2020 Rallying Thread (WRC, ERC and national rally)
Discussion
Pericoloso said:
I missed the post saying WRC was running again , had just about given up on it TBH .
Note to self , pay more attention .
Any highlights on terrestrial telly ?
To be honest it's easy to miss it.Note to self , pay more attention .
Any highlights on terrestrial telly ?
Lockdown affected all sports/motorsports - how you handle it was telling. Most kept ticking over with e-Sports events, or news & stories, etc The WRC went into a form of hibernation. And not only that, when everything restarted, the WRC was the last major series to do so - and by a long way. Not great when there are only 2 full Manufacturers, plus M-Sport with one arm tied behind their back.
The Promoters really need to up their game.
I was going to comment about the rally, but I go on about it enough on Twitter these days! Brilliant drive by Breen, P2 with a couple fastest stage times. Hopefully Hyundai will stop this chopping and changing with it's lineup, and keep him in there full time.
Just seen a link where Forestry England are looking for people's opinions about motorsport taking place on their land. I hate to be negative, but you can't help but think they want the public to say stop it, so they don't have to take the blame for it..
https://www.forestryengland.uk/news/forestry-engla...
Just seen a link where Forestry England are looking for people's opinions about motorsport taking place on their land. I hate to be negative, but you can't help but think they want the public to say stop it, so they don't have to take the blame for it..
https://www.forestryengland.uk/news/forestry-engla...
Allyc85 said:
I was going to comment about the rally, but I go on about it enough on Twitter these days! Brilliant drive by Breen, P2 with a couple fastest stage times. Hopefully Hyundai will stop this chopping and changing with it's lineup, and keep him in there full time.
Just seen a link where Forestry England are looking for people's opinions about motorsport taking place on their land. I hate to be negative, but you can't help but think they want the public to say stop it, so they don't have to take the blame for it..
https://www.forestryengland.uk/news/forestry-engla...
yes it looks like there are people within the forestry commission who have a green agenda and clearly motorsport won't fit within it. I suspect that what will happen is that rallying will be severely restricted in the forests and the the MUK will probably have to ban spectators because of litter and other environmental issues. This will be the beginning of the wind down of forestry rallying in the UK. In 10 years, it'll be SV's on airfields, tarmac rallies and perhaps a small number of forest/gravel rallies on land not owned by the forestry commission. Not great for British rallying however tarmac only events haven't diminished France's ability to produce champions.Just seen a link where Forestry England are looking for people's opinions about motorsport taking place on their land. I hate to be negative, but you can't help but think they want the public to say stop it, so they don't have to take the blame for it..
https://www.forestryengland.uk/news/forestry-engla...
Allyc85 said:
I was going to comment about the rally, but I go on about it enough on Twitter these days! Brilliant drive by Breen, P2 with a couple fastest stage times. Hopefully Hyundai will stop this chopping and changing with it's lineup, and keep him in there full time.
Just seen a link where Forestry England are looking for people's opinions about motorsport taking place on their land. I hate to be negative, but you can't help but think they want the public to say stop it, so they don't have to take the blame for it..
https://www.forestryengland.uk/news/forestry-engla...
To be honest, I can't help but think that if the sport was run better in the UK, was more popular and received decent exposure which brought in all kinds of sponsors/££££££ then ForestryEngland wouldn't be bothered about motorsport on their land; in fact they may even welcome it. They even state themselves that the sport isn't as popular as it was, and they're right. And not only that, it simply doesn't have any influence were it matters.Just seen a link where Forestry England are looking for people's opinions about motorsport taking place on their land. I hate to be negative, but you can't help but think they want the public to say stop it, so they don't have to take the blame for it..
https://www.forestryengland.uk/news/forestry-engla...
However, we need as many people as possible to e-mail them and make them aware of the benefits that motorsport brings to Forestry and the surrounding areas.
Bit of a catch 22. Part of the reason there are less events in forests is the FC themselves, putting more restrictions on dates and what we can or can't use.
No point in "having a go" at other activities that use the forests. Rallyings response need to concentrate on what we bring to the areas.
No point in "having a go" at other activities that use the forests. Rallyings response need to concentrate on what we bring to the areas.
There are other things that use the forests like enduro bikes, off road cars etc.
It is not as popular because it is so expensive and a lot of areas like the Dukeries etc have either been forced out or priced out.
I would guess that in some forests they prepare the roads, or the clubs do, that is a cost, but in the main, all rallying does is use vast swathes of the land, and depending on the weather either choke it with dust or cover it with rocks and stones and make it perhaps a bit tougher to work on for a few weeks.
