2022 Rallying Thread (WRC, ERC and national rally)
Discussion
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/uk-set-to-miss-...
To nobody's surprise, no WRC event on our shores next season.
To nobody's surprise, no WRC event on our shores next season.
I have thinking for ages that an ERC event in ireland, Wales, or even something like Epynt would be fabulous.
the Czech event at the weekend was fabulous, proper old school tar allying, narrow, bumpy roads, poor surfaces a true test of rallying.
Isle of Man, praps Mull, Ireland is the obvious candidate, but something or maybe Jim Clark?
But I think the ERC is now owned and run by WRC so is under the same paywall bracket, though it always used to be on Eurosport.
No name calling here, although I could easily have reported several posters, but did not, you know who you are.
the Czech event at the weekend was fabulous, proper old school tar allying, narrow, bumpy roads, poor surfaces a true test of rallying.
Isle of Man, praps Mull, Ireland is the obvious candidate, but something or maybe Jim Clark?
But I think the ERC is now owned and run by WRC so is under the same paywall bracket, though it always used to be on Eurosport.
No name calling here, although I could easily have reported several posters, but did not, you know who you are.
ArnageWRC said:
It doesn't matter if it's ERC, or WRC; the problem remains. Finding a sponsor/ backer for the hosting fee......there doesn't seem to be anything out there, as the ROI isn't particularly good. Especially with the live coverage behind a paywall.
Exactly this. Wales (WRC), Scotland (IRC) "Joint" Ireland (WRC) and Northern Ireland (ERC) have all tried, and the resultant coverage wasn't enough for the central funding to continue.
So the basic issue is the same as most motorsport that hopes it is high level but in reality is not. Like DTM, rallycross, MXGP in terms of people watching online rather than live spectators at events.
Events are linked to only one thing, can the people organising it afford to pay the hosting fees aswell as the cost of running the event, meaning that the vast majority of events are funded either by countries tourism boards or areas or states/counties in countries that have the budget to pay for this.
In the past ERC was linked to Eurosport, I don't get Eurosport so don't know if coverage is still on there, or is it all now just behind the ridiculous WRC paywall.
So you are massively limiting coverage and viewers for a probably fairly small profit gained from selling tv rights for a very low viewer count event, genius idea. And no shcok therefore why a UK country or county cannot and wil not do it.
I presume this is also why Wales decided not to carry on?
And Red Bull seemingly like any other rights holder have no care of history, just profit
Events are linked to only one thing, can the people organising it afford to pay the hosting fees aswell as the cost of running the event, meaning that the vast majority of events are funded either by countries tourism boards or areas or states/counties in countries that have the budget to pay for this.
In the past ERC was linked to Eurosport, I don't get Eurosport so don't know if coverage is still on there, or is it all now just behind the ridiculous WRC paywall.
So you are massively limiting coverage and viewers for a probably fairly small profit gained from selling tv rights for a very low viewer count event, genius idea. And no shcok therefore why a UK country or county cannot and wil not do it.
I presume this is also why Wales decided not to carry on?
And Red Bull seemingly like any other rights holder have no care of history, just profit
Yes, ERC was part of Eurosport Events, but has now been taken over by WRC Promoter, along with WRC, and World RX.
It now has All Live coverage, as WRC does, but I'd love to know the numbers they get. Even on this thread, and other motorsport forums, ERC gets very little comment. I assume people simply don't know it's happening.
What I found quite damning was earlier in the season, the championship leader, Nils Solans couldn't continue, as he had no budget.
It now has All Live coverage, as WRC does, but I'd love to know the numbers they get. Even on this thread, and other motorsport forums, ERC gets very little comment. I assume people simply don't know it's happening.
What I found quite damning was earlier in the season, the championship leader, Nils Solans couldn't continue, as he had no budget.
Edited by ArnageWRC on Thursday 1st September 11:24
I struggle to see how WRC can carry on for much longer in its current format (which in turn will have knock-on effects for everything else).
Most manufacturers have already said they are stopping the production of ICE cars very shortly. Making current cars even less relevant. You can get away with having a "special battery" on current cars but doesn't do your marketing much good if you have to have a "special battery" for the all-electric car you are selling, especially with all the concerns about electric car safety.
There is already an all-electric Rallycross championship (running alongside the WRX championship) but they are a specific space-framed car. Rallycross lends itself to this as it is a short-duration race.
We have seen the first hydrogen rally car, but there is still a lot to do on it and not many manufacturers are looking at it as a possible power source.
Going back to electric, whilst there is an electric car doing Ralli Ceredigion this weekend it needs its own safety chase car and is unlikely to finish as the battery won't have the capacity.
Most manufacturers have already said they are stopping the production of ICE cars very shortly. Making current cars even less relevant. You can get away with having a "special battery" on current cars but doesn't do your marketing much good if you have to have a "special battery" for the all-electric car you are selling, especially with all the concerns about electric car safety.
There is already an all-electric Rallycross championship (running alongside the WRX championship) but they are a specific space-framed car. Rallycross lends itself to this as it is a short-duration race.
We have seen the first hydrogen rally car, but there is still a lot to do on it and not many manufacturers are looking at it as a possible power source.
Going back to electric, whilst there is an electric car doing Ralli Ceredigion this weekend it needs its own safety chase car and is unlikely to finish as the battery won't have the capacity.
On a more positive note. There will be a Circuit Rally Championship 22/23
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I have said on here for years I do not want WRC in its current format, I think there should be R5 and R5+ maybe and all the stuff we have now.
You will never make WRC Eco friendly, it's like trying to make tractor pulling that way or drag racing, but the promoter will likely never be happy without manufacturers they never are whether they ruin series or not.
If you had R5 and R5+ I can guarantee most events would have at least 20 to 30 of those cars, it's common sense to me. I know they are not as spectacular
You will never make WRC Eco friendly, it's like trying to make tractor pulling that way or drag racing, but the promoter will likely never be happy without manufacturers they never are whether they ruin series or not.
If you had R5 and R5+ I can guarantee most events would have at least 20 to 30 of those cars, it's common sense to me. I know they are not as spectacular
LukeBrown66 said:
I have said on here for years I do not want WRC in its current format, I think there should be R5 and R5+ maybe and all the stuff we have now.
You will never make WRC Eco friendly, it's like trying to make tractor pulling that way or drag racing, but the promoter will likely never be happy without manufacturers they never are whether they ruin series or not.
If you had R5 and R5+ I can guarantee most events would have at least 20 to 30 of those cars, it's common sense to me. I know they are not as spectacular
you do live in your own bubble don't you?You will never make WRC Eco friendly, it's like trying to make tractor pulling that way or drag racing, but the promoter will likely never be happy without manufacturers they never are whether they ruin series or not.
If you had R5 and R5+ I can guarantee most events would have at least 20 to 30 of those cars, it's common sense to me. I know they are not as spectacular
We have to have a 'green' propulsion option, not just for manufacturer involvement, but to assuage the environmentalist who feels that motorsport and the celebration of the car is a bad thing. Also when it comes to selling the 'WRC' to host cities, having an hybrid only road section where the car runs on batteries is a positive on many levels. Even if it a little bit of green washing. I personally want motorsport to continue in all its formats and I'd hate it to be banned. And with the energy crises and rumours of energy rationing, maybe they'll decide to ban all car usage on a Saturday - which would including racing cars.
Yes they are expensive, but the solution isn't R5 as they are beyond the reach of the clubman. The solution is to allow all rally cars to enter any event they want, rather than it now being impossible to compete in a 205 gti on a WRC event.
Sorry but that is beyond silly chap, or you will get people turning up at WRC events in Mk2 Escorts and old Group B or S cars hashed up to suit the rules.
WRC OUGHT to be beyond the clubman., it is silly to think a bloke towing a car on Transit could compete in WRC events, those days should and thankfully are gone. there is a ladder now and it is aimed at getting people into newer cars to follow that ladder
I understand your viewpoint, but that really is living in the past. R5 is not stupidly expensive, the cars are built to a budget, admittedly a higher one than most can afford, but you only have to see how common they are to see that any events running primarily with them would attract a massive entry.
WRC ought to and has to be aspirational, yes it was great when you could enter your GpN Corolla on the RAC, but that was 40 years ago, the sport has moved on. But R5 is within reach for lots of people, instead of spending 100 grand on a Mk2 escort to win on an airfield.
All motorsport is at risk, so why WRC keep trying to appease the green lobby I dont know, it cant, and never will.
WRC OUGHT to be beyond the clubman., it is silly to think a bloke towing a car on Transit could compete in WRC events, those days should and thankfully are gone. there is a ladder now and it is aimed at getting people into newer cars to follow that ladder
I understand your viewpoint, but that really is living in the past. R5 is not stupidly expensive, the cars are built to a budget, admittedly a higher one than most can afford, but you only have to see how common they are to see that any events running primarily with them would attract a massive entry.
WRC ought to and has to be aspirational, yes it was great when you could enter your GpN Corolla on the RAC, but that was 40 years ago, the sport has moved on. But R5 is within reach for lots of people, instead of spending 100 grand on a Mk2 escort to win on an airfield.
All motorsport is at risk, so why WRC keep trying to appease the green lobby I dont know, it cant, and never will.
LukeBrown66 said:
Sorry but that is beyond silly chap, or you will get people turning up at WRC events in Mk2 Escorts and old Group B or S cars hashed up to suit the rules.
WRC OUGHT to be beyond the clubman., it is silly to think a bloke towing a car on Transit could compete in WRC events, those days should and thankfully are gone. there is a ladder now and it is aimed at getting people into newer cars to follow that ladder
I understand your viewpoint, but that really is living in the past. R5 is not stupidly expensive, the cars are built to a budget, admittedly a higher one than most can afford, but you only have to see how common they are to see that any events running primarily with them would attract a massive entry.
WRC ought to and has to be aspirational, yes it was great when you could enter your GpN Corolla on the RAC, but that was 40 years ago, the sport has moved on. But R5 is within reach for lots of people, instead of spending 100 grand on a Mk2 escort to win on an airfield.
All motorsport is at risk, so why WRC keep trying to appease the green lobby I dont know, it cant, and never will.
err, not sure if serious?WRC OUGHT to be beyond the clubman., it is silly to think a bloke towing a car on Transit could compete in WRC events, those days should and thankfully are gone. there is a ladder now and it is aimed at getting people into newer cars to follow that ladder
I understand your viewpoint, but that really is living in the past. R5 is not stupidly expensive, the cars are built to a budget, admittedly a higher one than most can afford, but you only have to see how common they are to see that any events running primarily with them would attract a massive entry.
WRC ought to and has to be aspirational, yes it was great when you could enter your GpN Corolla on the RAC, but that was 40 years ago, the sport has moved on. But R5 is within reach for lots of people, instead of spending 100 grand on a Mk2 escort to win on an airfield.
All motorsport is at risk, so why WRC keep trying to appease the green lobby I dont know, it cant, and never will.
on the one hand, you're all about 'it was better in the old days' but on the other, 'its better now'
WRC should not be beyond the clubman, I really don't see a lot wrong with a clubbie in a 205 gti trying to tackle the Monte in 2023.
LukeBrown66 said:
All motorsport is at risk, so why WRC keep trying to appease the green lobby I dont know, it cant, and never will.
It is not a question of appeasing the green lobby. It is called adapt to survive. Production of ICE for cars is soon going to cease in most parts of the world. To have any rellavance WRC will need to change as already explained. Added to that most venues now want " the green agenda" to be part of the equation in putting on events.Yes all motorsport is at risk, especially if it doesn't change how it presents itself.
Unfortunately marketing petrol as recycled trees (or dinosaurs depending on the sticker) doesn't really work.
But the dinosaurs who don't change will kill motorsport.
It depends if you want WRC to represent the elite or at the very least modern day cars and motoring.
Of course if you saw that it would generate a following with fans but it is hardly representative of the elite of the sport is it?
I agree there there perhaps should be the ability to do it, but for a start the 205 is not homologated anymore, so only really newer stuff could do this, and secondly I get it would be an achievement but for the same money you could probably cover your entry fees for a full season!
Of course if you saw that it would generate a following with fans but it is hardly representative of the elite of the sport is it?
I agree there there perhaps should be the ability to do it, but for a start the 205 is not homologated anymore, so only really newer stuff could do this, and secondly I get it would be an achievement but for the same money you could probably cover your entry fees for a full season!
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
err, not sure if serious?
on the one hand, you're all about 'it was better in the old days' but on the other, 'its better now'
WRC should not be beyond the clubman, I really don't see a lot wrong with a clubbie in a 205 gti trying to tackle the Monte in 2023.
International rallying has always been about homologated cars, certainly as long as I can remember (and I'm quite old).on the one hand, you're all about 'it was better in the old days' but on the other, 'its better now'
WRC should not be beyond the clubman, I really don't see a lot wrong with a clubbie in a 205 gti trying to tackle the Monte in 2023.
You *can* enter the Monte in a reasonably cheap car, you could probably buy a used R1 car for 10-15000 EUR, and it'll be entirely suitable and permitted. That cost is very much at the lower end of what most "clubmen" spend on buying or building a rally car.
Taking your example - what you are asking for is a major international event to accept a car that's been out of production for more than 20 years, and out of homologation for maybe 15 years. And that means that the technical spec and modifications could be uncontrolled and out of date w.r.t. modern safety standards.
Many WRC events (I don't think Monte does, but others do) run a shorter national rally alongside the main event. Ypres did, WRGB did, Finland and Sweden did and I'm sure many others. And many have parallel historic rallies.
So what you are asking for does pretty much exist.
This may come as shock to him but I agree with LukeBrowne here (in part at least)
WRC events shouldn't be open to all and aren't at any top level motorsport (I couldn't turn up at F1 with a FW14b for example) but what would help would be to remove all aspects of defined parts for homologation. So for example I have a Clio track car, if I wanted to do a rally for homologated cars I should be able to use any gearbox with the same number of gears as the standard one and any ratios I wish, not the choice of the super expensive homologated box or the chocolate standard one. I should be able to fit any commercially available disc/caliper combo I can fit within the standard wheel size. Then limit entry to cars for 10 years after the end of full production of the specific model (not the general one to avoid rebadged stuff like 206s still in production in Iran or something 10 years after Puegeot ended worldwide sales)
The latest spec WRC cars are an irrelevance to all but the manufacturers, use of them is restricted so a well heeled private driver can't run one anyway. More focus should be placed on the R5 cars though in the coverage
I don't care if people use a Transit van and trailer though, I don't see how that is measure of anything really.
WRC events shouldn't be open to all and aren't at any top level motorsport (I couldn't turn up at F1 with a FW14b for example) but what would help would be to remove all aspects of defined parts for homologation. So for example I have a Clio track car, if I wanted to do a rally for homologated cars I should be able to use any gearbox with the same number of gears as the standard one and any ratios I wish, not the choice of the super expensive homologated box or the chocolate standard one. I should be able to fit any commercially available disc/caliper combo I can fit within the standard wheel size. Then limit entry to cars for 10 years after the end of full production of the specific model (not the general one to avoid rebadged stuff like 206s still in production in Iran or something 10 years after Puegeot ended worldwide sales)
The latest spec WRC cars are an irrelevance to all but the manufacturers, use of them is restricted so a well heeled private driver can't run one anyway. More focus should be placed on the R5 cars though in the coverage
I don't care if people use a Transit van and trailer though, I don't see how that is measure of anything really.
Actually you are wrong, there are privateers that run current era hybrid cars, a Greek chap runs a Focus and others have run them in the past, it is not out of reach, but out of pocket, in fact a guy ran a Puma earlier this year in Belgium, then Loubet who is basically a privateer ran one too. It is possible/.
The Tranits is all about image, for it to be a world championship you have to have image too, or so the rights holders would have you believe.
I was a very close follower of rallycross when IMG came in all singing dancing stuff, costs went through the roof, (in fairness they did some great stuff aswell as bad stuff, it became a hot property but quickly fell away) coverage of all classes was dropped to only elite classes, yet everyone paid the same entry fees and other fees, the privateers were even excluded from running with the factory teams, they went electric early, no-one was interested so IMG dropped it like after losing a ton of money (they ran a disastrous event at Silverstone themselves a huge cock-up), red Bull also picked that up and are doing very little to make it interesting other than bringing in a hopelessly poor electric class and again hiding it all behind paywalls.
I will say one thing for IMG last couple of years they made it free to air on Youtube, but I think that was because they couldn't get tv buyers for it, and that is the issue, no manufacturers means it is probably harder to ell to tv companies, because it is all about money and sales, not sport, fans or anything else. They would rather 500 people watched it and paid, than make it free to air for millions to watch, spread the word etc.
WRR for me should be current R5, chuff the manufacturers there are countless in R5 who would be happy to take up the slack, entries would be huge, results would be unpredictable, rallies would be closer,
The Tranits is all about image, for it to be a world championship you have to have image too, or so the rights holders would have you believe.
I was a very close follower of rallycross when IMG came in all singing dancing stuff, costs went through the roof, (in fairness they did some great stuff aswell as bad stuff, it became a hot property but quickly fell away) coverage of all classes was dropped to only elite classes, yet everyone paid the same entry fees and other fees, the privateers were even excluded from running with the factory teams, they went electric early, no-one was interested so IMG dropped it like after losing a ton of money (they ran a disastrous event at Silverstone themselves a huge cock-up), red Bull also picked that up and are doing very little to make it interesting other than bringing in a hopelessly poor electric class and again hiding it all behind paywalls.
I will say one thing for IMG last couple of years they made it free to air on Youtube, but I think that was because they couldn't get tv buyers for it, and that is the issue, no manufacturers means it is probably harder to ell to tv companies, because it is all about money and sales, not sport, fans or anything else. They would rather 500 people watched it and paid, than make it free to air for millions to watch, spread the word etc.
WRR for me should be current R5, chuff the manufacturers there are countless in R5 who would be happy to take up the slack, entries would be huge, results would be unpredictable, rallies would be closer,
Is there a current WRC specification Focus?
The current WRC Pumas in question have all been run by M-Sport haven't they? So not being run by the privateer themselves, without manufacturer support the car cannot be homologated can it? So the class is only of relevance to the manufacturer, no manufacturer support (even if not financial as is suggested with M-Sport) then no car to be entered.
The current WRC Pumas in question have all been run by M-Sport haven't they? So not being run by the privateer themselves, without manufacturer support the car cannot be homologated can it? So the class is only of relevance to the manufacturer, no manufacturer support (even if not financial as is suggested with M-Sport) then no car to be entered.
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