The 2018 Rallying thread..(WRC, ERC, etc)
Discussion
chunder27 said:
Arnage
You do know how PR works don't you?
You can't say anything bad about your team, even if its awful.
which is why no-one reads it!
Other than journalists who use it for their careers
Funnily enough, yes I do, but it's just ridiculous. You do know how PR works don't you?
You can't say anything bad about your team, even if its awful.
which is why no-one reads it!
Other than journalists who use it for their careers
However, I reminded of the famous 'Some Mothers Do 'Ave 'Em' episode, were Frank enrols on a PR course.....with inevitable consequences....."You're not supposed to tell the truth, you're PR officer"
Some interesting questions were floating around after Sardinia on the use of Rally2.
Elfyn lost 13 minutes in stage 2 after breaking a control arm and deciding to fix it at teh stage side and in doing so punting him to the bottom of the table.
Then Ott, Jari-Matt & Suninen all retire under Rally2 and incur the penalty. All get recovered and all 3 come out of service with a fixed motor ahead of Elfyn.
At what point does it become easier for a crew to retire and take Rally2 for the next day to try and salvage some points? Had Elfyn retired in SS2 instead of trying to fix it he could (no guarantees of course) have finished much further up the standings without the stress of trying to fix the car on a live stage side. Not even sure Suninen had damage, just got stuck in the undergrowth and couldn't get recovered so opted to retire.
Mid season break up now and as yet M-Sport or Citroen haven't confirmed entries for Finland. I imagine M-Sport will run the same 3 cars & drivers as Sardinia. Will be astounded if Citroen doesn't name Mads as Meeke's replacement for the season.
Other new -
WRC team pushing for 2019 Rally Italy boycott if it's on Sardinia - For all the reasons its been said that WRC will never return to Mid Wales service due to no accommodation or major footflow at service they've now attacked Sardinia for the same reasons.
World Rally drivers want 'stupid' artificial jumps banned - Agree on this one. The jump into Portugal shakedown was bonkers high! great for pictures and live spectators but hell for the crews.
Sebastien Ogier: 2019 WRC decision between M-Sport and retirement - nothing news there really. If he wins the title he may retire as champion "as the right time to go". if he loses he'll call it a day "at the right time to go"
I don't think he'd move back to Citroen, I guess the way the rest of the season goes will say if Toyota or Hyundai are an option. But would he move if Thierry and Ott stay as strong as they are now. I cant see him being lead driver over them, multiple champ or not.
Drivers market could be interesting. Only Ott and Andreas have contracts into next season so far. Cant imagine Hyundai wont extend Neuville's.
Elfyn lost 13 minutes in stage 2 after breaking a control arm and deciding to fix it at teh stage side and in doing so punting him to the bottom of the table.
Then Ott, Jari-Matt & Suninen all retire under Rally2 and incur the penalty. All get recovered and all 3 come out of service with a fixed motor ahead of Elfyn.
At what point does it become easier for a crew to retire and take Rally2 for the next day to try and salvage some points? Had Elfyn retired in SS2 instead of trying to fix it he could (no guarantees of course) have finished much further up the standings without the stress of trying to fix the car on a live stage side. Not even sure Suninen had damage, just got stuck in the undergrowth and couldn't get recovered so opted to retire.
Mid season break up now and as yet M-Sport or Citroen haven't confirmed entries for Finland. I imagine M-Sport will run the same 3 cars & drivers as Sardinia. Will be astounded if Citroen doesn't name Mads as Meeke's replacement for the season.
Other new -
WRC team pushing for 2019 Rally Italy boycott if it's on Sardinia - For all the reasons its been said that WRC will never return to Mid Wales service due to no accommodation or major footflow at service they've now attacked Sardinia for the same reasons.
World Rally drivers want 'stupid' artificial jumps banned - Agree on this one. The jump into Portugal shakedown was bonkers high! great for pictures and live spectators but hell for the crews.
Sebastien Ogier: 2019 WRC decision between M-Sport and retirement - nothing news there really. If he wins the title he may retire as champion "as the right time to go". if he loses he'll call it a day "at the right time to go"
I don't think he'd move back to Citroen, I guess the way the rest of the season goes will say if Toyota or Hyundai are an option. But would he move if Thierry and Ott stay as strong as they are now. I cant see him being lead driver over them, multiple champ or not.
