Is there a lack of innovation and variety in motorsport?
Discussion
Is there a lack of innovation and variety in modern motorsport today?
In past times, things like touring cars, GT racing and rallying there as well as many other types of racing. There was always great variety in the types of vehicles competing.
E.g.
V12 Jaguars in saloon car racing, then V8 Rovers and then 2.0 litre Turbo Fords...
Mini’s and Austin A35’s would battle it out with big Fords and Jags.
And in rallying you’d have a fwd Pug 205 1.9 up against a rwd V8 Rover.
In many cases different cars would suit different competitoins better than others. So there wasn’t always a single best vehicle for everything.
Even F1 had a bit more variety at times with things like the Tyrell 6 wheeler.
But it seems today its either a one make series. Or a ’formula’ where all the cars have to built to the exact same spec, i.e. same general size, weight, driven wheels, engine size, induction type and so on. So much so that it might as well be a one make series.
Is motorsport maybe a little ‘over’ regulated these days? Does nobody else miss the variety of different car styles that used to compete against each other?
EDIT:
Meaning mostly top flite motorsport, the sort of stuff that makes it to the telly.
I know down at clubman level and grassroots there is far more variety, although often still more restricted than it maybe needs to be.
In past times, things like touring cars, GT racing and rallying there as well as many other types of racing. There was always great variety in the types of vehicles competing.
E.g.
V12 Jaguars in saloon car racing, then V8 Rovers and then 2.0 litre Turbo Fords...
Mini’s and Austin A35’s would battle it out with big Fords and Jags.
And in rallying you’d have a fwd Pug 205 1.9 up against a rwd V8 Rover.
In many cases different cars would suit different competitoins better than others. So there wasn’t always a single best vehicle for everything.
Even F1 had a bit more variety at times with things like the Tyrell 6 wheeler.
But it seems today its either a one make series. Or a ’formula’ where all the cars have to built to the exact same spec, i.e. same general size, weight, driven wheels, engine size, induction type and so on. So much so that it might as well be a one make series.
Is motorsport maybe a little ‘over’ regulated these days? Does nobody else miss the variety of different car styles that used to compete against each other?
EDIT:
Meaning mostly top flite motorsport, the sort of stuff that makes it to the telly.
I know down at clubman level and grassroots there is far more variety, although often still more restricted than it maybe needs to be.
Edited by 300bhp/ton on Tuesday 31st October 22:42
There is a huge amount of variety and innovation in motorsport today, however most of this is under the skins of the cars we see. This is particular evident in WEC LeMans type cars. Whilst the LMP1 cars look similar at a glance, they have been very different for many years, with different fuels, engine configurations, hybrid systems and so forth. Most variety is in the Balance of Performance controlled GT classes, where mid-engine cars race door to door with rear engine 911s (not this year!) and front engine corvettes and Astons.
With the development of the importance of aero compared to decades before, the visual frustrations and observations of the OP stem from how similar shapes and styles can be. Anything road car based isn't helped by the crash / emissions / packaging and space designs of road cares meaning that there isn't huge varieties of silhouettes to play with. In the forests for this weekend rally GB, we were very dependant on the window name markings for identifying cars if we missed the grill badge flashing past, since all the teams are based on a family shopping blob.
With the development of the importance of aero compared to decades before, the visual frustrations and observations of the OP stem from how similar shapes and styles can be. Anything road car based isn't helped by the crash / emissions / packaging and space designs of road cares meaning that there isn't huge varieties of silhouettes to play with. In the forests for this weekend rally GB, we were very dependant on the window name markings for identifying cars if we missed the grill badge flashing past, since all the teams are based on a family shopping blob.
There is a massive amount of variety in motorsport in general.
The problem is that most people don't look outside the circuit racing box.
Circuit racing is a fairly dull, tired thing unless you are competing. Rallying has been utterly ruined by the MSA panicking about insurance.
But there is loads of stuff out there, drag racing, short ovals, rallycross, autograss, hillclimbs, off road racing, all forms of motorcycle sport.
I realised many years ago that circuit racing was never going to offer me much, and I hardly ever watch it now.
Just go out and find other stuff, most of it is cheaper, the people doing It are often more friendly, and often you don't even have to pay much to watch it!
It is a simple choice, once you do it you will probably realise like I did that I wasted years watching average circuit racing when I could have been watching far better, more entertaining and more interesting motorsport.
The problem is that most people don't look outside the circuit racing box.
Circuit racing is a fairly dull, tired thing unless you are competing. Rallying has been utterly ruined by the MSA panicking about insurance.
But there is loads of stuff out there, drag racing, short ovals, rallycross, autograss, hillclimbs, off road racing, all forms of motorcycle sport.
I realised many years ago that circuit racing was never going to offer me much, and I hardly ever watch it now.
