2020 Rallying Thread (WRC, ERC and national rally)
Discussion
I dont think the level of cars is an issue personally, most club rallies in Europe are no different to ours, our historic scene is vastly superior to most other than perhaps Italy and Scandinavia for example.
They might look like Mk2 escorts, but really they are basically F2 Maxi kit cars under that lightweight largely carbon shell.
I was not advocating replacing forests with closed roads, that will happen anyway, famous events will carry their names like the Dukeries etc to new events I hope.
I am more positive, I think closed roads is easily the future, in all honesty in a green minded world can it be right to be ploughing through forests in noisy petrol spewing rally cars? Perhaps not, I would guess wildlife etc is just as much affected by closed roads, but they ARE roads, used daily, whereas a forest track might not be used much through a year other than for forestry work or logging.
The rest of Europe must stare in wonder at our lack of closed roads, as they ALL pretty much use it.
They might look like Mk2 escorts, but really they are basically F2 Maxi kit cars under that lightweight largely carbon shell.
I was not advocating replacing forests with closed roads, that will happen anyway, famous events will carry their names like the Dukeries etc to new events I hope.
I am more positive, I think closed roads is easily the future, in all honesty in a green minded world can it be right to be ploughing through forests in noisy petrol spewing rally cars? Perhaps not, I would guess wildlife etc is just as much affected by closed roads, but they ARE roads, used daily, whereas a forest track might not be used much through a year other than for forestry work or logging.
The rest of Europe must stare in wonder at our lack of closed roads, as they ALL pretty much use it.
LukeBrown66 said:
I am more positive, I think closed roads is easily the future, in all honesty in a green minded world can it be right to be ploughing through forests in noisy petrol spewing rally cars? Perhaps not, I would guess wildlife etc is just as much affected by closed roads, but they ARE roads, used daily, whereas a forest track might not be used much through a year other than for forestry work or logging.
That’s an interesting point - considering there are long periods of no traffic during a closed road rally, there’s probably on average less traffic over the day. What a lot of people seem to object to is the noise and apparent potential for damage. All of which have been shown to be manageable. But objectors tend to describe it as an environmental issue because that grabs attention.
LukeBrown66 said:
I dont think the level of cars is an issue personally, most club rallies in Europe are no different to ours, our historic scene is vastly superior to most other than perhaps Italy and Scandinavia for example.
They might look like Mk2 escorts, but really they are basically F2 Maxi kit cars under that lightweight largely carbon shell.
I think that two of the issues preventing change towards more current cars is the lack of a minimum weight and the lack of restriction on engine swaps. Hence a lightweight older car (eg the ubiquitous Escort) can be fitted with quasi race engine like a Millington and a sequential gearbox and be more competitive than a more modern, heavier car with a similar power output.They might look like Mk2 escorts, but really they are basically F2 Maxi kit cars under that lightweight largely carbon shell.
I think another issue is that there is a gap between the historic scene in the U.K., requiring cars to homologated or adapted homologated specs, and any other rallying where it is basically “formula litre” or “special saloons”. I.e. there is nothing that is the equivalent of many club level race series where there are restrictions on the modifications that can be applied and largely oem engines and gearbox types must be used. As a result the competitor with a Pinto engined Escort with an h pattern box is not competitive and may not bother to come out.
In my view, it is time to modify the class structure and put the “special saloons” in their own class and have other classes that encourage more modern cars out without engine swaps.
I would also like to see separate classes for similar age related cars with OEM engines, a bit like CSCC racing regs. MSVR has decided to have a class for such pre 1980 cars within the 2020/21 Circuit rally championship.
LukeBrown66 said:
I am more positive, I think closed roads is easily the future, in all honesty in a green minded world can it be right to be ploughing through forests in noisy petrol spewing rally cars? Perhaps not, I would guess wildlife etc is just as much affected by closed roads, but they ARE roads, used daily, whereas a forest track might not be used much through a year other than for forestry work or logging.
I am not so confident on the long term success of closed roads for rallying. I have no doubt that several will take place and be very successful but I think that there will be many objections in some areas.I have already heard people say, “we already have race tracks, they should go and play there rather than Mess up my day/ route”. They don’t understand the difference between rallying and racing but that won’t stop them moaning about the disruption. As a (non motorsport) example, last year there was national cycle race and then a triathlon in Norfolk which involved 2 separate days where the roads were closed to allow for several cycle laps of the course - the locals were up in arms about the road closures, bus diversions, having to,plan the times they could get out and about etc.
Bringing rallying to the masses on closed roads may seem like a good thing, but it also has some significant pitfalls and many will not see any benefit, only disruption and environmental hassle.
In all honesty that is woeful and very selfish and ignorant planning form the local council regarding the Norfolk thing, you dont take the micky with locals and people, it is asking for trouble.
I do feel with the right thought that closed roads are obviously rallyings future, if you pick the right areas, right times of year, you would not pick say something 20 miles outside Yarmouth on quiet Norfolk roads in summer, or somewhere near Salisbury when Glastonbury is on etc.
It has to be thought out, planned and a lot of time has to be given trying to even go door to door with locals or at least flyers, post runs to explain, give notice etc.
You will always get complaints, but in my experience the horse usually bolts well before things are done properly in motorsport terms regarding venues. It is usually too little too late.
