Brands Hatch new catch fencing.
Discussion
Hi there, my first post on the forums - think this is the right one....
I have been going to Brands Hatch to watch racing on both two and four wheels since the early Nineties. It is a truly fantastic circuit. One of the draw-cards for spectators and amateur photographers like me was the wide open viewing - you could always get to pretty much any part of the track if you were prepared to walk (ie for the GP circuit). However as of my visit yesterday for the Blancpain GT championship, I don't know if I will be going as much. They have put up tall, silver steel fencing in most parts of the circuit that makes taking any photographs pretty much impossible unless you have a massive lens or a media pass. For example, Stirlings is now 'out of bounds' completely for spectators, whether taking pictures or not. You can't get to it at all. There are fenced off paths that you have to follow - signs remind you that walking outside these paths is trespassing.
I spoke to many people yesterday (both spectating and trying to take pictures) who were equally unhappy with these fences. One person who seemed to know a lot about Brands in general said that they had been put in so that Brands could host the DTM - not sure if that is true though? I understand the need for an amount of spectator safety however motorsport is dangerous and people know this and still go, even before these huge fences were put in. They are complete overkill. In my opinion, whatever the reason is, they have completely ruined it as a spectators' venue, unless you like watching from a grandstand - a real shame.
I have been going to Brands Hatch to watch racing on both two and four wheels since the early Nineties. It is a truly fantastic circuit. One of the draw-cards for spectators and amateur photographers like me was the wide open viewing - you could always get to pretty much any part of the track if you were prepared to walk (ie for the GP circuit). However as of my visit yesterday for the Blancpain GT championship, I don't know if I will be going as much. They have put up tall, silver steel fencing in most parts of the circuit that makes taking any photographs pretty much impossible unless you have a massive lens or a media pass. For example, Stirlings is now 'out of bounds' completely for spectators, whether taking pictures or not. You can't get to it at all. There are fenced off paths that you have to follow - signs remind you that walking outside these paths is trespassing.
I spoke to many people yesterday (both spectating and trying to take pictures) who were equally unhappy with these fences. One person who seemed to know a lot about Brands in general said that they had been put in so that Brands could host the DTM - not sure if that is true though? I understand the need for an amount of spectator safety however motorsport is dangerous and people know this and still go, even before these huge fences were put in. They are complete overkill. In my opinion, whatever the reason is, they have completely ruined it as a spectators' venue, unless you like watching from a grandstand - a real shame.
89pgy said:
this is one reason for the higher fencing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbmcvJj7CNU
Cripes, haven’t seen that before. Damned scary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbmcvJj7CNU
Yeah, I remember that crash, a big one - back in 2010. I completely get the need for spectator safety, but there should be a balance between safety and accessibility.
Motorsport is dangerous and people go to watch knowing that there is a risk - there is an indemnity printed on every ticket, I think. The fencing that was in place before the new stuff was erected was enough. But the biggest disappointment is making some of the track (ie Stirlings) completely inaccessible - just can't understand why they would do that?
Motorsport is dangerous and people go to watch knowing that there is a risk - there is an indemnity printed on every ticket, I think. The fencing that was in place before the new stuff was erected was enough. But the biggest disappointment is making some of the track (ie Stirlings) completely inaccessible - just can't understand why they would do that?
A few years ago I was told that some of the fencing that appeared on the infield section of Druids was at the behast of DTM.
I was dismayed when I heard that DTM was going to use the GP circuit as I knew that this would follow suit.
I would have thought Donington would have been a better venue, and now part of the MSV fold.
I was dismayed when I heard that DTM was going to use the GP circuit as I knew that this would follow suit.
I would have thought Donington would have been a better venue, and now part of the MSV fold.
It is simple, vote with your feet.
Email MSV and tell them?
THey wont do anything about it, but if enough people complain, they might modify it a bit.
But this will have been risk assessed, and I imagine MXV will have done a lot to try and get a better deal, but this is the result.
Simply means a lot of fans and amateur snappers wont go there anymore as it was a great place to take pics.
And that SEAT was a totally freak accident.
Email MSV and tell them?
THey wont do anything about it, but if enough people complain, they might modify it a bit.
But this will have been risk assessed, and I imagine MXV will have done a lot to try and get a better deal, but this is the result.
Simply means a lot of fans and amateur snappers wont go there anymore as it was a great place to take pics.
And that SEAT was a totally freak accident.
stopped going to brands a few years ago, when they decided any minor incident required a safety car.
It meant you spent a huge part of your day watching slow speed processions instead of racing.
