Alonso's legacy?
Discussion
https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24184/10972253/f...
For me it is one of the most disappointing in F1 possibly ever, when not factoring in mortality of earlier years. As a driver he has proven to be pure class. Speed, consistency, racecraft. He had everything that was required, yet someone like Vettel who IMO is not in the same universe, has eclipsed his results.
How can a guy keep signing and sticking with the wrong teams as consistently as he managed? Such a miss.
He's left as a mere double-champ, but somehow it's an empty feeling thinking he should've competed at the top so much more than he did.
He'd better sign up for several seasons of Indycar. A series like that needs to see what his quality can undoubtedly still produce.
For me it is one of the most disappointing in F1 possibly ever, when not factoring in mortality of earlier years. As a driver he has proven to be pure class. Speed, consistency, racecraft. He had everything that was required, yet someone like Vettel who IMO is not in the same universe, has eclipsed his results.
How can a guy keep signing and sticking with the wrong teams as consistently as he managed? Such a miss.
He's left as a mere double-champ, but somehow it's an empty feeling thinking he should've competed at the top so much more than he did.
He'd better sign up for several seasons of Indycar. A series like that needs to see what his quality can undoubtedly still produce.
If you judge a driver on his numbers i agree but Gilles has left a massive legacy and his stats a pretty meagre. For me, Alonso is the best ive seen since i started watching F1 in 92, his biggest mistake wasn't the McLaren falling out but not signing for Red Bull in the wake of it. Then again its easy to say that with hindsight.
Alonso, when you add it up, was about 8 points short of being a five time world champion- and that would've been for three different teams within the space of eight years.
IMO to dismiss him as 'merely a double champion' sells him well short.
I don't much like the guy and I can't speak of his 'legacy', however I observe that he is an immense talent but a duplicitous character- and that stopped him achieving what he should've.
Sometimes in life it appears that nice guys finish last and the bad guys win. What I have from Alonso is an example where that was not the case.
IMO to dismiss him as 'merely a double champion' sells him well short.
I don't much like the guy and I can't speak of his 'legacy', however I observe that he is an immense talent but a duplicitous character- and that stopped him achieving what he should've.
Sometimes in life it appears that nice guys finish last and the bad guys win. What I have from Alonso is an example where that was not the case.
HustleRussell said:
Alonso, when you add it up, was about 8 points short of being a five time world champion- and that would've been for three different teams within the space of eight years.
IMO to dismiss him as 'merely a double champion' sells him well short.
Hamilton is 4 points short of being a 7 time champion...the record books are written on what you have achieved, not what you should have achievedIMO to dismiss him as 'merely a double champion' sells him well short.
I think this is one of the defining/strange (unique even?) things about motorsport, it's not just the driver that makes results, it's the combination of driver and car. To most people in the know, Alonso is one of the best drivers of the last two decades, because they can separate the driver from the car. To people who just see the total result, he isn't. This is the cause of many disagreements in motorsport discussions that I see on Facebook, PH etc. I agree, it's a terrible shame he never really got a good car, but I think his legacy will live on. Stirling Moss is another good example; a great driver, but he was either in a slow car, or in a good car next to Fangio, so the result was that he never even won a GP championship. Nevertheless Moss' talent is recognised and remembered and I'm sure Alonso's will be too, perhaps moreso than drivers who've won championships.
Edited by RobM77 on Friday 7th December 16:17
37chevy said:
HustleRussell said:
Alonso, when you add it up, was about 8 points short of being a five time world champion- and that would've been for three different teams within the space of eight years.
IMO to dismiss him as 'merely a double champion' sells him well short.
Hamilton is 4 points short of being a 7 time champion...the record books are written on what you have achieved, not what you should have achievedIMO to dismiss him as 'merely a double champion' sells him well short.
But he’s had a dominant car for at least 4 years, arguably more.
REALIST123 said:
37chevy said:
HustleRussell said:
Alonso, when you add it up, was about 8 points short of being a five time world champion- and that would've been for three different teams within the space of eight years.
IMO to dismiss him as 'merely a double champion' sells him well short.
Hamilton is 4 points short of being a 7 time champion...the record books are written on what you have achieved, not what you should have achievedIMO to dismiss him as 'merely a double champion' sells him well short.
But he’s had a dominant car for at least 4 years, arguably more.
In 2016 Rosberg beat him in the other dominant car. Fair play to him
In 2007, he lost out due to in-fighting in McLaren.
With regard to Alonso himself, I don't get the fawning over his career. I like him, he won two titles, he was a good driver and perhaps should have had more.
Do I lose sleep over this? Do I have an 'empty' feeling? Heck no - he was the epitome of making one's own bed and having to lie in it.
