Racing Classics?
Discussion
Getting into Goodwood isn’t everything to me at all. Would just like to be involved in something that could potentially lead to that. Like U2TC, formula junior. For example formula junior alternates with F3 at the members meeting the. Rotates between the disk brakes cars, drum brakes and front engines from my understanding. So by my terrible plotting with decent car performing decently well there is the potential to get an invite.
Cooper 500 are another example they get a slot every 4 years most of the time.
I do fancy the motor racing legends series but don’t know much about it. My intention is kind of pick one and do all the events and that’s it. I would love to be racing every weekend of the year but there is one thing more expensive than racing and that’s a divorce.
I hope I’m not too crazy. I apologise if I seem a bit to keen to jump in at the deep end but I have quite unique home life. That puts me in the position where I don’t know what the future holds and I don’t know how long I will be able to do this for.
I am taking all your advice on board and will be researching all the series that have been suggested.
Cooper 500 are another example they get a slot every 4 years most of the time.
I do fancy the motor racing legends series but don’t know much about it. My intention is kind of pick one and do all the events and that’s it. I would love to be racing every weekend of the year but there is one thing more expensive than racing and that’s a divorce.
I hope I’m not too crazy. I apologise if I seem a bit to keen to jump in at the deep end but I have quite unique home life. That puts me in the position where I don’t know what the future holds and I don’t know how long I will be able to do this for.
I am taking all your advice on board and will be researching all the series that have been suggested.
ntiz said:
Getting into Goodwood isn’t everything to me at all. Would just like to be involved in something that could potentially lead to that. Like U2TC, formula junior. For example formula junior alternates with F3 at the members meeting the. Rotates between the disk brakes cars, drum brakes and front engines from my understanding. So by my terrible plotting with decent car performing decently well there is the potential to get an invite.
Cooper 500 are another example they get a slot every 4 years most of the time.
I do fancy the motor racing legends series but don’t know much about it. My intention is kind of pick one and do all the events and that’s it. I would love to be racing every weekend of the year but there is one thing more expensive than racing and that’s a divorce.
I hope I’m not too crazy. I apologise if I seem a bit to keen to jump in at the deep end but I have quite unique home life. That puts me in the position where I don’t know what the future holds and I don’t know how long I will be able to do this for.
I am taking all your advice on board and will be researching all the series that have been suggested.
haha dont seem crazy at all, you dont know until you ask. hopefully when you can get out to circuits once covid is over you can chat to some drivers Cooper 500 are another example they get a slot every 4 years most of the time.
I do fancy the motor racing legends series but don’t know much about it. My intention is kind of pick one and do all the events and that’s it. I would love to be racing every weekend of the year but there is one thing more expensive than racing and that’s a divorce.
I hope I’m not too crazy. I apologise if I seem a bit to keen to jump in at the deep end but I have quite unique home life. That puts me in the position where I don’t know what the future holds and I don’t know how long I will be able to do this for.
I am taking all your advice on board and will be researching all the series that have been suggested.
I've raced in something called Sports 2000 (on and off) for the past 10-12 years. This was originally a series in the 80s that has hosted a wealth of famous names in their route to higher formulas and they're based on a more affordable version of the Group 6 two-litre sports cars. They share a lot of DNA with the old Formula Fords and you'll recognise a lot of the manufacturers like Lola, Tiga, Royale, March etc.
This is generally split into 2 groups - Pinto (for 2 litres Pinto cars, generally from the 80s) and Duratec (for the more modern cars with more power/aero). Surprisingly quick and a lot of bang for buck. I've raced at all the top UK circuits (and layouts) including at Spa for the Summer Classic (although they've also been to Hockenheim (Jim Clark Revival), LeMans, Zandvoort and a host of others).
Last year I should have been out at the Oulton Gold Cup and Silverstone Classic but Covid and a new baby saw to that....
The best piece of advice I ever had about buying a car was - "Do you want a road car that's been converted, or a ground up designed and built racing car?". That helped define the route I went down. Me and my dad work on my car and whilst it's a bit of a learning curve in parts around setup, gearing etc. they are reasonably easy to work on and we've often taken the engine out, changed gearboxes (and ratios) and so on. I won my class a few years back which was a nice reward.
The cars can be had for under 20k and they also have a Historic class which means you're eligible for all sorts of other events. A lot of people run their cars for under £10k a year although you can obviously spend an insane amount if you wish. If running yourself, consider the costs of all the peripherals such as trailers, tow cars, accommodation, tooling / jacks and so on. That can add up quite quickly into 5 figure sums although if like me, you'll probably have a lot of that already.
Well worth considering in my opinion. Happy to talk more if needed. Some bad photos below...
This is generally split into 2 groups - Pinto (for 2 litres Pinto cars, generally from the 80s) and Duratec (for the more modern cars with more power/aero). Surprisingly quick and a lot of bang for buck. I've raced at all the top UK circuits (and layouts) including at Spa for the Summer Classic (although they've also been to Hockenheim (Jim Clark Revival), LeMans, Zandvoort and a host of others).
Last year I should have been out at the Oulton Gold Cup and Silverstone Classic but Covid and a new baby saw to that....
The best piece of advice I ever had about buying a car was - "Do you want a road car that's been converted, or a ground up designed and built racing car?". That helped define the route I went down. Me and my dad work on my car and whilst it's a bit of a learning curve in parts around setup, gearing etc. they are reasonably easy to work on and we've often taken the engine out, changed gearboxes (and ratios) and so on. I won my class a few years back which was a nice reward.
The cars can be had for under 20k and they also have a Historic class which means you're eligible for all sorts of other events. A lot of people run their cars for under £10k a year although you can obviously spend an insane amount if you wish. If running yourself, consider the costs of all the peripherals such as trailers, tow cars, accommodation, tooling / jacks and so on. That can add up quite quickly into 5 figure sums although if like me, you'll probably have a lot of that already.
Well worth considering in my opinion. Happy to talk more if needed. Some bad photos below...
Total loss said:
pablo said:
The thing about historic racing now is the fact that in some races, at least 25% of the grid didnt exist in period and are continuation chassis or new builds granted HTPs so whilst it’s true to say events like Goodwood are invite only, you don’t need a car with period history or driver association to get an invite. At the 77 MM I know of at least four Mini Coopers in the Richmond race which were fresh cars, the Datalink Fiesta was a new build and several others in that touring car race were too.
I think at least 50% of the grids are new build, could even be 75%. Even many of the famous/rare/very very expensive race cars you see at Goodwood are new build clones, the owners having the real historic car safely tucked away back home.New build cars are not a problem IF you already race at Goodwood or have contacts, the Data link Fiesta was entered by a well known team who have raced lots of cars there. Minis at the 77mm was a featured special one make race, so relatively to get an entry.
pablo said:
Someone else has said this recently and it’s just not true. You can’t build a replica or clone an existing car and race it whiilst keeping the original, two cars bearing the same chassis number can’t exist. As I’ve said there are a few 250SWBs that were previously 250GTEs as an example but I don’t know of any historic car racing today that is a clone (ie bearing the same chassis number etc) of a car the owner has in storage.
I am not talking of GTE to GTO conversations, I am talking of clones that do exist & is true as much as you say they can't. How do I know? I have worked on 2 of them when they were being built, 1 of them belonging to a very very famous owner, the other being 1 of only a few originally built very famous race cars.
And I know of quite a few more.
Total loss said:
pablo said:
Someone else has said this recently and it’s just not true. You can’t build a replica or clone an existing car and race it whiilst keeping the original, two cars bearing the same chassis number can’t exist. As I’ve said there are a few 250SWBs that were previously 250GTEs as an example but I don’t know of any historic car racing today that is a clone (ie bearing the same chassis number etc) of a car the owner has in storage.
I am not talking of GTE to GTO conversations, I am talking of clones that do exist & is true as much as you say they can't. How do I know? I have worked on 2 of them when they were being built, 1 of them belonging to a very very famous owner, the other being 1 of only a few originally built very famous race cars.
And I know of quite a few more.
Notshortnottall said:
I’ve raced in something called Sports 2000 (on and off) for the past 10-12 years.
The best piece of advice I ever had about buying a car was - "Do you want a road car that's been converted, or a ground up designed and built racing car?". That helped define the route I went down. Me and my dad work on my car and whilst it's a bit of a learning curve in parts around setup, gearing etc. they are reasonably easy to work on and we've often taken the engine out, changed gearboxes (and ratios) and so on. I won my class a few years back which was a nice reward.
The cars can be had for under 20k and they also have a Historic class which means you're eligible for all sorts of other events. A lot of people run their cars for under £10k a year although you can obviously spend an insane amount if you wish. If running yourself, consider the costs of all the peripherals such as trailers, tow cars, accommodation, tooling / jacks and so on. That can add up quite quickly into 5 figure sums although if like me, you'll probably have a lot of that already.
I really like Sports 2000s, and someone mentioned the sister Formula Ford 2000 single seaters too. Great cars and the OP could easily buy one of each for his proposed budget and get in to some really nice meetings whilst sharing spares etc!!!The best piece of advice I ever had about buying a car was - "Do you want a road car that's been converted, or a ground up designed and built racing car?". That helped define the route I went down. Me and my dad work on my car and whilst it's a bit of a learning curve in parts around setup, gearing etc. they are reasonably easy to work on and we've often taken the engine out, changed gearboxes (and ratios) and so on. I won my class a few years back which was a nice reward.
The cars can be had for under 20k and they also have a Historic class which means you're eligible for all sorts of other events. A lot of people run their cars for under £10k a year although you can obviously spend an insane amount if you wish. If running yourself, consider the costs of all the peripherals such as trailers, tow cars, accommodation, tooling / jacks and so on. That can add up quite quickly into 5 figure sums although if like me, you'll probably have a lot of that already.
I understand the advice about buying a car designed to race rather than one designed for the road, I tried Monoposto first of all in a Vauxhall Junior, and that was great value and performance for money but the trouble was I was hopeless in a rear engined single seater!
I raced hatchbacks and Porsche 924/44s after that and that suited me better but now race a Caterham. A sort of classic car, in looks anyway!!
To be honest I wish I had started out in Caterhams as they are awesome fun and great value to race, and a sort of half way house between a car designed to race and a road car, probably leaning more towards the race car! They may not race at Goodwood but I would not dismiss them as great tools for the track and they often race in massively competitive series - you will learn a lot of race craft and the cars are relatively easy to look after.
ntiz said:
I do fancy the motor racing legends series but don’t know much about it. My intention is kind of pick one and do all the events and that’s it. I would love to be racing every weekend of the year but there is one thing more expensive than racing and that’s a divorce.
.
I've been racing for nearly 40 years and in that time I have had 2 divorces, racing most definitely cost me more!.
The best advice that I could give you is that when you select the championship or series you wish to race in is to buy the winning car off the champion at seasons end.
Edited by Seamus54 on Thursday 4th February 17:42
Seamus54 said:
I've been racing for nearly 40 years and in that time I have had 2 divorces, racing most definitely cost me more!
The best advice that I could give you is that when you select the championship or series you wish to race in is to buy the winning car off the champion at seasons end.
Well that’s fThe best advice that I could give you is that when you select the championship or series you wish to race in is to buy the winning car off the champion at seasons end.
Edited by Seamus54 on Thursday 4th February 17:42
king terrifying I have been given Similar advice before. Apparently it’s much cheaper to buy a race winning car than building or in the long run?
ntiz said:
Well that’s fking terrifying
I have been given Similar advice before. Apparently it’s much cheaper to buy a race winning car than building or in the long run?
Correct! It’s much cheaper to buy a winning car than develop it from scratch by a long way!king terrifying I have been given Similar advice before. Apparently it’s much cheaper to buy a race winning car than building or in the long run?
Don’t let that scare you though....while championship winning cars fetch a higher price, it’s not by that much.
The joy of historic racing is the variety in cars, you will ALWAYS find someone to battle with on track. Take the CSCC Swinging Sixties for example....there’s probably 20 seconds a lap between the fastest and slowest cars with several classes within the race, if you can’t have a laugh with someone on track there’s something wrong with you!
Sometimes it’s better to buy a ‘starter’ car, learn the ropes, enjoy the racing mid pack, make connections within the series and then when the time is right buy a top car. There’s not a lot of point in buying a championship winning car if your talent doesn’t match it.
Sometimes if you buy a championship winning car straight away you either put too much pressure on yourself or crash it and ruin a great car.
Just as an example, I used to race karts. I was competitive at club level in an average kart, had my local builder do the engines, I won a few races so thought I’d go all in and bought a British gp winning kart and engines. It cost a fortune, and only gave me a couple of tenths on track.
Was the kart better? Sure.....was the previous owner the one making the biggest difference? Most definitely!
Buying a championship winning car doesn’t garentee success! It just means you spend less developing a midfield car....as I said above though, if you go into it with the mentality of having a starter car to find you feet and enjoy, knowing full well you’ll sell it when the time is right then it’s not a problem
Edited by WickerBill on Thursday 4th February 19:02
Edited by WickerBill on Thursday 4th February 19:04
pablo said:
Someone else has said this recently and it’s just not true. You can’t build a replica or clone an existing car and race it whiilst keeping the original, two cars bearing the same chassis number can’t exist. As I’ve said there are a few 250SWBs that were previously 250GTEs as an example but I don’t know of any historic car racing today that is a clone (ie bearing the same chassis number etc) of a car the owner has in storage.
Of course they can! This is extremely naive of you. What you doubtless mean to say is that you should not build a ground-up recreation of your priceless car, complete with faux ID, and race that whilst secreting the original car away under a cover in your garage. Shouldnt, but do.I know for certain that there two GT40s with the same chassis number (ie the 'same car') and the FIA didnt have a problem with that, despite the second car being built around a piece of tube with a number stamped into it!
WickerBill said:
Was the kart better? Sure.....was the previous owner the one making the biggest difference? Most definitely!
Buying a championship winning car doesn’t garentee success! It just means you spend less developing a midfield car....as I said above though, if you go into it with the mentality of having a starter car to find you feet and enjoy, knowing full well you’ll sell it when the time is right then it’s not a problem
I probably need a bit of change of mentality, i was brought up to hold out for what you really want then keep it. My Dad has owned all his cars for over 10 years.Buying a championship winning car doesn’t garentee success! It just means you spend less developing a midfield car....as I said above though, if you go into it with the mentality of having a starter car to find you feet and enjoy, knowing full well you’ll sell it when the time is right then it’s not a problem
Edited by WickerBill on Thursday 4th February 19:02
I’m not used to the idea of buying a car as a stepping stone but I guess it’s not really about the car it’s about the racing. So a bit different.
I share an MGA with the owner in the CSCC Swinging Sixties and whilst it is a great series with a lot of variety I wouldn't recommend it for a novice. Last season nearly every race was over subscribed, both Thruxton and Snetterton had 40 strarters and several reserves and it was a nightmare finding space in qualifying, not a good place for beginners in my opinion.
WickerBill said:
The joy of historic racing is the variety in cars, you will ALWAYS find someone to battle with on track. Take the CSCC Swinging Sixties for example....there’s probably 20 seconds a lap between the fastest and slowest cars with several classes within the race, if you can’t have a laugh with someone on track there’s something wrong with you!
Sometimes it’s better to buy a ‘starter’ car, learn the ropes, enjoy the racing mid pack, make connections within the series and then when the time is right buy a top car. There’s not a lot of point in buying a championship winning car if your talent doesn’t match it.
Sometimes if you buy a championship winning car straight away you either put too much pressure on yourself or crash it and ruin a great car.
Just as an example, I used to race karts. I was competitive at club level in an average kart, had my local builder do the engines, I won a few races so thought I’d go all in and bought a British gp winning kart and engines. It cost a fortune, and only gave me a couple of tenths on track.
Was the kart better? Sure.....was the previous owner the one making the biggest difference? Most definitely!
Buying a championship winning car doesn’t garentee success! It just means you spend less developing a midfield car....as I said above though, if you go into it with the mentality of having a starter car to find you feet and enjoy, knowing full well you’ll sell it when the time is right then it’s not a problem
Sometimes it’s better to buy a ‘starter’ car, learn the ropes, enjoy the racing mid pack, make connections within the series and then when the time is right buy a top car. There’s not a lot of point in buying a championship winning car if your talent doesn’t match it.
Sometimes if you buy a championship winning car straight away you either put too much pressure on yourself or crash it and ruin a great car.
Just as an example, I used to race karts. I was competitive at club level in an average kart, had my local builder do the engines, I won a few races so thought I’d go all in and bought a British gp winning kart and engines. It cost a fortune, and only gave me a couple of tenths on track.
Was the kart better? Sure.....was the previous owner the one making the biggest difference? Most definitely!
Buying a championship winning car doesn’t garentee success! It just means you spend less developing a midfield car....as I said above though, if you go into it with the mentality of having a starter car to find you feet and enjoy, knowing full well you’ll sell it when the time is right then it’s not a problem
Edited by WickerBill on Thursday 4th February 19:02
Edited by WickerBill on Thursday 4th February 19:04
ntiz said:
I have been given Similar advice before. Apparently it’s much cheaper to buy a race winning car than building or in the long run?
More than that, actual car manufacturer, model and year selection is critically important in historic series, particularly in something like Formula Junior. The majority of the cars on the grid wouldn’t have a chance of a class win even if impeccably developed and with the best driver. Even in historic formula ford where the cars all have the same engine and only span a 5 year period, there are some chassis which are no hopers in terms of podiums and wins.
ntiz said:
I probably need a bit of change of mentality, i was brought up to hold out for what you really want then keep it. My Dad has owned all his cars for over 10 years.
I’m not used to the idea of buying a car as a stepping stone but I guess it’s not really about the car it’s about the racing. So a bit different.
An admirable attitude, and so often the right one.....I’m not used to the idea of buying a car as a stepping stone but I guess it’s not really about the car it’s about the racing. So a bit different.
....id counter that with sometimes its best to know what rabbit hole you're going down before finding yourself balls deep!
i suppose youll find all this out though once you start your ARDS course, there are so many unknowns on what youd like, what level youre at etc, that until youve started that process, you wont be able to work out in your own mind.
I know a number of novice drivers who've bought the championship winning car and then were disappointed when they were miles off the pace. These cars had often been developed over several seasons to suit a particular drivers preferences. That driver is usually experienced and skilled, and the car is often edgy. The car would probably need that edginess dialling out of it to make it more benign, and then as the driver progresses and gains confidence, they can try some of the setups that won a different driver a championship.
HustleRussell said:
More than that, actual car manufacturer, model and year selection is critically important in historic series, particularly in something like Formula Junior. The majority of the cars on the grid wouldn’t have a chance of a class win even if impeccably developed and with the best driver.
Even in historic formula ford where the cars all have the same engine and only span a 5 year period, there are some chassis which are no hopers in terms of podiums and wins.
More great advice, I can't comment on single seaters, but don't doubt it as it applies to any race car, the difference between a good car & a great car can be such a small amount.Even in historic formula ford where the cars all have the same engine and only span a 5 year period, there are some chassis which are no hopers in terms of podiums and wins.
Oh, and another thing is cheating......, don't think it doesn't go on, motorsport is very very competitive in every single class, so unfortunately it does.
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