Just go out and find other stuff, most of it is cheaper, the people doing It are often more friendly, and often you don't even have to pay much to watch it!
It is a simple choice, once you do it you will probably realise like I did that I wasted years watching average circuit racing when I could have been watching far better, more entertaining and more interesting motorsport.
Even with circuit racing in the non-professional world there is loads of verity.
Here were some of the entry in a recent race I competed in.
Here were some of the entry in a recent race I competed in.
- Ginetta G50 Cup 3500
- BMW M3 E36 3200
- Lotus Esprit S3 2498
- Porsche 968 CS 3000
- Porsche Boxster S 986 3179
- Lancia Delta HF Integrale (T) 1998
- BMW M3 Evo E36 3201
- Porsche Cayman 2700
- Ferrari 355 Stradale 3500
- Ford Fiesta ST (T) 1600
- Porsche 944 S2 2990
- Lotus Elise S1 1796
- Ford Puma 1700
- Alfa Romeo GTV 3000
- Ginetta G20 1800
- BMW E30 2500
- Mini Cooper S (T) 1600
- BMW 325i Compact 2500
- Porsche 911 RSR 2998
- Porsche 911 SC 3000
- Porsche 911 RS 3506
- Triumph TR7 V8 4200
- Talbot Sunbeam Lotus 2200
- Pontiac Trans AM 6600
- Ford Escort MkI RS 2000 1998
- Ford Escort RS2000 Mk2 2000
- Opel Ascona 2.0 SR 1998
- Ford Capri Mk1 3000
- Aston Martin AM V8 5340
- MG BGT V8 3500
- Porsche 924 1984
- Triumph TR8 3500
- Mazda RX7 (T) 1300
- Triumph Dolomite Sprint 1998
- Morgan Plus 8 4600
- TVR Tuscan 4800
- Porsche 928 S4 5000
- Porsche 911 RSR 2998
- Porsche 911 SC 3000
- Lancia Delta HF Integrale (T) 1998
- Porsche 911 964 3800
- Vauxhall Astra GTE 16v 2000
- Mazda RX7 (T) 1300
- Ford Sierra Cosworth (T) 2000
- Porsche 944 S2 2990
- Jaguar XJS 6000
- Alfa Romeo 75 2959
There is still quite a lot of variety in various forms of motorsport, but as time goes on there is always going to be less innovation and more evolution.
I guess the next major innovation is to do with hybrid power, how to deploy it and how to generate it in the first place. I know F1 and LMP1 already has this, but it will ultimately filter down to GT racing and lesser formulae.
Single seaters - sadly its very much a one make series - GP2, GP3 are both spec series. F3 is a Dallara spec chassis, not mandated by rules, but noone produces an alternative, although there is scope for different engines and some developments of parts.
F4 and BRDC F3 are spec series, as are Formula Renault.
I guess the next major innovation is to do with hybrid power, how to deploy it and how to generate it in the first place. I know F1 and LMP1 already has this, but it will ultimately filter down to GT racing and lesser formulae.
Single seaters - sadly its very much a one make series - GP2, GP3 are both spec series. F3 is a Dallara spec chassis, not mandated by rules, but noone produces an alternative, although there is scope for different engines and some developments of parts.
F4 and BRDC F3 are spec series, as are Formula Renault.
It's not strictly circuit racing in the traditional sense but time attack an extremely diverse racing series. Yeah, they race against the clock rather than against each other but you get a great mix of cars because there is literally no limit in power and modifications. In the UK it's like BTCC on steroids and in Japan some events have former JGTC cars competing.
Take a look at the link for the range of cars in the UK Time Attack Champsionship:
http://www.timeattack.co.uk/championship-points-ta...
I know what you mean but I think that this is largely limited to top flight motorsports (and even there you have notable exceptions) but lower level motorsport is very diverse. I'd even argue that these days, real car and racing fans are starting to look more and more at the "lower level" competitions because of how relatively boring the stuff you watch on telly has become.
Take a look at the link for the range of cars in the UK Time Attack Champsionship:
http://www.timeattack.co.uk/championship-points-ta...
I know what you mean but I think that this is largely limited to top flight motorsports (and even there you have notable exceptions) but lower level motorsport is very diverse. I'd even argue that these days, real car and racing fans are starting to look more and more at the "lower level" competitions because of how relatively boring the stuff you watch on telly has become.
BlameItOnGT2 said:
It's not strictly circuit racing in the traditional sense. In the UK it's like BTCC on steroids and in Japan some events have former JGTC cars competing.
You're right, it's not strictly circuit racing but more like a qualifying session from circuit racing (but more expensive).It's absolutely not comparable to BTCC unless of course you're into comparing liveries.....
You forgetting that mini and jag didn't compete with each other most of what you described was class racing where ocassionaly they end up battling at the same time ie wet races etc.