I understand the need in some high octane racing but do you really need a safety car when a 1960 lotus runs wide at paddock?
It meant you spent a huge part of your day watching slow speed processions instead of racing.
I understand the need in some high octane racing but do you really need a safety car when a 1960 lotus runs wide at paddock?
Totally agree. The draw of attending brands when the GP circuit was being used was huge due to the viewing experience, lack of crowds and no deafening tannoy. The fencing has now ruined that and no doubt they now have somewhere to attach a tannoy.
I don't believe the public safety argument. How long has Brands been running with low barriers and how many cars or indeed superbike riders ended up spectator side.
I think it's more about protecting their drivers and reputation.
I certainly won't be rushing their to see what was my next planned GP hosted event. Which funny enough was due to be the DTM.
I don't believe the public safety argument. How long has Brands been running with low barriers and how many cars or indeed superbike riders ended up spectator side.
I think it's more about protecting their drivers and reputation.
I certainly won't be rushing their to see what was my next planned GP hosted event. Which funny enough was due to be the DTM.
May I suggest a trip up north to Cadwell Park. OK, they don't get the larger series but you are very close to the action with largely unobstructed views.
HSCC Wolds Trophy event in a couple of weeks (19th/20th May) and the BRSCC a few weeks after (2nd/3rd) are both normally top drawer.
HSCC Wolds Trophy event in a couple of weeks (19th/20th May) and the BRSCC a few weeks after (2nd/3rd) are both normally top drawer.
ST3Black said:
Yeah, I remember that crash, a big one - back in 2010. I completely get the need for spectator safety, but there should be a balance between safety and accessibility.
Motorsport is dangerous and people go to watch knowing that there is a risk - there is an indemnity printed on every ticket, I think.
Might I draw your attention to the events of the Snow Man Rally & Jim Clark from 3 & 4 years ago - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-south-scotla...Motorsport is dangerous and people go to watch knowing that there is a risk - there is an indemnity printed on every ticket, I think.
With particular attention to the second part of your statement. These people knew the risks, one being a seasoned photographer who really should have known better. But this didn't stop criminal action being brought against the organisers and the driver/co driver. And when you take into account the blame culture we sadly live in now that anyone injured at any event is suing the organisers for negligence, despite the injured party clearly being to blame, and there lies the reasons for the catch fencing that are spoiling your views.
Edited by RyanTank on Wednesday 9th May 23:32
Yet we had a road rally in Essex a few months ago that passed without a hitch loved by the locals.
If you read the articles and judges comments from both events the jim clark was pathetic, the guy was told multiple times to move, at a very dangerous point, hid away when course cars came past, and the other event, was so random it was about as likely as the Seat accident. Neither were anything to do with the event, they were due to a total idiot of a cameraman and a horde of people coming into a stage, the area near a bend being very slippery and a freak incident where a car cocked up its heels and went into forestry. 1 in a million chance. Just like the LEON crash.
I couldn't care less if it means the track is still running, why would I care selfishly if it is so crap I cant watch there anymore coz the viewing is utter rot.
And that will be the attitude of a lot of the sort of people that go to Brands event on the long track, mainly keen amateur snappers and fans like me.
As usual the people who take care, spend their money on a hobby they love, lose out because of cretinous lawyers, health and safety goons and over zealous and protective circuit owners.
If you read the articles and judges comments from both events the jim clark was pathetic, the guy was told multiple times to move, at a very dangerous point, hid away when course cars came past, and the other event, was so random it was about as likely as the Seat accident. Neither were anything to do with the event, they were due to a total idiot of a cameraman and a horde of people coming into a stage, the area near a bend being very slippery and a freak incident where a car cocked up its heels and went into forestry. 1 in a million chance. Just like the LEON crash.
I couldn't care less if it means the track is still running, why would I care selfishly if it is so crap I cant watch there anymore coz the viewing is utter rot.
And that will be the attitude of a lot of the sort of people that go to Brands event on the long track, mainly keen amateur snappers and fans like me.
As usual the people who take care, spend their money on a hobby they love, lose out because of cretinous lawyers, health and safety goons and over zealous and protective circuit owners.
That was part of the point I was making. One of the casualties was a seasoned pro who knew better than to be there. Yet look what happened.
The Leon crash was a freak accident, but it highlighted the dangers to those marshals in the location of said freak accident. Had they not been so hot on their feet the outcome would have certainly been another fatality. If the track safety team deem it as a mandatory Marshal point then it is in their remit to provide a safe location for those volunteers. Be it catch fencing or whatever else to use.