Drivers market could be interesting. Only Ott and Andreas have contracts into next season so far. Cant imagine Hyundai wont extend Neuville's.
RyanTank said:
Some interesting questions were floating around after Sardinia on the use of Rally2.
Elfyn lost 13 minutes in stage 2 after breaking a control arm and deciding to fix it at teh stage side and in doing so punting him to the bottom of the table.
Then Ott, Jari-Matt & Suninen all retire under Rally2 and incur the penalty. All get recovered and all 3 come out of service with a fixed motor ahead of Elfyn.
At what point does it become easier for a crew to retire and take Rally2 for the next day to try and salvage some points? Had Elfyn retired in SS2 instead of trying to fix it he could (no guarantees of course) have finished much further up the standings without the stress of trying to fix the car on a live stage side. Not even sure Suninen had damage, just got stuck in the undergrowth and couldn't get recovered so opted to retire.
The Rally2 penalty is 7 minutes (I think) per unfinished stage - because Evans crashed so early in the day if he had retired for Rally2 he would have lost 56 minutes (8 stages x 7 minutes) rather than the 13 he lost fixing the car and getting going again.Elfyn lost 13 minutes in stage 2 after breaking a control arm and deciding to fix it at teh stage side and in doing so punting him to the bottom of the table.
Then Ott, Jari-Matt & Suninen all retire under Rally2 and incur the penalty. All get recovered and all 3 come out of service with a fixed motor ahead of Elfyn.
At what point does it become easier for a crew to retire and take Rally2 for the next day to try and salvage some points? Had Elfyn retired in SS2 instead of trying to fix it he could (no guarantees of course) have finished much further up the standings without the stress of trying to fix the car on a live stage side. Not even sure Suninen had damage, just got stuck in the undergrowth and couldn't get recovered so opted to retire.
The other guys who retired and used Rally2 did so much later in the day (in Latvala's case being unable to tour back to service after finishing the final stage of the day), which meant they didn't accumulate penalty time for as many stages as Evans would have. Its not like they just did it for convenience though, they had major problems they couldn't fix themselves. You could say Evans was lucky that he only broke something he actually could fix on the stage.
Suninen didn't 'opt to retire' either, that would mean he had a choice. He couldn't get back on the road, so he couldn't continue.
Edited by GravelBen on Monday 18th June 03:09
GravelBen said:
The Rally2 penalty is 7 minutes (I think) per unfinished stage - because Evans crashed so early in the day if he had retired for Rally2 he would have lost 56 minutes (8 stages x 7 minutes) rather than the 13 he lost fixing the car and getting going again.
I thought that too, but had different readings of the regs when googling it. FIA documents kept looping to different articles and flip flopping between penalties. Maybe I misunderstood in my sleepless state. RyanTank said:
Some interesting questions were floating around after Sardinia on the use of Rally2.
Elfyn lost 13 minutes in stage 2 after breaking a control arm and deciding to fix it at teh stage side and in doing so punting him to the bottom of the table.
Then Ott, Jari-Matt & Suninen all retire under Rally2 and incur the penalty. All get recovered and all 3 come out of service with a fixed motor ahead of Elfyn.
At what point does it become easier for a crew to retire and take Rally2 for the next day to try and salvage some points? Had Elfyn retired in SS2 instead of trying to fix it he could (no guarantees of course) have finished much further up the standings without the stress of trying to fix the car on a live stage side. Not even sure Suninen had damage, just got stuck in the undergrowth and couldn't get recovered so opted to retire.
Mid season break up now and as yet M-Sport or Citroen haven't confirmed entries for Finland. I imagine M-Sport will run the same 3 cars & drivers as Sardinia. Will be astounded if Citroen doesn't name Mads as Meeke's replacement for the season.
Other new -
WRC team pushing for 2019 Rally Italy boycott if it's on Sardinia - For all the reasons its been said that WRC will never return to Mid Wales service due to no accommodation or major footflow at service they've now attacked Sardinia for the same reasons.
World Rally drivers want 'stupid' artificial jumps banned - Agree on this one. The jump into Portugal shakedown was bonkers high! great for pictures and live spectators but hell for the crews.