I do feel with the right thought that closed roads are obviously rallyings future, if you pick the right areas, right times of year, you would not pick say something 20 miles outside Yarmouth on quiet Norfolk roads in summer, or somewhere near Salisbury when Glastonbury is on etc.
It has to be thought out, planned and a lot of time has to be given trying to even go door to door with locals or at least flyers, post runs to explain, give notice etc.
You will always get complaints, but in my experience the horse usually bolts well before things are done properly in motorsport terms regarding venues. It is usually too little too late.
I expect the two cycle races were deliberately organised for consecutive days. Same occurred with the Tour of Yorkshire, there is more than one race and it occurs across a number of days. The last one closed much of Harrogate for a week and ruined the grass on the Stray. I very much doubt it will happen again.
You can loose the good will of the population very quickly and I think the cyclist have lost it for much of Harrogate now.
Rallying has a much harder task than the cyclist too. It’s not PC, it’s not especially popular and it’s not seen as something which is easily entered into either. I really hope it can be made a success but I doubt it will replace the Forests and I’m a bit pessimistic about the future of Rallying in FC forests.
You can loose the good will of the population very quickly and I think the cyclist have lost it for much of Harrogate now.
Rallying has a much harder task than the cyclist too. It’s not PC, it’s not especially popular and it’s not seen as something which is easily entered into either. I really hope it can be made a success but I doubt it will replace the Forests and I’m a bit pessimistic about the future of Rallying in FC forests.
velocemitch said:
I expect the two cycle races were deliberately organised for consecutive days. Same occurred with the Tour of Yorkshire, there is more than one race and it occurs across a number of days. The last one closed much of Harrogate for a week and ruined the grass on the Stray. I very much doubt it will happen again.
You can loose the good will of the population very quickly and I think the cyclist have lost it for much of Harrogate now.
Rallying has a much harder task than the cyclist too. It’s not PC, it’s not especially popular and it’s not seen as something which is easily entered into either. I really hope it can be made a success but I doubt it will replace the Forests and I’m a bit pessimistic about the future of Rallying in FC forests.
The two cycle races were about 2 weeks apart from memory.You can loose the good will of the population very quickly and I think the cyclist have lost it for much of Harrogate now.
Rallying has a much harder task than the cyclist too. It’s not PC, it’s not especially popular and it’s not seen as something which is easily entered into either. I really hope it can be made a success but I doubt it will replace the Forests and I’m a bit pessimistic about the future of Rallying in FC forests.
I agree that rallying has a far harder task than cycling to convince people about the value of closed roads events.
Forestry England has published a consultation exercise about the use of the forests for rallying and given the rallying community just 3 weeks ( I think) to respond. The FE paper particularly wants to know what sustainability initiatives rallying is taking. Unfortunately rallying doesn’t seem to have a national cohesive voice and the sport is struggling to articulate any sustainability benefits that it may be able to bring........
fttm said:
FE consultation closes on Sept 30 iirc so now is the time to have your say .
Closed road events work very well in Europe and Ireland , where the whole rally circus is welcomed into town with an almost festival atmosphere , why would it be so hard in England ?
It's not - there have already been 3 different closed-road rallies in England since the new legislation came in, and were very popular. One more new rally was planned this year (COVID cancelled) and another one or two in the pipeline. I think the bottleneck is more likely the personnel willing and available to organise them. Almost all rallies are organised by volunteers, and the group of volunteers who are willing to do so are ageing.Closed road events work very well in Europe and Ireland , where the whole rally circus is welcomed into town with an almost festival atmosphere , why would it be so hard in England ?
1st rally since the Monte for Loeb. Favourable road position or not, that was impressive yesterday.
Tanak off this morning with steering damage. Didn't seem to hit anything massive before it happened. Shame for him and the championship battle really.
Stage 4 briefly stopped. Spectators sneaking in and stood in a dangerous position
Tanak off this morning with steering damage. Didn't seem to hit anything massive before it happened. Shame for him and the championship battle really.
Stage 4 briefly stopped. Spectators sneaking in and stood in a dangerous position
LukeBrown66 said:
I dont think the level of cars is an issue personally, most club rallies in Europe are no different to ours, our historic scene is vastly superior to most other than perhaps Italy and Scandinavia for example.
They might look like Mk2 escorts, but really they are basically F2 Maxi kit cars under that lightweight largely carbon shell.
But rallying needs to sell itself to those who aren't currently interested in rallying: a new generation of organisers/marshals/competitors and those in charge of land use. These folk won't know what an "F2 Maxi kit car" is, they won't know whether a Mk2 Escort has carbon fibre bits. All they'll see is a car they thought stopped being sold 40 years ago - it hardly gives an impression of a progressive sport that has moved with the times and is willing to adapt to changing society norms. Unfortunately rallying is pretty much entirely resistant to change - look at what happened when Pirelli tried to work with the FC to develop a tyre that did less damage to the roads, look at the reaction if someone suggests using electric cars in rallying. Perhaps the move to more closed road events will help facilitate change but I think there are far too many involved with heads stuck in the sand for it to happen.They might look like Mk2 escorts, but really they are basically F2 Maxi kit cars under that lightweight largely carbon shell.
tardelli said:
GET IN ELYVN 
yes a good result. But with the previous poster's comments about Sardinia being a COVID hotspot, I am going to say that Elfyn will become the 'champion that never was' as if Sardinia is cancelled, and he wins the title that's not enough rounds to be completed to become WRC, So he'll be given the title of FIA Drivers champion or something.Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff