2021 Rallying Thread (WRC, ERC and national rally)
Discussion
Skylinecrazy said:
aeropilot said:
Skylinecrazy said:
Can see Solberg and Rovenpera dominating WRC for the next 15-20 years to be honest.
You seriously think WRC will still be around in 10 years time, let alone in 15-20 years time..??Where do you think it will go?
Go back 20 years, and look were the WRC was. Is it in a better state now than then? Debatable.
Personally, the late 90s/early 2000s were the high point of the WRCar era; lots of manufacturers: Subaru, Mitsubishi, Ford, Toyota, Seat, Skoda, Peugeot, Citroen, Hyundai.....but it was unsustainable, and one by one left - though some returned. 14/16 events with no F1 style pay outs meant it wasn't worth it. The promised riches from better media/TV never happened.
Going into a new era, we'll have (we think) Toyota, Hyundai, plus M-Sport, with some support from Ford.....
ArnageWRC said:
Going into a new era, we'll have (we think) Toyota, Hyundai, plus M-Sport, with some support from Ford.....
And long is this 'new era' for....?With the push to all electric in many markets by end of this decade - how will the sport make the transition to electric?
I don't think rallying as a form of motorsport will survive as we've known it. I suspect this new Extreme E stuff already announced will push what we've known as rallying into extinction ultimately.
We can see what's likely to happen regarding continuing use of forestry commission land in the UK, which will kill it here - even historic stuff. Single venue locations will get ever harder to find as well.
What ever form the WRC takes in the future, it won't be rallying as we know it Jim.....and I think it will be some other form of more electric viable off-road motorsport that will happen, not rallying. Just think of the range/charging issues for a rally as we know it, even a much truncated office hours format we have now.......which is a mere shell of what proper rallying was all about when I were a yoof.
Why can’t WRC use hybridisation with synthetic fuels and Customer based cars? We do not need manufacturers to run multi million pound programmes.
Between 500-1500 R5 cars are sold a year. That is a lot in motorsport land, and enough for manufacturers to keep developing new cars.
There’s no reason the FIA need to chase what manufacturers want, they should be chasing what rallying customers want, and to develop the most competitive championship they can.
Between 500-1500 R5 cars are sold a year. That is a lot in motorsport land, and enough for manufacturers to keep developing new cars.
There’s no reason the FIA need to chase what manufacturers want, they should be chasing what rallying customers want, and to develop the most competitive championship they can.
aeropilot said:
And long is this 'new era' for....?
With the push to all electric in many markets by end of this decade - how will the sport make the transition to electric?
I don't think rallying as a form of motorsport will survive as we've known it. I suspect this new Extreme E stuff already announced will push what we've known as rallying into extinction ultimately.
We can see what's likely to happen regarding continuing use of forestry commission land in the UK, which will kill it here - even historic stuff. Single venue locations will get ever harder to find as well.
What ever form the WRC takes in the future, it won't be rallying as we know it Jim.....and I think it will be some other form of more electric viable off-road motorsport that will happen, not rallying. Just think of the range/charging issues for a rally as we know it, even a much truncated office hours format we have now.......which is a mere shell of what proper rallying was all about when I were a yoof.
Rallying 20-30 years ago was completely overrated IMO. 5 minute gaps between the top few crews and crazy unreliability does not make for a good rally. With the push to all electric in many markets by end of this decade - how will the sport make the transition to electric?
I don't think rallying as a form of motorsport will survive as we've known it. I suspect this new Extreme E stuff already announced will push what we've known as rallying into extinction ultimately.
We can see what's likely to happen regarding continuing use of forestry commission land in the UK, which will kill it here - even historic stuff. Single venue locations will get ever harder to find as well.
What ever form the WRC takes in the future, it won't be rallying as we know it Jim.....and I think it will be some other form of more electric viable off-road motorsport that will happen, not rallying. Just think of the range/charging issues for a rally as we know it, even a much truncated office hours format we have now.......which is a mere shell of what proper rallying was all about when I were a yoof.
Shorter events with small gaps is what makes it exciting imo.
Skylinecrazy said:
aeropilot said:
And long is this 'new era' for....?
With the push to all electric in many markets by end of this decade - how will the sport make the transition to electric?
I don't think rallying as a form of motorsport will survive as we've known it. I suspect this new Extreme E stuff already announced will push what we've known as rallying into extinction ultimately.
We can see what's likely to happen regarding continuing use of forestry commission land in the UK, which will kill it here - even historic stuff. Single venue locations will get ever harder to find as well.
What ever form the WRC takes in the future, it won't be rallying as we know it Jim.....and I think it will be some other form of more electric viable off-road motorsport that will happen, not rallying. Just think of the range/charging issues for a rally as we know it, even a much truncated office hours format we have now.......which is a mere shell of what proper rallying was all about when I were a yoof.
Rallying 20-30 years ago was completely overrated IMO. 5 minute gaps between the top few crews and crazy unreliability does not make for a good rally. With the push to all electric in many markets by end of this decade - how will the sport make the transition to electric?
