The 2018 Rallying thread..(WRC, ERC, etc)
Discussion
). Becomes a vicious cycle though, the busy discussion gets busier and the quiet one gets quieter.It seems certain on this forum that WRC is just about dead. I've changed jobs so don't have as much time to post here anymore but do still pop in to see the discussions. (i cant handle the BritishRallyForum these days either, it was even stupider and pettier than some sections of this site a while back)
ArnageWRC has a great point, I can't really afford to pay for All Live, but I also cant get the time to watch it all, RedBull TV are doing a great job with their coverage and Live stage and you have to wonder if they can do it why cant it be broadcast by one of the other TV channels? I don't have the time really to catch up on all the stuff All Live offers. yeah I suppose it would be on the TV in the background if I was at home for an entire event. but I don't think I'd be sat there all weekend watching it. I also really dislike Jon Desborough and find it difficult to watch when he's giving his mundane and idiotic commentary
Twitter and Facebook content has been far superior to the WRC stuff for a while now too. there was even a guy on an awesome section at Corsica who went Facebook Live and the coverage was exceptional!
I found listening to the radio app difficult this weekend now that Rally Radio has moved over to include the All Live content. We've lost the priceless chemistry between Becs, Colin, Emyr etc etc at stage end/in studio. They simply cant get away with the chatter they used to fill the air with between stages. they knowledge they all have of the sport and some of the stories they used to share has now been lost. And that f
king bed track that plays on All Live annoys the st out of me and ruins the radio stuff now!!!
Anyway, moving on. Wales Rally GB announced the itinerary yesterday. I'm sort of disappointed in it tbh. All the fuss about using the Orme, but it still features
I'm surprised they didn't hold all the "southern" stages on the Friday and have the rest of the weekend up north.
Saturday is a long day without a service again. That's gonna see quite a few retirements I think!
It'll be a one day event for me this year by the looks as I cant afford to spend out what I did last year to marshal 2 days. Myherin gets my initial vote for stages to do, may go Sweet Lamb for a change. Will be my first event as a solo radio car.
ArnageWRC has a great point, I can't really afford to pay for All Live, but I also cant get the time to watch it all, RedBull TV are doing a great job with their coverage and Live stage and you have to wonder if they can do it why cant it be broadcast by one of the other TV channels? I don't have the time really to catch up on all the stuff All Live offers. yeah I suppose it would be on the TV in the background if I was at home for an entire event. but I don't think I'd be sat there all weekend watching it. I also really dislike Jon Desborough and find it difficult to watch when he's giving his mundane and idiotic commentary
Twitter and Facebook content has been far superior to the WRC stuff for a while now too. there was even a guy on an awesome section at Corsica who went Facebook Live and the coverage was exceptional!I found listening to the radio app difficult this weekend now that Rally Radio has moved over to include the All Live content. We've lost the priceless chemistry between Becs, Colin, Emyr etc etc at stage end/in studio. They simply cant get away with the chatter they used to fill the air with between stages. they knowledge they all have of the sport and some of the stories they used to share has now been lost. And that f
king bed track that plays on All Live annoys the st out of me and ruins the radio stuff now!!!Anyway, moving on. Wales Rally GB announced the itinerary yesterday. I'm sort of disappointed in it tbh. All the fuss about using the Orme, but it still features
I'm surprised they didn't hold all the "southern" stages on the Friday and have the rest of the weekend up north.
Saturday is a long day without a service again. That's gonna see quite a few retirements I think!
It'll be a one day event for me this year by the looks as I cant afford to spend out what I did last year to marshal 2 days. Myherin gets my initial vote for stages to do, may go Sweet Lamb for a change. Will be my first event as a solo radio car.
I've been watching all the video clips on youtube/twitter, looks like a nice event to visit. Such a shame for Ingram to fall ill, after the team rebuilt his car after his testing accident.
As for the lack of interest in this thread and the sport, I would say the whole Ph Motorsport section is a hell of a lot quieter than it used to be. It's much easier these days to follow events and comment on social media than on forums. I don't use British Rally forum anymore and rarely venture onto Motorsport forum, where it seems to be endless pages of comments about whos faster at each split, or stupid petty comments from certain users.
As for the lack of interest in this thread and the sport, I would say the whole Ph Motorsport section is a hell of a lot quieter than it used to be. It's much easier these days to follow events and comment on social media than on forums. I don't use British Rally forum anymore and rarely venture onto Motorsport forum, where it seems to be endless pages of comments about whos faster at each split, or stupid petty comments from certain users.