Muzzer79 said:
REALIST123 said:
37chevy said:
HustleRussell said:
Alonso, when you add it up, was about 8 points short of being a five time world champion- and that would've been for three different teams within the space of eight years.
IMO to dismiss him as 'merely a double champion' sells him well short.
Hamilton is 4 points short of being a 7 time champion...the record books are written on what you have achieved, not what you should have achievedIMO to dismiss him as 'merely a double champion' sells him well short.
But he’s had a dominant car for at least 4 years, arguably more.
In 2016 Rosberg beat him in the other dominant car. Fair play to him
In 2007, he lost out due to in-fighting in McLaren.
With regard to Alonso himself, I don't get the fawning over his career. I like him, he won two titles, he was a good driver and perhaps should have had more.
Do I lose sleep over this? Do I have an 'empty' feeling? Heck no - he was the epitome of making one's own bed and having to lie in it.
Edited by LP670 on Friday 7th December 16:54
LP670 said:
Tbf the 2007 and 2008 McLaren cars were not dominant, they were closely matched with the Ferrari equivalents.
As was this years until vettel imploded.Either way it’s down to the driver to place himself in a team and make it work. That’s why all the greats are great. Fangio moved teams to be with the best car as have Hamilton and Schumacher. Alonso on the other hand has made horrendous career choices, whether it was falling out with mclaren, leaving Ferrari or rejoining mclaren instead of red bull. That to me is what defines his career....immensely talented? Hard to tell when you’re in the wrong car...
HustleRussell said:
Alonso, when you add it up, was about 8 points short of being a five time world champion- and that would've been for three different teams within the space of eight years.
IMO to dismiss him as 'merely a double champion' sells him well short.
I don't much like the guy and I can't speak of his 'legacy', however I observe that he is an immense talent but a duplicitous character- and that stopped him achieving what he should've.
Sometimes in life it appears that nice guys finish last and the bad guys win. What I have from Alonso is an example where that was not the case.
This hits it on the head. What other drivers - other than those who have won 5 - have ever been closer to 5 times world champion than by 5 points?IMO to dismiss him as 'merely a double champion' sells him well short.
I don't much like the guy and I can't speak of his 'legacy', however I observe that he is an immense talent but a duplicitous character- and that stopped him achieving what he should've.
Sometimes in life it appears that nice guys finish last and the bad guys win. What I have from Alonso is an example where that was not the case.
The McLaren's he drove and the results he got had no right to get them. He got them there.
When he narrowly lost out the title to Hamilton when he was at Ferrari, that Ferrari should never have been where it was. He got it there.
The number of qualifying performances and race results he got with his Minardi? See above.
On stats alone he isn't great, but on what he did when he was on track, that's what makes him one of the best to compete in F1. If/when he gets the Indy 500, he'll be one of two drivers ever to do that, and I don't think Montoya is in a position to achieve it.
slipstream 1985 said:
Luck plays a part in it as well. Theres no way Jenson staying with Brawn was a decesion working out that the car would be the fastest it was a case of nothing else and nearly no drive. Yes you can say you mke your own luck but soeties you just get lucky.
Absolutely. There's also no way Hamilton could have known that McLaren's fortunes would turn and Mercedes would dominate.RobM77 said:
slipstream 1985 said:
Luck plays a part in it as well. Theres no way Jenson staying with Brawn was a decesion working out that the car would be the fastest it was a case of nothing else and nearly no drive. Yes you can say you mke your own luck but soeties you just get lucky.
Absolutely. There's also no way Hamilton could have known that McLaren's fortunes would turn and Mercedes would dominate.
I'll go along with the fact that Jenson was lucky to be in the right place at the right time. He couldn't have known that the car would be so dominant and he didn't have a lot of choice but to take the drive even if it wasn't
But Lewis didn't sign for Mercedes on a hunch. They showed him the development on the engine side, who they'd brought in, what resources they were throwing at the project.
Yes, it was still a gamble and yes he couldn't have known that McLaren would fall so far but it wasn't pure luck in making that choice.
Fernando Alonso BEAT Michael Schumacher, in the Overall World FIA F1 Driver standings, while Michael was still driving at Ferrari.
This culminated in end of Michael Schumacher’s career at Ferrari.
In doing so, Fernando Alonso became FIA F1 World Champion twice.
SO, for me, personally, the legacy of Fernando Alonso, was the manner in which he ‘retired’ Michael Schumacher from Ferrari.
This culminated in end of Michael Schumacher’s career at Ferrari.
In doing so, Fernando Alonso became FIA F1 World Champion twice.
SO, for me, personally, the legacy of Fernando Alonso, was the manner in which he ‘retired’ Michael Schumacher from Ferrari.
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