a place on the last lap and I was given a time penalty for doing virtually exactly the same in Race 1.
As andy97 says, if you did that in a club race, you would expect an exclusion at best.
Good luck for the next race, perhaps if you repaint the car orange and black you might get treated differently!
bltamil1 said:
That's a remarkably pragmatic view you have there Wookie, all credit to you. I thought the bump on you was pretty cynical, and pretty unnecessary. The last corner antics were even worse, how Tim Harvey can say that Jackson was 'entitled' to do that I have no idea. Sutton was in front into the corner, and Jackson ran him off the track, quite clearly deliberately.
As andy97 says, if you did that in a club race, you would expect an exclusion at best.
Good luck for the next race, perhaps if you repaint the car orange and black you might get treated differently!
I consider myself spectacularly lucky to be in the field, let alone able to compete at the sharp end and like it or not it's always been a part of touring cars. In a funny sort of way it's also less painful to get punted out of the lead than it is from bloody 23rd place. As andy97 says, if you did that in a club race, you would expect an exclusion at best.
Good luck for the next race, perhaps if you repaint the car orange and black you might get treated differently!
I also don't think it will be the last opportunity I get to be up there. If it turns out it is and I get frustrated with the shenanigans then there's plenty of opportunities waiting for me in other series, for the time being i'm living the dream!
Don't think I'll forgive or forget though, that's f
ked any goodwill I have with MJ right up the arse for all time 
Edited by The Wookie on Monday 12th June 19:14
i was genuinely disappointed for the amd team, its always nice to see an up and coming team at the front. While it might have been pole by default you still have to be in the top 10 to be in with a shout.
I wonder if it was race 2 would the outcome have been any different ?
Has there been anymore updates on Luke and Jeff ?
I wonder if it was race 2 would the outcome have been any different ?
Has there been anymore updates on Luke and Jeff ?
v1nce said:
Its called a hobby. I know its not a very trendy concept in the modern world, but every man should have one.
A photographer that blocks a couple of feet of your view if you cant be bothered to stand up is the least of your at a BTCC event. Whats with the tents and gazebos?
I can be bothered to stand up still can't see thanks to Mr 2ft lense. Take the odd picture, you don't need to hold your camera for the entire race. I take it your mum likes yours pics? A photographer that blocks a couple of feet of your view if you cant be bothered to stand up is the least of your at a BTCC event. Whats with the tents and gazebos?
Unfortunately the BTCC has allowed the panel bashing to happen as it's good for TV and the paying public expect it to a degree.
Until one of the big teams or headline sponsors really kicks up stink I fear things will not change .
Certain drivers would have been thrown out of any other package for their on track behaviour,and more than one should have faced police charges for their behaviour post races in the past .
Until one of the big teams or headline sponsors really kicks up stink I fear things will not change .
Certain drivers would have been thrown out of any other package for their on track behaviour,and more than one should have faced police charges for their behaviour post races in the past .
The Wookie said:
I consider myself spectacularly lucky to be in the field, let alone able to compete at the sharp end and like it or not it's always been a part of touring cars. In a funny sort of way it's also less painful to get punted out of the lead than it is from bloody 23rd place.
I also don't think it will be the last opportunity I get to be up there. If it turns out it is and I get frustrated with the shenanigans then there's plenty of opportunities waiting for me in other series, for the time being i'm living the dream!
Don't think I'll forgive or forget though, that's fked any goodwill I have with MJ right up the arse for all time
Surely it's possible to live the dream (within the BTCC) and it not be banger racing - it would be cheaper too, due to the lower damage bill?I also don't think it will be the last opportunity I get to be up there. If it turns out it is and I get frustrated with the shenanigans then there's plenty of opportunities waiting for me in other series, for the time being i'm living the dream!
Don't think I'll forgive or forget though, that's f
ked any goodwill I have with MJ right up the arse for all time Edited by The Wookie on Monday 12th June 19:14
Do you really want to end up in an ITU? Is that what living the dream means? Jeff Smith was living the dream, too, but look where he ended up. Accidents happen in motor racing but it's generally rare in most series. In the BTCC it's 2-3 bad accidents every race. Someone else will be seriously hurt if nothing changes.
BTCC should be the pinnacle of tin top racing in the UK but currently it's an embarrassment, and a dangerous embarrassment at that.
Edited by andy97 on Monday 12th June 22:36
Of course I'd prefer it if it were less, there are some daft moves and dodgy driving which regularly goes unpunished, that said MJ's move was crass but not dangerous, the dangerous ones are happening in the mid pack into high speed corners or running off on the straights and because they're not on the TV they don't get looked at. Ant got punted into the tyres at the chicane for example, nothing done.
Also the Quali shunt could have happened in any series, just a series of circumstances that came together for a worst case scenario. The only thing about the BTCC that made it worse was the fact that it's a full grid of cars
Also the Quali shunt could have happened in any series, just a series of circumstances that came together for a worst case scenario. The only thing about the BTCC that made it worse was the fact that it's a full grid of cars
andy97 said:
Do you really want to end up in an ITU? Is that what living the dream means? Jeff Smith was living the dream, too, but look where he ended up.
Why are you making things up? That's twice now that you've blamed saturdays qualifying crash on poor driving and added a dailymail spin to it. What's next pictures of crying families? You do realise oil and water on a high speed corner will have the same impact in any series or are you trying to spin it that the ford pressed a button that released oil in a James Bond manoeuvre to take out the cars behind?
VictoriaYorks said:
I'm struggling with the whole series at the moment.
I always liked Mat Jackson but he was out of order in the last race. I know the team had a tough weekend and he sounded pretty emotional in the interview, but at least apologise after for shoving someone off.
Jordan went down in my estimations after his comments when he went from Motorbase to WSR.
The constant pro-Honda decisions in the penalties (or lack of)
When you go to a meeting you can't get a view thanks to the row of people at the front with camping chairs who don't move all day and stand up when the races are on, blocking your view completely.
Then at the end there's the fight to get out the car park as everyone thinks they're too important to queue so you end up with 50 rows all trying to get through one exit
I couldn't have put it better. Been going for 20 years now but starting to get pissed off with all you describe above. I always liked Mat Jackson but he was out of order in the last race. I know the team had a tough weekend and he sounded pretty emotional in the interview, but at least apologise after for shoving someone off.
Jordan went down in my estimations after his comments when he went from Motorbase to WSR.
The constant pro-Honda decisions in the penalties (or lack of)
When you go to a meeting you can't get a view thanks to the row of people at the front with camping chairs who don't move all day and stand up when the races are on, blocking your view completely.
Then at the end there's the fight to get out the car park as everyone thinks they're too important to queue so you end up with 50 rows all trying to get through one exit
- sigh - rant over*
Perhaps a victim of its own success. The predictability of what happens i.e. Wookie being tapped all way round first two corners on lap one of race is just ruining it for me. Touring cars apparently is a contact sport, but that should just be door handle to door handle in hard fought battles.
alsaautomotive said:
To be fair to Ollie & a few other drivers (including our Rob) it was pretty clear that Jake was monumentally slower than pretty much all of the other cars behind and was proving to be something of a mobile chicane.
I completely disagree with you. He has had some bad luck this season, mainly through no fault of his own (most recently by 'our Rob')!
Jake has been on the pace for most of the year and has put some great laps in quali and has shown he can easily tangle with the top half of the grid.
To say he was a 'mobile chicane' is ridiculous, if he was 'monumentally' slow why didn't the field overtake much easier? He was defending his position so couldn't gap the guy behind.
I think this push to pass is a bit much at the moment. It's no real way to win a race.
Question for those in the know: the Jackson/Sutton incident. I see this scenario quite a bit where the car behind is quicker, whereas the one in front is compromised by having to defend all the time so tends to be slower through the corners.
I always thought it was out of order if a car (Sutton) got on the outside on the exit, only for the car defending (Jackson) to think they can still use the whole width of the track and run them onto the grass. Is that not a no no as it never seems to get punished and also seems dangerous at times. It just baffles me that it seems to be allowed.
Question for those in the know: the Jackson/Sutton incident. I see this scenario quite a bit where the car behind is quicker, whereas the one in front is compromised by having to defend all the time so tends to be slower through the corners.
I always thought it was out of order if a car (Sutton) got on the outside on the exit, only for the car defending (Jackson) to think they can still use the whole width of the track and run them onto the grass. Is that not a no no as it never seems to get punished and also seems dangerous at times. It just baffles me that it seems to be allowed.
I think deliberately turning into an opponent on the outside of you is a no-no but when I was racing it was always considered if you are going to overtake on the outside, go knowing the risk that the guy on the inside might run you out wide.
I thought this was a common feeling in racing and certainly as I say when I was racing was widely considered that if you were on the inside you simply let your vehicle run out wide from the corner, whether in karting or in cars, using all the road, forcing the other guy to back out of it. Jackson wasn't very clever about it as he did seem to actually turn right a bit into sutton but if I was sutton I would have expected Jackson to run me out as soon as i was on the outside at that corner. Happens particularly at Croft all the time.