Edited by Allyc85 on Saturday 5th May 21:30
It's a great shame; postponed thanks to the bad weather in early March, so re-arranged for late May B/H Sunday....and now cancelled. And as you say, the Plains, scheduled for this weekend, isn't exactly looking healthy.
The sport in the UK needs a massive shot in the arm; but I have no idea what that could be. Can't help feel it's the poor relation of UK Motorsport.
The sport in the UK needs a massive shot in the arm; but I have no idea what that could be. Can't help feel it's the poor relation of UK Motorsport.
ArnageWRC said:
Some spot on points in that article. and pretty much echoes what we've all been saying for the last 2 years or so!Homologation specials would be fantastic. especially when you consider the Fiesta is badges as the RS, yet Ford only make a ST variant of the car!!
The closest car on sale to anything in the current WRC categories is the R2 Fiesta which puts out the same power as the outgoing ST road car.
Some headlines from Motorsport News recently New push to get privateers back in WRC - they talk about downsizing the restrictor to bring performance to the last generation of cars. when you consider they offered a privateers championship in those cars and no one took it seriously I think that says it all. Why have the looks and cost of the 2017 Cars, but the performance of the old generation?
Rally seeding rules relaxed About time!!! the 2015 decision decimated forest rallying for the shoestring competitors. Even some of the more flush players stepped down like Steve Perez and the Stratos. Lets hope its not too little too late now.
ArnageWRC said:
not convinced on most of those arguments. I like the current WRC cars, it makes the dog ugly C3 look cool in a 6r4esque kind of way. For me the cars have just got to have a lot of power. We had the 300hp 'official' limit for nearly 30 years for grp A, even if in reality the cars produced more than that occasionally.So I like the cars, and want to see more power in the next evolution. For the green brigade I think there should be a CO2 limit introduced across the event. I.e. from start ramp to finish ramp the wrc car can't emit more than average of 99g/km of co2. So road sections might require some different forms of driving challenges.
From the UK perspective we have too many events, so participation is low, however a quick glance at an old programme for the Cartel International Rally of 1988 only showed around 90 competitors in the main event. So numbers are not down that much.
There should be 3 leagues of rallying in the UK - single venue, max 2 per month nationally, single day multi
-venue, max 18 per year and 8 or so international rallies. At the very least one motor club only should organize the international rallies
Tarmac rallying in the UK has the opportunity to increase the profile and participation of rallying in the UK. It just needs time to develop and event to be created, but as with my previous point the overall number of events needs to be limited.
Edited by Jerry Can on Wednesday 9th May 21:50
chunder27 said:
Most GpN cars produced more than 300hp, the GpA cars were well over 400 and into the 450's for the majority of the GpA era other than perhaps the first year.
Not convinced. Most Group A cars (depending on restrictor size) were closer to 380hp.No doubt the Integrales when required were cranked up to 400-420hp, but the Imprezas and Evos would have been less than 400hp.
I think with the 34 mm restrictor you might be right, but initially, Cosworths and the like were well into the 400's.
Toyota built a Supra Turbo for long distance events, and that engine can produce massive power.
I would think they were adjustable too, many a time was a certain car behind for a while, they suddenly much quicker the morning or batch of stages after a service, where the boost was turned up.
But I think the WRC cars and the GpA stuff pre that was closer to your mark. After Toyota gate the scrutes were a bit wiser!
Toyota built a Supra Turbo for long distance events, and that engine can produce massive power.
I would think they were adjustable too, many a time was a certain car behind for a while, they suddenly much quicker the morning or batch of stages after a service, where the boost was turned up.
But I think the WRC cars and the GpA stuff pre that was closer to your mark. After Toyota gate the scrutes were a bit wiser!
chunder27 said:
I think with the 34 mm restrictor you might be right, but initially, Cosworths and the like were well into the 400's.
Toyota built a Supra Turbo for long distance events, and that engine can produce massive power.
I would think they were adjustable too, many a time was a certain car behind for a while, they suddenly much quicker the morning or batch of stages after a service, where the boost was turned up.
But I think the WRC cars and the GpA stuff pre that was closer to your mark. After Toyota gate the scrutes were a bit wiser!
That'd be Lancia then .... Toyota built a Supra Turbo for long distance events, and that engine can produce massive power.
I would think they were adjustable too, many a time was a certain car behind for a while, they suddenly much quicker the morning or batch of stages after a service, where the boost was turned up.