Look also at the crash for Jan Mardenbourogh at the ring last year (or the year before) despite the catch fencing he still entered the spectator area, no doubt the fencing helped slow down his progress, and imagine the carnage had the fencing not been there.
As s
t as it is to need them, can they really be spared for the sake of hobbyist photographers and spectators who like to get a little too close to the action?
Complaint about the fencing spoiling the photo at a track is in the same category of the photographers who turn up at my junctions and then complain about the trees and grass being in their way at a forest rally
The Leon crash was a freak accident, but it highlighted the dangers to those marshals in the location of said freak accident. Had they not been so hot on their feet the outcome would have certainly been another fatality. If the track safety team deem it as a mandatory Marshal point then it is in their remit to provide a safe location for those volunteers. Be it catch fencing or whatever else to use.
Look also at the crash for Jan Mardenbourogh at the ring last year (or the year before) despite the catch fencing he still entered the spectator area, no doubt the fencing helped slow down his progress, and imagine the carnage had the fencing not been there.
As s
t as it is to need them, can they really be spared for the sake of hobbyist photographers and spectators who like to get a little too close to the action? Complaint about the fencing spoiling the photo at a track is in the same category of the photographers who turn up at my junctions and then complain about the trees and grass being in their way at a forest rally
I have written too.
Got a reply promptly, fair play.
But sadly the work is likely to be ongoing.
"fences have been carefully positioned by experts in their field" With guidance from national and international regulatory people.
They have an ongoing programmes of safety improvements and this remains their priority.
I think that says it all really! SO expect more and also perhaps not just at Brands Hatch sadly.
Palmer is simply future proofing his venues with the vast sums he has available to do so. I doubt whether some tracks would be able to afford it, so he can then monopolise after they perhaps close.
Got a reply promptly, fair play.
But sadly the work is likely to be ongoing.
"fences have been carefully positioned by experts in their field" With guidance from national and international regulatory people.
They have an ongoing programmes of safety improvements and this remains their priority.
I think that says it all really! SO expect more and also perhaps not just at Brands Hatch sadly.
Palmer is simply future proofing his venues with the vast sums he has available to do so. I doubt whether some tracks would be able to afford it, so he can then monopolise after they perhaps close.
Just received an answer, very similar to yours:
'The new fencing has been put into place for spectator safety. We understand that some of the views are not the same as they were before and we have tried to put as many photography holes in the fence for spectators to take photos. We are doing all of this to make sure you are safe with motorsport constantly developing and getting faster we never know how big the next crash will be so we are lowing the chances of spectators getting hurt.'
Right then - don't know too much about Thruxton apart from it being fast - what is that like for spectators/amateur photographers?
'The new fencing has been put into place for spectator safety. We understand that some of the views are not the same as they were before and we have tried to put as many photography holes in the fence for spectators to take photos. We are doing all of this to make sure you are safe with motorsport constantly developing and getting faster we never know how big the next crash will be so we are lowing the chances of spectators getting hurt.'
Right then - don't know too much about Thruxton apart from it being fast - what is that like for spectators/amateur photographers?
ST3Black said:
Right then - don't know too much about Thruxton apart from it being fast - what is that like for spectators/amateur photographers?
It's not great, you can't stand near the fast bits at all - spectator viewing is only around 1/3 of the track. Lovely place, but not good as a spectator. Bizarrely that has been the case for a very long time.
Catsle Come is basically surrounded by a huge bank that protects fans.
And I simply don't get these recommendations, when the only incidents I can remember are the EAT one.
Did anyone see that Mr2 crash that ended up flying into the fencing at Paddock Hill? And the Mondeo rallycross car that did the same in the 90's. I remember you could stand quite close to paddock before that!
That SEAT crash was such a freak incident, all the corner on the loop are right handers meaning the vast majority of incidents are going to spear left, or after a spin, where the speed will be massively reduced to the right.
Maybe Stirlings section should have been sorted, but to do everything else? Totally unnecessary for me
Catsle Come is basically surrounded by a huge bank that protects fans.
And I simply don't get these recommendations, when the only incidents I can remember are the EAT one.
Did anyone see that Mr2 crash that ended up flying into the fencing at Paddock Hill? And the Mondeo rallycross car that did the same in the 90's. I remember you could stand quite close to paddock before that!
That SEAT crash was such a freak incident, all the corner on the loop are right handers meaning the vast majority of incidents are going to spear left, or after a spin, where the speed will be massively reduced to the right.
Maybe Stirlings section should have been sorted, but to do everything else? Totally unnecessary for me
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