I thought this was a common feeling in racing and certainly as I say when I was racing was widely considered that if you were on the inside you simply let your vehicle run out wide from the corner, whether in karting or in cars, using all the road, forcing the other guy to back out of it. Jackson wasn't very clever about it as he did seem to actually turn right a bit into sutton but if I was sutton I would have expected Jackson to run me out as soon as i was on the outside at that corner. Happens particularly at Croft all the time.
Fair enough if that's how it is. Thanks for replying.
Jackson was very unsubtle about it, but I suspect that's because he didn't need all the room but knew Sutton had the run so made the not so subtle adjustment to use all the track.
I shall go back to playing Forza happy in the knowledge then anyone going round me on the outside is going in the dirt
Jackson was very unsubtle about it, but I suspect that's because he didn't need all the room but knew Sutton had the run so made the not so subtle adjustment to use all the track.
I shall go back to playing Forza happy in the knowledge then anyone going round me on the outside is going in the dirt
If you are in front you are entitled to take the racing line. On the exit of a corner the exit is out onto the curb. If you go round the outside and aren't in front then expect the car in front to use all the racing line, you can always back off to stay on the track.
If you are in front and don't take the racing line and give room, the guy behind will know you'll do it next time and then go for it more often as they know you'll give room.
If you are in front and don't take the racing line and give room, the guy behind will know you'll do it next time and then go for it more often as they know you'll give room.
I've managed to get someone penalised for running me off on the exit after I went around the outside before in Ginettas, but I was actually ahead by the middle of the corner.
Personally I wouldn't run deliberately someone off the track that was well alongside me (although I would shut the door if they had stuck a speculative nose there), but no-one seems to get penalised for it
Personally I wouldn't run deliberately someone off the track that was well alongside me (although I would shut the door if they had stuck a speculative nose there), but no-one seems to get penalised for it
Thanks all
I know you can't have eyes in the back of your head and you wouldn't always know someone is on your rear quarter, but it does seem unfair that you can cover it off knowing full well that's where someone is, whether you can see them or not.
If that was on a straight, with someone on your rear quarter and you started moving them out wide onto the grass, surely you'd be penalised?
Anyways, I'm happy to bow down to the masses saying that's the way it is, but it just seems a tad unfair, especially when it's as blatant as Sutton/Jackson. If Sutton had thought 'no way mate' and turned left a bit, spinning Jackson, I suppose Sutton would be at fault?
Sutton seemed very gracious in accepting what had happened, but it must be absolutely mortifying to know you drove such a good clean race, knowing full well you could have him on the last corner, just to have that happen.
That's racing though I guess.
I know you can't have eyes in the back of your head and you wouldn't always know someone is on your rear quarter, but it does seem unfair that you can cover it off knowing full well that's where someone is, whether you can see them or not.
If that was on a straight, with someone on your rear quarter and you started moving them out wide onto the grass, surely you'd be penalised?
Anyways, I'm happy to bow down to the masses saying that's the way it is, but it just seems a tad unfair, especially when it's as blatant as Sutton/Jackson. If Sutton had thought 'no way mate' and turned left a bit, spinning Jackson, I suppose Sutton would be at fault?
Sutton seemed very gracious in accepting what had happened, but it must be absolutely mortifying to know you drove such a good clean race, knowing full well you could have him on the last corner, just to have that happen.
That's racing though I guess.
Shilvers said:
If that was on a straight, with someone on your rear quarter and you started moving them out wide onto the grass, surely you'd be penalised?
Anyways, I'm happy to bow down to the masses saying that's the way it is, but it just seems a tad unfair, especially when it's as blatant as Sutton/Jackson. If Sutton had thought 'no way mate' and turned left a bit, spinning Jackson, I suppose Sutton would be at fault?
Yes for the first in theory and it's my pet hate, although it's rare the stewards actually look into it for some reason. Some drivers are repeat offenders for this, usually the same tossers that weave about the straights to block and nothing gets done about that eitherAnyways, I'm happy to bow down to the masses saying that's the way it is, but it just seems a tad unfair, especially when it's as blatant as Sutton/Jackson. If Sutton had thought 'no way mate' and turned left a bit, spinning Jackson, I suppose Sutton would be at fault?
Yes for the second too as I've been penalised for exactly that, although I didn't spin the other car, it broke a rear toe link and crashed into the side of me taking us both out. It's a very grey area and seems to be applied fairly subjectively from incident to incident.
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