Sebastien Ogier: 2019 WRC decision between M-Sport and retirement - nothing news there really. If he wins the title he may retire as champion "as the right time to go". if he loses he'll call it a day "at the right time to go"
I don't think he'd move back to Citroen, I guess the way the rest of the season goes will say if Toyota or Hyundai are an option. But would he move if Thierry and Ott stay as strong as they are now. I cant see him being lead driver over them, multiple champ or not.
Drivers market could be interesting. Only Ott and Andreas have contracts into next season so far. Cant imagine Hyundai wont extend Neuville's.
A driver that tries to finish the day under his own power should never be classified at the end of the day behind those who didn't, simple. I believe next year non-finishers will be sweeping the road?Elfyn lost 13 minutes in stage 2 after breaking a control arm and deciding to fix it at teh stage side and in doing so punting him to the bottom of the table.
Then Ott, Jari-Matt & Suninen all retire under Rally2 and incur the penalty. All get recovered and all 3 come out of service with a fixed motor ahead of Elfyn.
At what point does it become easier for a crew to retire and take Rally2 for the next day to try and salvage some points? Had Elfyn retired in SS2 instead of trying to fix it he could (no guarantees of course) have finished much further up the standings without the stress of trying to fix the car on a live stage side. Not even sure Suninen had damage, just got stuck in the undergrowth and couldn't get recovered so opted to retire.
Mid season break up now and as yet M-Sport or Citroen haven't confirmed entries for Finland. I imagine M-Sport will run the same 3 cars & drivers as Sardinia. Will be astounded if Citroen doesn't name Mads as Meeke's replacement for the season.
Other new -
WRC team pushing for 2019 Rally Italy boycott if it's on Sardinia - For all the reasons its been said that WRC will never return to Mid Wales service due to no accommodation or major footflow at service they've now attacked Sardinia for the same reasons.
World Rally drivers want 'stupid' artificial jumps banned - Agree on this one. The jump into Portugal shakedown was bonkers high! great for pictures and live spectators but hell for the crews.
Sebastien Ogier: 2019 WRC decision between M-Sport and retirement - nothing news there really. If he wins the title he may retire as champion "as the right time to go". if he loses he'll call it a day "at the right time to go"
I don't think he'd move back to Citroen, I guess the way the rest of the season goes will say if Toyota or Hyundai are an option. But would he move if Thierry and Ott stay as strong as they are now. I cant see him being lead driver over them, multiple champ or not.
Drivers market could be interesting. Only Ott and Andreas have contracts into next season so far. Cant imagine Hyundai wont extend Neuville's.
I'd be gutted if Sardinia is dropped. It's a stunning island, with amazing stages and the most friendly of locals. We are planning a return next year and have have everything crossed that it will run, and at it's current summer date.
I also hope Ogier stays. I think another year of Toyota development could give us a brilliant 3 way scrap for the title between him, Tank and Neuville.
Allyc85 said:
A driver that tries to finish the day under his own power should never be classified at the end of the day behind those who didn't, simple. I believe next year non-finishers will be sweeping the road?
Right from the start of SupeRally/ Rally 2 regs, in my opinion if you missed a stage, then you should automatically finish behind everybody who does the whole event. Similar to show jumping were all clear rounds beat a faster round with faults. As for Ogier, he's still young, and not old enough to retire; if he wants another challenge - why not follow the example of Alonso and try another discipline. I love to see drivers show their versatility.
Allyc85 said:
A driver that tries to finish the day under his own power should never be classified at the end of the day behind those who didn't, simple. I believe next year non-finishers will be sweeping the road?
Every single driver in the field tried to finish the day under their own power, suggesting otherwise is nonsense. They didn't retire just because they felt like it and they certainly didn't get an advantage from retiring.Normally the Rally2 penalty is enough to make sure anyone rejoining after retiring is well behind any finishers, I'm not sure if the situation with Evans repairing his car and finishing but losing more time than later Rally2 retirees has happened before? Maybe they will revise the rules for next year to make sure it doesn't happen again.
They'll never keep everyone happy with the road position of Rally2 cars though - if you start them first they sweep loose gravel but have the advantage of nice clean tarmac (or less mud), if you start them last vice versa. I guess you could let each event decide, but advantage or disadvantage can still be quite subject to weather.
