Discussion
It's as real a threat as there's been from him about quitting. This time around though, the reason is something that was caused by their own lack of discipline when facing the media, and it coming back to bite them. Wind the clock back to 2014, and those very public jibes directed at Renault. It didn't sit well, and if they were allowed to, Renault would have walked away from RBR at the end of that year.
Merc and Ferrari had no interest in providing them a power unit (we have to assume because it would make it the best car overall), so Renault were duty bound to keep providing engines. The underlying issue being that with their track record of being critical of their supply chain when things were anything other than a cake walk, it meant no power unit supplier would really volunteer their services unless they were having their own dramas and looked like they'd be without a customer...
...enter - Honda. Divorced from McLaren following some heated exchanges, and wholesale blamed for the lack of performance in the car. We now know that to not be the case, but once your reputation is mud, it's a case of guilty until proven innocent. Torro Rosso, as the 'B' team make a useful test mule. It kept Honda in the fold, after all the money and time they've invested, and if they do a good enough job, it would be adopted by RBR for 2019 - but it's likely they'd have no choice but to use it even if it was a turd, as Renault, providing it's very best French cuisine in the shape of cold served karma, wouldn't be powering their cars next year anyway (that was my understanding at least).
RBR had nowhere to turn, and they have to hope Honda sort it out - in a way I hope they do; they've been through a lot, dealt with a lot of flak and (as shown this year), weren't the root cause of McLaren's issues. On the other hand, Red Bull don't tend to play well with others, and their very public slagging off a supply chain partner, hasn't and wont help them in the long term. I hope RBR are more receptive to the cooling and packaging needs than they have been with Renault, otherwise they can just expect more of the same next year.
On a long enough timeline, the Honda engine might come good, and overtake Ferrari as being the big dog in the power unit stakes, but I think RBR need to be realistic that those days might not be as soon as Melbourne next year, so by mid-2019 it wouldn't be surprising if Horner / Marko start rattling the sabre about how useless they believe Honda to be.
Merc and Ferrari had no interest in providing them a power unit (we have to assume because it would make it the best car overall), so Renault were duty bound to keep providing engines. The underlying issue being that with their track record of being critical of their supply chain when things were anything other than a cake walk, it meant no power unit supplier would really volunteer their services unless they were having their own dramas and looked like they'd be without a customer...
...enter - Honda. Divorced from McLaren following some heated exchanges, and wholesale blamed for the lack of performance in the car. We now know that to not be the case, but once your reputation is mud, it's a case of guilty until proven innocent. Torro Rosso, as the 'B' team make a useful test mule. It kept Honda in the fold, after all the money and time they've invested, and if they do a good enough job, it would be adopted by RBR for 2019 - but it's likely they'd have no choice but to use it even if it was a turd, as Renault, providing it's very best French cuisine in the shape of cold served karma, wouldn't be powering their cars next year anyway (that was my understanding at least).
RBR had nowhere to turn, and they have to hope Honda sort it out - in a way I hope they do; they've been through a lot, dealt with a lot of flak and (as shown this year), weren't the root cause of McLaren's issues. On the other hand, Red Bull don't tend to play well with others, and their very public slagging off a supply chain partner, hasn't and wont help them in the long term. I hope RBR are more receptive to the cooling and packaging needs than they have been with Renault, otherwise they can just expect more of the same next year.
On a long enough timeline, the Honda engine might come good, and overtake Ferrari as being the big dog in the power unit stakes, but I think RBR need to be realistic that those days might not be as soon as Melbourne next year, so by mid-2019 it wouldn't be surprising if Horner / Marko start rattling the sabre about how useless they believe Honda to be.
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 5th September 15:09
Without a descent Honda engine, they have no engine.
Why would they hang around? Multiple engine suppliers are desperately needed together with a sensible budget cap. That way, there could also be a benefit of a decent-sized grid, as well.
CHANGE HAS GOT TO COME. Turning F1 into a series where only 4-teams have the slightest chance of winning a race is not good. B-teams, or 3rd cars, are not a good answer, either.
Why would they hang around? Multiple engine suppliers are desperately needed together with a sensible budget cap. That way, there could also be a benefit of a decent-sized grid, as well.
CHANGE HAS GOT TO COME. Turning F1 into a series where only 4-teams have the slightest chance of winning a race is not good. B-teams, or 3rd cars, are not a good answer, either.
kambites said:
In its entire existence F1 has probably never had a season where more than four teams have a realistic expectation of winning a race.
When was the last time five different teams won races in the same season?
2012, 2008, 2003, 1985, 1983, 1982, 1981, 1977, 1976, 1975, 1974, 1972, 1970, 1967, 1966.When was the last time five different teams won races in the same season?
ghost83 said:
Red bull just come across abit childish u don’t see McLaren or Williams with these threats and let’s be honest McLaren have been through the mill this last few years
Coz Williams exist to race while Mclaren likewise until their road car division built up....while Red Bull race for fun and product placement.kambites said:
In its entire existence F1 has probably never had a season where more than four teams have a realistic expectation of winning a race.
When was the last time five different teams won races in the same season?
In 2012, the first 5 races were won by different teams.When was the last time five different teams won races in the same season?
Edited by kambites on Wednesday 5th September 16:44
ghost83 said:
Red bull just come across abit childish u don’t see McLaren or Williams with these threats and let’s be honest McLaren have been through the mill this last few years
Are you joking? McLaren were fixing their own races to underperform in order to make the Honda engine worse than it was. You think an employee should be given to rubbishing your technical partner and investor to millions all over the globe at their home grand prix?As for Red Bull, I actually have grown to like them as a team. I want the team to stick around even if the brand doesn't anyway, to be honest though I'm not that certain they get value for money from being a team owner although I'll be the first to admit I don't know the figures.
I still see the F1 demographic as an important marketing sector for them however.
Dr Z said:
2012, 2008, 2003, 1985, 1983, 1982, 1981, 1977, 1976, 1975, 1974, 1972, 1970, 1967, 1966.
So there was a purple patch of 20 years where in 60% of the years 5 teams won...thats not bad. The other 3 are arguably outliers though....
Basically its been a rarity in my lifetime.
Who were the teams in each year.....
03 - Williams, Ferrari, McLaren, Renault, Jordan?
08 - McLaren, Ferrari, Renault, BMW Sauber, Torro Rosso
12 - That was a proper weird tyre muddle!
So in those 2 years, the three outlier teams won 3 races between them.
In fact in 2003 only 3 of the teams won more than once, and in 2008 it was only 2.
The stats paint a rosier picture than is necessarily the case
Edited by Vocal Minority on Wednesday 5th September 18:01
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