But I think the WRC cars and the GpA stuff pre that was closer to your mark. After Toyota gate the scrutes were a bit wiser!
I have a long time friend who worked for Ralliart for over 15 years. At the final service halt on the Monte, the Mitsubishi team were servicing their cars right next to Lancia.
Auriol arrived trailing Sainz and needing a gain a handful of time to overhaul the Toyota driver. Once up on its stands the Integrale was plugged into a laptop and upon being restarted the car sounded very different indeed.
Auriol drove off and the mechanics congratulated each other on their efforts. But what was that sitting on the floor in the doorway of one of the service vans ? It looks like some kind of insert that bears a remarkable similarity to the inside of a turbo restrictor.
And so it was, the machined finish on the aluminium hiding the joint where the inner insert met the outside of the restrictor, the two parts screwed together using an incredibly fine left hand thread....
I've alluded to this article before, but Martin Sharp followed Lancia around the UK on their final (I think) RAC rally, he commented in the feature he did for Triple C that he thought it strange the Lancia mechanics were replacing the fire extinguishers on the Integrales at every service halt ....
Now they may have just been being especially diligent in the wake of Toivenen's death in one of their cars, OR their motives may have been entirely different ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMRUHGnN29s
Lancia were famous for doing things like this.
That can't have been Mitsubishi, anal point, but they did not really return until 1993 as a factory team did they? Or was it 92. You might be right. But in 93 the Lambo team ran Sainz in a Repsol Delta, so must have been earlier.
Lancis did mid stage servicing, tyre changes etc. They were total cheats, and got done several times in the mid 80's. Even in the Grand Tour thing Clarkson did, he hints at it as does Fiorio in interviews!
They tried to throw Peugeot out of Sanremo in 86 and then got done themselves in 87 for removing number plates on the first Delta to reveal two huge holes for cooling.
That can't have been Mitsubishi, anal point, but they did not really return until 1993 as a factory team did they? Or was it 92. You might be right. But in 93 the Lambo team ran Sainz in a Repsol Delta, so must have been earlier.
Lancis did mid stage servicing, tyre changes etc. They were total cheats, and got done several times in the mid 80's. Even in the Grand Tour thing Clarkson did, he hints at it as does Fiorio in interviews!
They tried to throw Peugeot out of Sanremo in 86 and then got done themselves in 87 for removing number plates on the first Delta to reveal two huge holes for cooling.
chunder27 said:
Lancia were famous for doing things like this.
That can't have been Mitsubishi, anal point, but they did not really return until 1993 as a factory team did they? Or was it 92. You might be right. But in 93 the Lambo team ran Sainz in a Repsol Delta, so must have been earlier.
Lancis did mid stage servicing, tyre changes etc. They were total cheats, and got done several times in the mid 80's. Even in the Grand Tour thing Clarkson did, he hints at it as does Fiorio in interviews!
They tried to throw Peugeot out of Sanremo in 86 and then got done themselves in 87 for removing number plates on the first Delta to reveal two huge holes for cooling.
I think it most likely would have been '92 ?That can't have been Mitsubishi, anal point, but they did not really return until 1993 as a factory team did they? Or was it 92. You might be right. But in 93 the Lambo team ran Sainz in a Repsol Delta, so must have been earlier.
Lancis did mid stage servicing, tyre changes etc. They were total cheats, and got done several times in the mid 80's. Even in the Grand Tour thing Clarkson did, he hints at it as does Fiorio in interviews!
They tried to throw Peugeot out of Sanremo in 86 and then got done themselves in 87 for removing number plates on the first Delta to reveal two huge holes for cooling.
At least removing the number plate to reveal some extra cooling is a bit more discrete than Audi trying to swap Mouton's ? Quattro on the Ivory Coast or Safari
Edited by Slippydiff on Saturday 12th May 13:54
ArnageWRC said:
I don't get the need to have a link to road cars. Things like the Stratos were available. No one watching would ever see or buy one. Same goes for the group B cars which would've become group S at which point the road links would've been even more tenuous.
bloomen said:
I don't get the need to have a link to road cars.
It's like the ability to buy the shirt - if you've got fans they will demonstrate their affection in a number of ways. The problem is the base cars which fill the WRC ranks are, in the main, boring little hatchbacks. FWD Fiestas, Hyundais and Citroens clog up our roads every day and no-one thinks of the WRC. Very different to the days of the Stratos, RS Escort or Subaru.
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