I don't think rallying as a form of motorsport will survive as we've known it. I suspect this new Extreme E stuff already announced will push what we've known as rallying into extinction ultimately.
We can see what's likely to happen regarding continuing use of forestry commission land in the UK, which will kill it here - even historic stuff. Single venue locations will get ever harder to find as well.
What ever form the WRC takes in the future, it won't be rallying as we know it Jim.....and I think it will be some other form of more electric viable off-road motorsport that will happen, not rallying. Just think of the range/charging issues for a rally as we know it, even a much truncated office hours format we have now.......which is a mere shell of what proper rallying was all about when I were a yoof.
Shorter events with small gaps is what makes it exciting imo.
I think that the previous poster has a very grim image of the future of rallying as he project the uk scene to the world. I am from France and rallying is huge. We have so many races all over France with so many crews. Same for Scandinavian countries. Wait for the UK to have a champion and suddenly every body over here will tell you that GB is the home of rallying and fans will be be all over the stages! Lol
WRC has a future, maybe not in the UK but in New countries definitely yes.
Rallying lot's its true meaning about 30 years ago when stage mileage was cut drastically, less night stages, more rest time.
It used to be a true test of endurance for man machine. No notes, 4 or 5 days, all weathers, limited service. Then all the crap happened and it changed.
What that gave us instead is sprint rallying, which is really what we have now, there were numerous golden ages, the 70's and 80's. The latter part of GpA, the early WRC era. But basically since Loeb, the series lost a lot of interest, it became boringly predictable, and then Ogier did the same with VW and the cycle continued.
First year of new WRC was great, but since then it is a two car show with two people trying to outspend each other, boring.
It used to be a true test of endurance for man machine. No notes, 4 or 5 days, all weathers, limited service. Then all the crap happened and it changed.
What that gave us instead is sprint rallying, which is really what we have now, there were numerous golden ages, the 70's and 80's. The latter part of GpA, the early WRC era. But basically since Loeb, the series lost a lot of interest, it became boringly predictable, and then Ogier did the same with VW and the cycle continued.
First year of new WRC was great, but since then it is a two car show with two people trying to outspend each other, boring.
LukeBrown66 said:
Rallying lot's its true meaning about 30 years ago when stage mileage was cut drastically, less night stages, more rest time.
It used to be a true test of endurance for man machine. No notes, 4 or 5 days, all weathers, limited service. Then all the crap happened and it changed.
What that gave us instead is sprint rallying, which is really what we have now, there were numerous golden ages, the 70's and 80's. The latter part of GpA, the early WRC era. But basically since Loeb, the series lost a lot of interest, it became boringly predictable, and then Ogier did the same with VW and the cycle continued.
First year of new WRC was great, but since then it is a two car show with two people trying to outspend each other, boring.
Since when was the true definition of rallying defined by stage mileage and rest time?!? It used to be a true test of endurance for man machine. No notes, 4 or 5 days, all weathers, limited service. Then all the crap happened and it changed.
What that gave us instead is sprint rallying, which is really what we have now, there were numerous golden ages, the 70's and 80's. The latter part of GpA, the early WRC era. But basically since Loeb, the series lost a lot of interest, it became boringly predictable, and then Ogier did the same with VW and the cycle continued.
First year of new WRC was great, but since then it is a two car show with two people trying to outspend each other, boring.
Have you seen the new cars in person?
Pretty much every sport has had eras which are dominated by individuals. Loeb was a genius, and if you followed his career or saw him at events I fail to see how instead of being bored, you should have been in awe.
I presume you found the Paris Dakar an edge of the seat thrill fest?? Because that’s what old rallying was similar to, but with a 50% attrition rate.
As said above, rallying is huge in mainland Europe, Australia, South America etc. Just because Blighty doesn’t have a round anymore, doesn’t mean the WRC is about to disappear.
I think you totally misunderstand what old rallying is all about. Probably an age thing.
I have seen the modern cars yes, and they are fast, but look awful. I take nothing away from the drivers, they are the top level in terms of talent.
Loeb bored most people, if you like seeing the same bloke win everything, fair enough, it bored me to tears and the viewing figures did not lie everyone went away from WRC.
As for Dakar, it is a totally different type of event, it is based on navigation far more than speed.
Rallying has always been about both, but if you think 3 day events that have the same service park, stages run twice and three times, stages that can be totally learned and run like circuits is the best thing since sliced bread, fair enough.
A rally to me is at its best with maps, no practice. Our event should be a PROPER Rally GB, not a few runs over the same 10 stages in bloody Wales.
And if you ask the teams and drivers they would want that too, it is the FIA and rulemakers that dont, to make it cheaper lol! Have you seen a modern WRC team FFS/
I have seen the modern cars yes, and they are fast, but look awful. I take nothing away from the drivers, they are the top level in terms of talent.
Loeb bored most people, if you like seeing the same bloke win everything, fair enough, it bored me to tears and the viewing figures did not lie everyone went away from WRC.
As for Dakar, it is a totally different type of event, it is based on navigation far more than speed.
Rallying has always been about both, but if you think 3 day events that have the same service park, stages run twice and three times, stages that can be totally learned and run like circuits is the best thing since sliced bread, fair enough.
A rally to me is at its best with maps, no practice. Our event should be a PROPER Rally GB, not a few runs over the same 10 stages in bloody Wales.
And if you ask the teams and drivers they would want that too, it is the FIA and rulemakers that dont, to make it cheaper lol! Have you seen a modern WRC team FFS/
LukeBrown66 said:
And if you ask the teams and drivers they would want that too, it is the FIA and rulemakers that don't, to make it cheaper lol! Have you seen a modern WRC team FFS/
To be honest, I'm not sure about that anymore; I think they're just as bad. Makinen complained about the length of RallyGB in either 2018/19. I agree about costs though - they moan all the time, but spend silly money on service parks structures, etc Cost is only an issue if there's no value.....and the evidence suggests there isn't a lot in the WRC; hence the 2.5 manufacturers.
Maybe because I remember the old days too fondly but WRC leaves me cold , too much technology nowadays and the cars look like they're on rails , not for one minute do I dispute the talent of the drivers . The daily stage mileage , compact running hours , plus service areas as opposed to a van on the side of the road don't appeal .
Give me the Irish one/two day format , where the crews have a crack , all sorts of machinery allowed , and if you can ignore the R5 cars is still bloody good fun and VFM .
Give me the Irish one/two day format , where the crews have a crack , all sorts of machinery allowed , and if you can ignore the R5 cars is still bloody good fun and VFM .
fttm said:
Maybe because I remember the old days too fondly but WRC leaves me cold , too much technology nowadays and the cars look like they're on rails , not for one minute do I dispute the talent of the drivers . The daily stage mileage , compact running hours , plus service areas as opposed to a van on the side of the road don't appeal .
Give me the Irish one/two day format , where the crews have a crack , all sorts of machinery allowed , and if you can ignore the R5 cars is still bloody good fun and VFM .
and us standing on drystone walls watching it?? Give me the Irish one/two day format , where the crews have a crack , all sorts of machinery allowed , and if you can ignore the R5 cars is still bloody good fun and VFM .
Edited by rastapasta on Thursday 18th February 09:27
fttm said:
Maybe because I remember the old days too fondly but WRC leaves me cold , too much technology nowadays and the cars look like they're on rails , not for one minute do I dispute the talent of the drivers . The daily stage mileage , compact running hours , plus service areas as opposed to a van on the side of the road don't appeal .
Give me the Irish one/two day format , where the crews have a crack , all sorts of machinery allowed , and if you can ignore the R5 cars is still bloody good fun and VFM .
Tbh there is no value for money in Irish rallying (I assumed that's what you mean by VFM?)Give me the Irish one/two day format , where the crews have a crack , all sorts of machinery allowed , and if you can ignore the R5 cars is still bloody good fun and VFM .
My local rally is the Galway International and the Galway Summer rally. The International was +1000 euro to enter for around 120 KM of competitive running, but I think it was more 100 due to lack of marshals on one of the stages.
The summer rally was around 800 for the day and around the same running at 100 KM. Insurance is killing rallying in Ireland. We are in a very very bad way, the rumour was about 2/3 years ago we were one big accident away from the end of rallying in the country. When I say rumour, it was all but confirmed in a press release. They ran a fundraiser to contribute to a motorsport fund, the idea being that in the event of the next big accident, there was already a purse there to try and offset the cost, and hopefully save the sport. If you don't run a garage or an engineering firm, it's quite hard to even get into rallying here. I want to but have kept it to competing in hillclimbs and rallysprints as they represent a more cost effective day out
aeropilot said:
We can see what's likely to happen regarding continuing use of forestry commission land in the UK, which will kill it here - even historic stuff. Single venue locations will get ever harder to find as well.
You have missed closed roads, the events that ran before C-19 were all well received, a few local objectors (appalling tactics deployed by a few in one area) were outnumbered by the vast majority who welcomed the events and plans were well underway for bigger and a few additional events for last year and this. No (non C-19) reason why this should not continue next year.I acknowledge that they are not a cheap options as a few thought they might be but based on feedback from people I know who competed on them, getting to the start line was the same sort of cost as BTRDA but running costs and wear and tear on the car much lower. Road conditions not like driving through a quarry for the later runners as well (which is a big negative in the woods)
Mfm
I agree, closed roads is our future for rallying.
I am not a green thinking person but there does seem something a bit wrong in a car belching fuel and fumes around a forest.
I know in the grand scheme of things it's not that bad, but a bit like diesel tractor pulling, I mean cmon lol!
I agree, closed roads is our future for rallying.
I am not a green thinking person but there does seem something a bit wrong in a car belching fuel and fumes around a forest.
I know in the grand scheme of things it's not that bad, but a bit like diesel tractor pulling, I mean cmon lol!
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