2022 Rallying Thread (WRC, ERC and national rally)
Discussion
LukeBrown66 said:
I get it, and obviosuly costs will go up.
But it surely only measn one thing, less peopel doing it, how on earth are you supposed to start rallying these days, at this level! Without daddy money
There really is no simple answer. Despite what some people may think there are some very intelligent and dedicated people involved in organising events. ( I am not including my self in the very intelligent bit, but maybe the dedicated bit)But it surely only measn one thing, less peopel doing it, how on earth are you supposed to start rallying these days, at this level! Without daddy money
When I talk about cost I don't mean the increases brought on by inflation (although that is a factor) I am referring to the overall increases that will have an impact on events.
Edited by Drumroll on Sunday 28th August 10:59
Drumroll said:
LukeBrown66 said:
I get it, and obviosuly costs will go up.
But it surely only measn one thing, less peopel doing it, how on earth are you supposed to start rallying these days, at this level! Without daddy money
There really is no simple answer. Despite what some people may think there are some very intelligent and dedicated people involved in organising events. ( I am not including my self in the very intelligent bit, but maybe the dedicated bit)But it surely only measn one thing, less peopel doing it, how on earth are you supposed to start rallying these days, at this level! Without daddy money
When I talk about cost I don't mean the increases brought on by inflation (although that is a factor) I am referring to the overall increases that will have an impact on events.
Edited by Drumroll on Sunday 28th August 10:59
Nowadays in the UK as many of you know there is Targa rallying - which serves as a good entry level, daytime event where you compete against the clock, timed to the second. It's very popular with competitors, but not so much with the general public - due to some long-seated heritage about keeping "road" rallying under the radar.
Targa rallying (and night-time road rallying) is much more akin to the sport of the 70s, and costs very little.
thepawbroon said:
Drumroll said:
LukeBrown66 said:
I get it, and obviosuly costs will go up.
But it surely only measn one thing, less peopel doing it, how on earth are you supposed to start rallying these days, at this level! Without daddy money
There really is no simple answer. Despite what some people may think there are some very intelligent and dedicated people involved in organising events. ( I am not including my self in the very intelligent bit, but maybe the dedicated bit)But it surely only measn one thing, less peopel doing it, how on earth are you supposed to start rallying these days, at this level! Without daddy money
When I talk about cost I don't mean the increases brought on by inflation (although that is a factor) I am referring to the overall increases that will have an impact on events.
Edited by Drumroll on Sunday 28th August 10:59
Nowadays in the UK as many of you know there is Targa rallying - which serves as a good entry level, daytime event where you compete against the clock, timed to the second. It's very popular with competitors, but not so much with the general public - due to some long-seated heritage about keeping "road" rallying under the radar.
Targa rallying (and night-time road rallying) is much more akin to the sport of the 70s, and costs very little.
Drumroll said:
Costs are only likely to go one way. If I am honest rallying has been done "on the cheap" for too long now.
I think it's a long long time since rallying was done on the cheap in this country to be honest. Between the H+S morons, forestry commission and the wonder that is the MSA costs have been stratospheric for years. I gave up forest rallying in 2004 due to the costs and that was just the entry fees, with all the nonsense you're forced to have on/in the car now it's a miracle anyone still competes.
ArnageWRC said:
It's probably far easier, and better value for money to do club circuit racing - and MSUK would probably prefer that as well. One never feels they're particularly pro-active towards rallying - and tend to react to issues.
a bit of a sweeping generalisation, the MUK Chairman was in fact a rally co driver.However far more people go circuit racing than rallying, so you may well prioritise your biggest earners over your smaller ones.
Rallying and rally organisation needs to be taken in house, with fewer rallies but better organisation.
DR has a foot in every camp to be fair. ANd has had for a long time, his rally days ended with Mini and perhaps even before that.
Any kind of MSUK motorsport is very difficult to get into even on a basic level.
You need to be in this club, which is in these associations but not all of those clubs will work with your series perhaps, you have to pay an entry fee here, for the series there, you need this level of gear here, this type of licence, not every helmet is suitable only certain overalls and gloves and boots are suitable.
It is ridiculous, admittedly not all of it MSUK's fault, but it could and should be far, far easier to get into motorsport. If you want to.
Regarding rallying I do feel that all the stuff in Scotland has almost made the MSUK so petrified they and insurance have basically had to wrap it in cotton wool, which forces costs through the roof, I am amazed peopel still do it really.
Any kind of MSUK motorsport is very difficult to get into even on a basic level.
You need to be in this club, which is in these associations but not all of those clubs will work with your series perhaps, you have to pay an entry fee here, for the series there, you need this level of gear here, this type of licence, not every helmet is suitable only certain overalls and gloves and boots are suitable.
It is ridiculous, admittedly not all of it MSUK's fault, but it could and should be far, far easier to get into motorsport. If you want to.
Regarding rallying I do feel that all the stuff in Scotland has almost made the MSUK so petrified they and insurance have basically had to wrap it in cotton wool, which forces costs through the roof, I am amazed peopel still do it really.
LukeBrown66 said:
DR has a foot in every camp to be fair. ANd has had for a long time, his rally days ended with Mini and perhaps even before that.
<snip>
I am amazed peopel still do it really.
VW China Programme between 2014 and 2018<snip>
I am amazed peopel still do it really.
Still enough of a draw for plenty of people to want to compete.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
ArnageWRC said:
It's probably far easier, and better value for money to do club circuit racing - and MSUK would probably prefer that as well. One never feels they're particularly pro-active towards rallying - and tend to react to issues.
a bit of a sweeping generalisation, the MUK Chairman was in fact a rally co driver.However far more people go circuit racing than rallying, so you may well prioritise your biggest earners over your smaller ones.
Rallying and rally organisation needs to be taken in house, with fewer rallies but better organisation.
Saying that, the sport doesn't help itself. Stuck in a timewarp......
K50 DEL said:
I think it's a long long time since rallying was done on the cheap in this country to be honest. Between the H+S morons, forestry commission and the wonder that is the MSA costs have been stratospheric for years.
I gave up forest rallying in 2004 due to the costs and that was just the entry fees, with all the nonsense you're forced to have on/in the car now it's a miracle anyone still competes.
To be fair the circuit rallies and s/v rallies at places like 3 Sisters are not expensive. Yes, yes, yes, they are not “proper rallies”, I know, but I like them, and spectator friendly.I gave up forest rallying in 2004 due to the costs and that was just the entry fees, with all the nonsense you're forced to have on/in the car now it's a miracle anyone still competes.
ArnageWRC said:
It's probably far easier, and better value for money to do club circuit racing - and MSUK would probably prefer that as well. One never feels they're particularly pro-active towards rallying - and tend to react to issues.
It is certainly easier to go club circuit racing. When I decided to have a go at rallying about 3-4 years ago I found it very difficult to find out even basic info despite 15 or so years in club racing at the time.Rallying is stuck in the 20th century in terms of social media, promotion and general attempts to grow the sport, and the main reason for that in my opinion is because rallying is still,often largely organised by small local clubs rather than by national race clubs. The rallying model worked in the 20th century, it doesn’t work now imho.
Edited by andy97 on Tuesday 30th August 14:23
LukeBrown66 said:
Regarding rallying I do feel that all the stuff in Scotland has almost made the MSUK so petrified they and insurance have basically had to wrap it in cotton wool, which forces costs through the roof, I am amazed peopel still do it really.
It really boils my p*** when you go on about the SPECTATOR SAFETY AT MULTI –VENUE STAGE RALLIES IN SCOTLAND which is the title for the recommendations that came out following the Jim Clark incidents in 2014 and the incident on the 2013 Snowman Rally. What do you think would have happened to rallying in the UK if we hadn't followed those recommendations? Well, that one is quite simple there would be no rallying in the UK.
It is not a question of wrapping people up in cotton wool, if you read the report it states "However, motor racing is inherently dangerous and rallies can never be completely safe for participants or spectators." it is all about managing risk and being able to demonstrate that you have done all that is practical for you to do.
The reason no criminal prosecutions resulted from the deaths in Scotland and another in Wales, is that the organisers could demonstrate they had taken reasonable steps to protect spectators. That didn't stop several people who were/are all volunteers going through over 24 months of uncertainty as to if they were going to be formally charged and face the very real prospect of receiving a prison sentence at the end of a trial.
I know intimately what happened at the Jim Clark Rally in 2014 as I attended both incidents. (doing CPR on one of those killed) I was interviewed under caution for over 2 hours by the Scottish police who had traveled down to Yorkshire just to interview me. I had to prepare some details to submit to the review group and the Procurator Fiscal.
So maybe now you can see why it boils my p*** that you continue to trot out the same rubbish that has no basis in fact.
LukeBrown66 said:
Any kind of MSUK motorsport is very difficult to get into even on a basic level.
Maybe have a look at the MSUK website to see all the stuff you can do with the free RS Clubman licence. Some of it can be done in a standard car with no need for expensive gear. It's very easy to get into if you want to.Regarding "stuff in Scotland", I echo what Drumroll has said about the threat of criminal prosecution and I'll add that even in the non-fatal spectator incidents there were threats of legal action both against organisers and competitors. Had any of those gone ahead and succeeded then rallying, and probably all UK motorsport, would've ended.
roll
To be honest you are the type of person that makes me thankful I do not have much to do with rallying anymore, the sport is full of people like you, and that is half the reason it is dying. And this is not my view solely, I have several friends who think this sadly. God people who have been rally fans for decades.
People have been enjoying the sport here and worldwide for decades and it is ONLY here that it is now basically dead for spectators, despite accidents and incidents all over the world. To me it pretty much is dead in this country save for a couple of events, I do not watch coverage of British rallying at all.
We will never agree and I really don't care about your experiences a jot, they are yours, NOT mine.
Enjoy it while you can.
To be honest you are the type of person that makes me thankful I do not have much to do with rallying anymore, the sport is full of people like you, and that is half the reason it is dying. And this is not my view solely, I have several friends who think this sadly. God people who have been rally fans for decades.
People have been enjoying the sport here and worldwide for decades and it is ONLY here that it is now basically dead for spectators, despite accidents and incidents all over the world. To me it pretty much is dead in this country save for a couple of events, I do not watch coverage of British rallying at all.
We will never agree and I really don't care about your experiences a jot, they are yours, NOT mine.
Enjoy it while you can.
Edited by LukeBrown66 on Tuesday 30th August 21:26
LukeBrown66 said:
roll
, I do not watch coverage of British rallying at all.
So you don't attend any events, partake in any events or even watch it and you don't want to listen to those who give up their free time to keep it alive., I do not watch coverage of British rallying at all.
Edited by LukeBrown66 on Tuesday 30th August 21:26
But yet you spend hours on here every day complaining about this and everything else going on in the world. I would consider that a bad use of ones time, really not good for the mind, why not go outside and do something productive, focus on positive things. You are a strange man.
There is really no need to be nasty or abusive, it serves no purpose and says far more about you than me.
I go out and do plenty of stuff, I just don't feel the need to wax lyrical about it on here endllessly like others do.
I am simply a person that used to love watching a certain sport, and have found that sport totally ruined for myself personally, that is my point.
I couldn't care less about people running it, that is their perogative, I am thankful for their efforts but as you say I don't watch rallying much anymore, not because I don't like it, but because in many cases for me locally I literally can't watch it anymore.
Does that mean I am not allowed a view or am supposed to bow down to people that do, or are involved in organising it? I would hope not, but as is usually the case on forums or social media people that are involved have such over bearing views that they think they speak for everyone and their opinion matters far more than anyone elses, it is like talking about riders, teams or drivers apparently unless you have done it you are not allowed to have a view, utter nonsense garbage and rot.
Not the case, my views are mine and those of a few friends who were lucky enough to be able to enjoy this sport AS IT WAS for many years, those days are gone, through no fault of my own, through the repeated failures of others.
I understand why, I know why, but do I have to like it? No. Can I do anything about it, No. Can I be sad I can't enjoy this sport anymore, yes, on a place like this.
It's fairly simple really
I go out and do plenty of stuff, I just don't feel the need to wax lyrical about it on here endllessly like others do.
I am simply a person that used to love watching a certain sport, and have found that sport totally ruined for myself personally, that is my point.
I couldn't care less about people running it, that is their perogative, I am thankful for their efforts but as you say I don't watch rallying much anymore, not because I don't like it, but because in many cases for me locally I literally can't watch it anymore.
Does that mean I am not allowed a view or am supposed to bow down to people that do, or are involved in organising it? I would hope not, but as is usually the case on forums or social media people that are involved have such over bearing views that they think they speak for everyone and their opinion matters far more than anyone elses, it is like talking about riders, teams or drivers apparently unless you have done it you are not allowed to have a view, utter nonsense garbage and rot.
Not the case, my views are mine and those of a few friends who were lucky enough to be able to enjoy this sport AS IT WAS for many years, those days are gone, through no fault of my own, through the repeated failures of others.
I understand why, I know why, but do I have to like it? No. Can I do anything about it, No. Can I be sad I can't enjoy this sport anymore, yes, on a place like this.
It's fairly simple really
You jump to the 'nasty and abusive' very quickly
Have a look back at your own posts
To be honest you are the type of person that makes me thankful I do not have much to do with rallying anymore, the sport is full of people like you, and that is half the reason it is dying
I really don't care about your experiences a jot
Don't make posts like that and then complain when others return in kind
Also, I asked this of Chunder27 and now I will ask it of you, You posted elsewhere that you are in Oxfordshire. Have you spectated on either Three Shires or Clacton rally. Both spectator friendly and within a couple of hours drive, what did you think?
Have a look back at your own posts
To be honest you are the type of person that makes me thankful I do not have much to do with rallying anymore, the sport is full of people like you, and that is half the reason it is dying
I really don't care about your experiences a jot
Don't make posts like that and then complain when others return in kind
Also, I asked this of Chunder27 and now I will ask it of you, You posted elsewhere that you are in Oxfordshire. Have you spectated on either Three Shires or Clacton rally. Both spectator friendly and within a couple of hours drive, what did you think?
Edited by mfmman on Wednesday 31st August 11:38
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