There is more variety in motorsport today then ever before recently in lmp1 you had 3 different manufactures building 3 totally different cars to same set of rules.
Rose tinted specs spring too mind.
There is more variety in motorsport today then ever before recently in lmp1 you had 3 different manufactures building 3 totally different cars to same set of rules.
Rose tinted specs spring too mind.
There is a massive variety in UK motorsport as long as you get off your arse and watch it live. I am three quarters through writing a book which , amongst other things , profiles the motorsport year in the UK . This year I have attended drag racing , autograss , sprint and hillclimbs , stage rallying, rallycross , circuit racing including BTCC , Historic racing , Club stuff , F3 and GTs at many different venues .
What have I learned ? Attendance is low unless the event is televised - but stuff like drag racing and autograss has a fervent fan base . Drag racing is the most gender blind and ethnically diverse .
Cars ? There is less variety in racing than when I first started watching motorsport in the late 60s - which has meant a huge increase in spec formulae - from Ginettas to Clios to MX5s and Porsches. There is grid diversity if you look for it- my local Northern Saloons and Sports Cars offer a feast of different vehicles .
Where things have really gone down the pan is single seater racing - it is poorly supported and grid usually are the same chassis and engine combo . There is no modern big power single seater racing outside GP meetings and Historics. The first F3 meeting I attended had 60 entrants (two heats and a final) and a dozen different chassis and back in the day I could see F2/ F5000 or F1 at at least five different circuits up to twenty odd times a season in total.
If you want too see pure racing the best I have seen this year (as usual) is Formula Ford 1600 - by far. Best spectacle - anything big and noisy at Santa Pod . Best atmosphere - Silverstone Classic. Most surprisingly enjoyable to a cynical old fart was BTCC in the wet . Most fun - Autograss . Most difficult to understand the appeal? Time Attack(but at least it attracts a lot of youngsters) .
What have I learned ? Attendance is low unless the event is televised - but stuff like drag racing and autograss has a fervent fan base . Drag racing is the most gender blind and ethnically diverse .
Cars ? There is less variety in racing than when I first started watching motorsport in the late 60s - which has meant a huge increase in spec formulae - from Ginettas to Clios to MX5s and Porsches. There is grid diversity if you look for it- my local Northern Saloons and Sports Cars offer a feast of different vehicles .
Where things have really gone down the pan is single seater racing - it is poorly supported and grid usually are the same chassis and engine combo . There is no modern big power single seater racing outside GP meetings and Historics. The first F3 meeting I attended had 60 entrants (two heats and a final) and a dozen different chassis and back in the day I could see F2/ F5000 or F1 at at least five different circuits up to twenty odd times a season in total.
If you want too see pure racing the best I have seen this year (as usual) is Formula Ford 1600 - by far. Best spectacle - anything big and noisy at Santa Pod . Best atmosphere - Silverstone Classic. Most surprisingly enjoyable to a cynical old fart was BTCC in the wet . Most fun - Autograss . Most difficult to understand the appeal? Time Attack(but at least it attracts a lot of youngsters) .
You only have to look at the replies to this thread to see the problem!
A hell of a lot of people circuit racing focused only and talking about variety only there
And a few who have probably been to more venues and different disciplines than some will ever do in their entire lifetime of watching motorsport.
There is no one answer.
I like to see cars driven hard, I get little of this in a lot of circuit racing I am afraid, I have been there, watched it and found this to be the case especially in historic racing at every level.
It happens in every form of racing yes, but there are definitely some categories of motorsport where far more of the drivers are on it all the time
A hell of a lot of people circuit racing focused only and talking about variety only there
And a few who have probably been to more venues and different disciplines than some will ever do in their entire lifetime of watching motorsport.
There is no one answer.
I like to see cars driven hard, I get little of this in a lot of circuit racing I am afraid, I have been there, watched it and found this to be the case especially in historic racing at every level.
It happens in every form of racing yes, but there are definitely some categories of motorsport where far more of the drivers are on it all the time
cjslator said:
You're right, it's not strictly circuit racing but more like a qualifying session from circuit racing (but more expensive).
It's absolutely not comparable to BTCC unless of course you're into comparing liveries.....
Not sure about the more expensive, a club membership costs £50 a year. You can race pretty much anything you want in the two lower classes and you only need very basic safety equipment.It's absolutely not comparable to BTCC unless of course you're into comparing liveries.....
Agree with you about BTCC though. Don't think there is any other professional touring car or sports car/GT series that compares. Yeah, it could be argued that the whole NGTC is not far off the whole WRC thing but I think that the reputation it has for close racing and driver's willingness to exchange paint has made sure that even if the cars are very much within spec, the drivers make it exciting. I, for one, can't wait to finally attend my first BTCC race next year at Outlon Park or Donnington.
Which I suppose maybe raises the point that the problem is not spec racing, it's the people racing the cars.
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