Yes rally clubs pay for access, meaning it is not as usuable for the public, but for the few times a year it is sued it can't be a huge hindrance,but without input from a FC person how do we know what costs, issues there are?
It is not as popular because it is so expensive and a lot of areas like the Dukeries etc have either been forced out or priced out.
I would guess that in some forests they prepare the roads, or the clubs do, that is a cost, but in the main, all rallying does is use vast swathes of the land, and depending on the weather either choke it with dust or cover it with rocks and stones and make it perhaps a bit tougher to work on for a few weeks.
Yes rally clubs pay for access, meaning it is not as usuable for the public, but for the few times a year it is sued it can't be a huge hindrance,but without input from a FC person how do we know what costs, issues there are?
LukeBrown66 said:
There are other things that use the forests like enduro bikes, off road cars etc.
It is not as popular because it is so expensive and a lot of areas like the Dukeries etc have either been forced out or priced out.
I would guess that in some forests they prepare the roads, or the clubs do, that is a cost, but in the main, all rallying does is use vast swathes of the land, and depending on the weather either choke it with dust or cover it with rocks and stones and make it perhaps a bit tougher to work on for a few weeks.
Yes rally clubs pay for access, meaning it is not as usuable for the public, but for the few times a year it is sued it can't be a huge hindrance,but without input from a FC person how do we know what costs, issues there are?
There has been a framework in place in England (and variations in Wales and Scotland) of the charges per mile for rally use and also the cost of second use (stages run twice as an example) etc. "making good" the roads is all part of the agreed charge (in England) The issues are well known. (by MSUK, the clubs and associations that organise these events) It is not as popular because it is so expensive and a lot of areas like the Dukeries etc have either been forced out or priced out.
I would guess that in some forests they prepare the roads, or the clubs do, that is a cost, but in the main, all rallying does is use vast swathes of the land, and depending on the weather either choke it with dust or cover it with rocks and stones and make it perhaps a bit tougher to work on for a few weeks.
Yes rally clubs pay for access, meaning it is not as usuable for the public, but for the few times a year it is sued it can't be a huge hindrance,but without input from a FC person how do we know what costs, issues there are?
The charges do indeed cover road repairs and all other work (e.g. manpower for permits and risk assessments).
However, there is nothing in the agreement (which I've read) that states they have to repair the roads, or even provide them to the rally in good condition. One variable that has affected events is the fact that felling, extraction, and road work is almost all subcontracted. And the contractors can often define where and when they work at short notice.
For our rally (Mull Targa & Classic) we are lucky to have good relationships with the main contractors, so we have often get advanced knowledge of road availability and condition. But not all events are so lucky.
Another point is that is is generally accepted that the cost of repair is greater than the revenue from the event. So in effect, the FC (hence the taxpayer) are subsidising rallying. I wouldn't be surprised if most forest rallying ceases to exist soon. If it was invented today, there's no way it would be permitted.
Sad times. Closed Public Roads are the way ahead!
However, there is nothing in the agreement (which I've read) that states they have to repair the roads, or even provide them to the rally in good condition. One variable that has affected events is the fact that felling, extraction, and road work is almost all subcontracted. And the contractors can often define where and when they work at short notice.
For our rally (Mull Targa & Classic) we are lucky to have good relationships with the main contractors, so we have often get advanced knowledge of road availability and condition. But not all events are so lucky.
Another point is that is is generally accepted that the cost of repair is greater than the revenue from the event. So in effect, the FC (hence the taxpayer) are subsidising rallying. I wouldn't be surprised if most forest rallying ceases to exist soon. If it was invented today, there's no way it would be permitted.
Sad times. Closed Public Roads are the way ahead!
Let's be frank here, closed roads are the saviours of rallying as a whole. For both drivers and more importantly fans, who have been dealt some pretty hefty blows this last few years.
It is now pretty much impossible to spectate at single venues, or if it is it really isn't worth doing. MSV do put up some events, but it is really a revenue stream for them off peak, and the rallies are basically a series of sprints and woe betide you touch the grass or make a mistake. Forest rallying is looking to be ever more tightly restricted and I do hope it continues I really do, but you can see the writing on the wall from so many places.
Closed roads is the future, lots of countries in Europe manage fine with it, Belgium, Holland, the majority of French events, Italy, Spain most of German rallies are either closed roads or private land (without our nanny state insurance based laws remember this is Germany we are talking about here!! they even have the odd closed road event in Switzerland you know!
It is now pretty much impossible to spectate at single venues, or if it is it really isn't worth doing. MSV do put up some events, but it is really a revenue stream for them off peak, and the rallies are basically a series of sprints and woe betide you touch the grass or make a mistake. Forest rallying is looking to be ever more tightly restricted and I do hope it continues I really do, but you can see the writing on the wall from so many places.
Closed roads is the future, lots of countries in Europe manage fine with it, Belgium, Holland, the majority of French events, Italy, Spain most of German rallies are either closed roads or private land (without our nanny state insurance based laws remember this is Germany we are talking about here!! they even have the odd closed road event in Switzerland you know!
Closed roads are a solution for rallying, but are not a panacea. The number of events currently held in forests are not going to be transferred to closed roads; there are simply too many for this to happen. That would require local authorities to be on board, and how many can you honestly see are pro motorsport in their area?
In all honesty, closed roads should have happened 25-30 years ago, but as ever, it's happened too late.
In all honesty, closed roads should have happened 25-30 years ago, but as ever, it's happened too late.
ArnageWRC said:
Closed roads are a solution for rallying, but are not a panacea. The number of events currently held in forests are not going to be transferred to closed roads; there are simply too many for this to happen. That would require local authorities to be on board, and how many can you honestly see are pro motorsport in their area?
In all honesty, closed roads should have happened 25-30 years ago, but as ever, it's happened too late.
there was a campaign in 1989 for closed road rallying due in part by a desire to have the RAC rally compete on some Humberside and Yorkshire stages. Top Gear did a report on it, but ...momentum.In all honesty, closed roads should have happened 25-30 years ago, but as ever, it's happened too late.
As for the transference of all the events in the forests to the tarmac, clearly that's not going to happen but that is a good thing, as IMHO rallying has needed fewer but better organised events for a long time,. There simply is not enough rally competitors to fill every rally every weekend.
It is true that some people won't want a rally going past their house, but the experience of the first tamac rally in Essex showed a significant interest by the local population. It is a day out for lots of people that they don't have to go far for and in some cases can watch from their local pub. I have no concerns that tarmac rallying can be successful and welcomed in the UK.
ArnageWRC said:
Closed roads are a solution for rallying, but are not a panacea. The number of events currently held in forests are not going to be transferred to closed roads; there are simply too many for this to happen. That would require local authorities to be on board, and how many can you honestly see are pro motorsport in their area?
In all honesty, closed roads should have happened 25-30 years ago, but as ever, it's happened too late.
I disagree (on the LA front)!In all honesty, closed roads should have happened 25-30 years ago, but as ever, it's happened too late.
I don't know about England, but when the Closed Road Motorsport legislation went for consultation in Scotland, 30 out of the 32 Local Authorities were supportive. To date, that I know of, five of them have been approached to discuss six specific events (not all of which have been announced) and all have been supportive. Of those I have first- or second-hand knowledge of, that support goes way beyond allowing a rally to take place.
The LAs are pro-revenue. If that revenue comes from people visiting to take part in, organise or spectate on a rally, which is being organised and funded by others, they are all for it. I speak from experience.
In England, I can think of Essex, Cornwall, Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Worcestershire, Lancashire, Yorkshire, Hertfordshire and Isle of Wight that have permitted events and some others under discussion.
The challenge is to put on small, clubby events on closed roads to replace the ever-diminishing ex-MOD venues, where you could have a day's motorsport for an entry fee of £200 or so.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
There simply is not enough rally competitors to fill every rally every weekend.
There's aren't enough marshals either, especially given MSUK's increased requirements following the safety review. As we see from this forum, there's not a lot of interest in rallying these days, where will the next generation of marshals (and organisers) come from? Perhaps closed road events will help address this, bringing rallying to people who otherwise would have no idea it existed. Perhaps it's too late though. I don't see much future for forest rallying other than private venues. Had rallying moved with the times in terms of promotion and cars then it'd not be an issue. That many still see a Mk2 Escort as the most exciting thing in rallying tells you everything!
DelicaL400 said:
Had rallying moved with the times in terms of promotion and cars then it'd not be an issue. That many still see a Mk2 Escort as the most exciting thing in rallying tells you everything!
Hmm, exactly! On both counts rallying in the UK is miles behind; one can't but help there's lots of well meaning people involved, but have no idea about promotion. As for the cars, well, where do you start. Just look at the entry for the recent Rallye Mont Blanc; a massive entry of currently homologated cars. The chances of that ever happening in the UK are practically zero.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff