Extreme-e electric off road championship

Extreme-e electric off road championship

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Discussion

Flamma

25 posts

40 months

Sunday 4th April
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As an advert for electric propulsion it works much better than FE, instead of highlighting what the cars can't do I was amazed at just how much they could do (although I'm not sure how many batteries they were carrying).. but the format was way too complicated and they just had to add gimmicks like FE. Racing was rubbish with the sand..

Oh and that boat... They repeatedly informed us the fuel was super clean, whilst avoiding the obvious - for now diesel is still the only viable solution for that kind of transport...

rscott

11,718 posts

155 months

Sunday 4th April
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Flamma said:
As an advert for electric propulsion it works much better than FE, instead of highlighting what the cars can't do I was amazed at just how much they could do (although I'm not sure how many batteries they were carrying).. but the format was way too complicated and they just had to add gimmicks like FE. Racing was rubbish with the sand..

Oh and that boat... They repeatedly informed us the fuel was super clean, whilst avoiding the obvious - for now diesel is still the only viable solution for that kind of transport...
The St Helena runs on low sulphur marine diesel and cruises at the optimal speed for fuel economy/emissions - it was covered in one of the many features in the build up to the race.
It does say "not electric .... Yet" on the side of the ship, so I guess they know it's not the best solution, environmentally.


They changed the format earlier this week, reducing the number of cars in each race, because of the dust. That wasn't an issue in their test event earlier in the year -
https://www.autosport.com/extreme-e/news/extreme-e...

rscott

11,718 posts

155 months

Sunday 4th April
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LukeBrown66 said:
With regard to climate emergency, I would prefer to take my points from scientists and Sir David who make more impact in a few seconds than some woman who no-one has heard of who is being paid to do the same.

Frankly I would have more sympathy for this if it was a bit more interesting to watch, all I saw was dust clouds, cars making no noise, lots of people being paid to talk about it and a load of ex rallycross drivers making a fortune, just like when FE started and all out of work single seater men went for a happy retirement.

These things will always be a side show, always. Nothing compares to proper motorsport, and when this takes over most real fans will move on, it's that simple, its like comparing the TT to cycling or WRC to Red Bull flugtag or the like, it's a nonsense.
Did you actually see who "some woman" was? https://www.zoo.ox.ac.uk/people/dr-lucy-woodall#/ - Senior Research Fellow, Department of Zoology, Oxford University.
I'd say that's pretty much the textbook definition of a scientist?


The rest of their scientific committee seem reasonably well qualified too? https://www.extreme-e.com/en/news/91_Extreme-E-unv...

mdewell

1 posts

18 months

Monday 5th April
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Hearing the commentary for the new Extreme E race describe it as a 'endurance racing' had me laughing! It was 2 five mile laps! Driving 10 miles in a car hasn't be an endurance event since the 1800's. Is this cutting edge technology not capable of going further than 10 miles on a single charge!

As for the racing, the final was just 3 cars and by the end of the first lap, there was a 30second gap between 1st and 2nd, and the same from 2nd to 3rd. Not exactly close racing (bearing in mind the lap time is only a little over 5 mins.


Edited by mdewell on Monday 5th April 10:50

//j17

3,679 posts

187 months

Monday 5th April
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ben5575 said:
Yeah it's a shame it worked out the way it did.

It did show that the lack of a designated track allowed people to take completely different lines to get to the gates which adds something unique compared to other events.
Actually for me it was the fact they DID have a designated track that made the multi-car races such a farce. It starts out so well - here's a huge open expanse of desert, where we could just put a start/finish gate and single turn point and just go "Get from here, to there, and back again, using any route you like". Loads of space and if you end up behind someone on your preferred route you can roll the dice on another, dust-free alternative.

But no, let's set a series of really narrow gates in really narrow, specific locations instead, so all cars have to follow the same route give or take 5m left/right. Oh, and then let's have a huge drop (fine) - but put a narrow gate at the bottom, right next to a chuffing great wall of rock, you know so if you're behind someone you basically have to stop and wait or risk a 80% chance of driving into the rock at 100kph.

For me they should have had multiple 'circuits' designed in the same area and used different ones for each session, with teams only being given the next sessions circuit plan after the pervious session completes, so only able to walk/drive the course in normal 4x4s.

Edited by //j17 on Monday 5th April 11:07

Driver101

9,482 posts

85 months

Monday 5th April
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The BBC article is pushing that the women are as fast as the men. I tried finding the lap times and can't see them anywhere.

LukeBrown66

658 posts

10 months

Monday 5th April
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BBC would do that, they probably said we will cover it if you put a woman in the car aswell, so ashamed are they of what happened in their company for decades, if you listen to any BBC news or their web they are trying to force women's sport into every nook and cranny.

Fair enough, but really it has to happen organically and the Beeb are trying to ram it down everyone's throat.

Back to this odd sport, I get why it might appear interesting, but it needs to be proper off road, not a bit of sand racing, that proves nothing and looks awful as a global footprint, especially when you spend a lot of time lauding yourselves as being amazing.

Just fees very forced, false and pretentious, hence the people involved.

Kawasicki

9,007 posts

199 months

Monday 5th April
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Carbon offsets are great. You can do what you like, just need to have the money to offset it.

It’s the poor people who can’t offset their lifestyles that need to be monitored/controlled. Their lifestyles aren’t sustainable, plus there are too many of them.

I can say all this, as I offset my lifestyle. I’m good. I’m just trying to spread awareness of the emergency.

egomeister

5,605 posts

227 months

Monday 5th April
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Driver101 said:
The BBC article is pushing that the women are as fast as the men. I tried finding the lap times and can't see them anywhere.
The first part of that article is hilarious:

"For a climate-aware racing series which promised so much, Extreme E was never going to solve the world's environmental woes in one dusty weekend in the Saudi desert.

But the new series' other unique offering did deliver a sign of a new world order emerging - one which has needed addressing for some time: men and women racing equal machinery on as level a playing field as possible. "


Motorsport is one of the few sports that hasn't traditionally had gender separation! It'd be hard to pick a worse example of lack of opportunity to compete as equals.

rscott

11,718 posts

155 months

Monday 5th April
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LukeBrown66 said:
BBC would do that, they probably said we will cover it if you put a woman in the car aswell, so ashamed are they of what happened in their company for decades, if you listen to any BBC news or their web they are trying to force women's sport into every nook and cranny.

Fair enough, but really it has to happen organically and the Beeb are trying to ram it down everyone's throat.

Back to this odd sport, I get why it might appear interesting, but it needs to be proper off road, not a bit of sand racing, that proves nothing and looks awful as a global footprint, especially when you spend a lot of time lauding yourselves as being amazing.

Just fees very forced, false and pretentious, hence the people involved.
Each of the 5 races are on very different surfaces, so there shouldn't be the dust problem next time.


Rob Dance

200 posts

203 months

Monday 5th April
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Driver101 said:
The BBC article is pushing that the women are as fast as the men. I tried finding the lap times and can't see them anywhere.
A destinct lack of any meaninful timing information - even the comentators were confused .
I suspect the numbers would show a huge disparity between drivers - something the promoters and MSM would not want us to see......

kalexan273

32 posts

79 months

Monday 5th April
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My take, an interesting format, though they have the opportunity to do something more unique instead of circuit based racing, for example they had a desert expanse and could have created multiple track variations with multiple crossovers, that would allow drivers to pick a course, giving them the opportunity to get past rivals and keep out of the dust storm created by the lead car, a sort of rally cross hybrid.

The change over is contrived and should be replaced by allowing a release as soon as it's safe, otherwise it's pointless. The penalties seem completely unfair as the cars are equally matched to a greater extent and the cars with clean runs were within 15s of each other, a 3 minute penalty is plain stupid.

With some changes it could be watchable but 4hrs of qualifying for then 20 minutes actual racing is a bit naff.

They also make a big point about it being male/female equal etc. If that's the case make Qualification one lap only by each driver, ditch the switch and let the men and women compete on the same terms, I'm sure the challenge would make it better to watch and also show true equality. At the moment you have the men doing the harder first part, competing for the position and then the female driver basically just nannying the car to the end of the race, if they follow that same format all season it's actually going to look bad for them from a equality point of view.

simonrockman

6,130 posts

219 months

Monday 5th April
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kalexan273 said:
The change over is contrived and should be replaced by allowing a release as soon as it's safe, otherwise it's pointless. The penalties seem completely unfair as the cars are equally matched to a greater extent and the cars with clean runs were within 15s of each other, a 3 minute penalty is plain stupid.
I disagree. By making the change a comfortable time the racing is about driving and not how quickly you can get into a car.

I rather enjoyed it, And it fills a gap between Bahrain and Italy.

rscott

11,718 posts

155 months

Monday 5th April
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simonrockman said:
kalexan273 said:
The change over is contrived and should be replaced by allowing a release as soon as it's safe, otherwise it's pointless. The penalties seem completely unfair as the cars are equally matched to a greater extent and the cars with clean runs were within 15s of each other, a 3 minute penalty is plain stupid.
I disagree. By making the change a comfortable time the racing is about driving and not how quickly you can get into a car.

I rather enjoyed it, And it fills a gap between Bahrain and Italy.
GT racing has minimum pit stop times too - seems a very sensible move when driver changes are required.


HustleRussell

19,079 posts

124 months

Monday 5th April
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rscott said:
LukeBrown66 said:
With regard to climate emergency, I would prefer to take my points from scientists and Sir David who make more impact in a few seconds than some woman who no-one has heard of who is being paid to do the same.
Did you actually see who "some woman" was? https://www.zoo.ox.ac.uk/people/dr-lucy-woodall#/ - Senior Research Fellow, Department of Zoology, Oxford University.
I'd say that's pretty much the textbook definition of a scientist?


The rest of their scientific committee seem reasonably well qualified too? https://www.extreme-e.com/en/news/91_Extreme-E-unv...
rscott clap

HustleRussell

19,079 posts

124 months

Monday 5th April
quotequote all
rscott said:
simonrockman said:
kalexan273 said:
The change over is contrived and should be replaced by allowing a release as soon as it's safe, otherwise it's pointless. The penalties seem completely unfair as the cars are equally matched to a greater extent and the cars with clean runs were within 15s of each other, a 3 minute penalty is plain stupid.
I disagree. By making the change a comfortable time the racing is about driving and not how quickly you can get into a car.

I rather enjoyed it, And it fills a gap between Bahrain and Italy.
GT racing has minimum pit stop times too - seems a very sensible move when driver changes are required.
They have learned the lesson most recently taught by Formula E- that competitive racing driver changes result in mechanics being knocked over and competitors driving without belts properly fastened.

HustleRussell

19,079 posts

124 months

Monday 5th April
quotequote all
Rob Dance said:
Driver101 said:
The BBC article is pushing that the women are as fast as the men. I tried finding the lap times and can't see them anywhere.
A destinct lack of any meaninful timing information - even the comentators were confused .
I suspect the numbers would show a huge disparity between drivers - something the promoters and MSM would not want us to see......
Karun Chandhok at one point pointed out that Molly was the fastest of the female drivers. The implication is obvious. However it doesn’t undermine the intention, in fact it highlights it- find me a woman with 9 WRC wins.

Inclusive sport is interested in creating the conditions in which female drivers can reach the top.

kalexan273 said:
They also make a big point about it being male/female equal etc. If that's the case make Qualification one lap only by each driver, ditch the switch and let the men and women compete on the same terms, I'm sure the challenge would make it better to watch and also show true equality. At the moment you have the men doing the harder first part, competing for the position and then the female driver basically just nannying the car to the end of the race, if they follow that same format all season it's actually going to look bad for them from a equality point of view.
I’m sure I heard a commentator say that the teams had individual choice of which driver completed the first leg.

RichB

44,883 posts

248 months

Monday 5th April
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Recorded some of this to watch, it's a semi-final race with three cars. Anyway the half an hour eco-preaching at the start was annoying then the race was just a cloud of dust. All seems too disjointed and not much actual racing. Didn't do much for me, sorry...

rscott

11,718 posts

155 months

Monday 5th April
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RichB said:
Recorded some of this to watch, it's a semi-final race with three cars. Anyway the half an hour eco-preaching at the start was annoying then the race was just a cloud of dust. All seems too disjointed and not much actual racing. Didn't do much for me, sorry...
They changed the format last Wednesday to reduce the number of cars in each race because of the dust. Apparently they had a trial event in January which didn't have the dust problems.

SmoothCriminal

3,446 posts

163 months

Monday 5th April
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They don't need the change that's the problem.

They've shoe horned it in to get these stupid mixed teams so they can get women into competative motorsport and try and get viewers by having big named males involved because they know if it was a female series they wouldn't have half as many, exactly the same as why w series going to be attached to f1 events.

The females laps were visibly slower to the average viewer.

I can't see races being close with the kind of environments they are racing in.

If its not dust it will be sand at the next event or snow in the Arctic or mud in the jungle , this series is just a vanity project for some of the biggest carbon emmitors on the planet to lecture the normal man about a "climate emergency".

I'm sure all that dust that was being chucked into the atmosphere while they were racing about really helped the polar bears.