Edited by GravelBen on Tuesday 19th June 01:58
Had a great day out on Saturday at the NZRC South Canterbury Rally - the events first time as a championship round in about 30 years, based around the town where I grew up so it was fun watching rallying on roads I learnt to drive on.
DSC_7755 by Ben, on Flickr
DSC_7574 by Ben, on Flickr
DSC_7311 by Ben, on Flickr
Full album here: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmefNpyd
DSC_7755 by Ben, on FlickrDSC_7574 by Ben, on FlickrDSC_7311 by Ben, on FlickrFull album here: https://flic.kr/s/aHsmefNpyd
Had a nice day out a local club rally on Saturday, unusually warm and sunny for this time of year down here. Last couple of years the same rally has been mixed snow and mud instead of this years mostly dry gravel.
DSC_0557 by Ben
DSC_0570 by Ben
DSC_0645 by Ben, on Flickr
DSC_0632 by Ben
DSC_0887 by Ben
DSC_1069 by Ben
DSC_1331 by Ben, on Flickr
DSC_1343 by Ben
DSC_1419 by Ben, on Flickr
Album here: https://flic.kr/s/aHskCVdmFa
DSC_0557 by BenDSC_0570 by BenDSC_0645 by Ben, on FlickrDSC_0632 by BenDSC_0887 by BenDSC_1069 by BenDSC_1331 by Ben, on FlickrDSC_1343 by BenDSC_1419 by Ben, on FlickrAlbum here: https://flic.kr/s/aHskCVdmFa
The action from NZ always looks super; there was live coverage on Faceache over the weekend of the latest NZ series.....
It's absolute madness that there is no WRC round there.....very much the WRC's loss....
The driving talent from a small population of NZ is immense; current drivers Dixon, Bamber, Hartley, Van Gisbergen & Paddon et al performing all over the globe.
It's absolute madness that there is no WRC round there.....very much the WRC's loss....
The driving talent from a small population of NZ is immense; current drivers Dixon, Bamber, Hartley, Van Gisbergen & Paddon et al performing all over the globe.
Yip, NZ rallying is in a pretty healthy state at the moment. 
For some context - that rally was a local club and regional series event not a national championship round, it still had nearly 70 entries including the current NZ champ in a top spec AP4 car... who finished second to a local bloke in an old Evo 3.
For some context - that rally was a local club and regional series event not a national championship round, it still had nearly 70 entries including the current NZ champ in a top spec AP4 car... who finished second to a local bloke in an old Evo 3.
Great shots as always. That Rx7 must be a handful and can't have a huge amount of suspension travel!
Facebook live from the Goldrush Coromandel Rally in New Zealand..
https://www.facebook.com/newzealandrallychampionsh...
Facebook live from the Goldrush Coromandel Rally in New Zealand..
https://www.facebook.com/newzealandrallychampionsh...
Allyc85 said:
Great shots as always. That Rx7 must be a handful and can't have a huge amount of suspension travel!
Facebook live from the Goldrush Coromandel Rally in New Zealand..
https://www.facebook.com/newzealandrallychampionsh...
great photos and fantastic to see an Rx7 out. Rallying used to have lots of odd-ball cars entered, you dont see it so much these days.Facebook live from the Goldrush Coromandel Rally in New Zealand..
https://www.facebook.com/newzealandrallychampionsh...
Great pics Ben! Those Mazda RX's must be an awesome sound through the stages! You guys really do have a weird and wonderful array of cars competing too. How competative are the other AP4 cars with Paddons factory backed i20? as I understand it its basically a detuned 2016 WRC car. but possibly just internet talk on that.
It's an absolute travesty that New Zealand isn't in the calendar again
It's an absolute travesty that New Zealand isn't in the calendar again
Love watching the NZ Championship on YouTube; the events look fabulous, and the roads are another level. Even more reason to despair at the BRC.....
And the muddled thinking of the WRC promoters who won't pick NZ yet go to another dry, dusty generic southern European gravel event, who just happen to have £$£$£$£$
And the muddled thinking of the WRC promoters who won't pick NZ yet go to another dry, dusty generic southern European gravel event, who just happen to have £$£$£$£$
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