What is going wrong with the BTCC?
Discussion
rex said:
Dan BSCS said:
The Supercars TV coverage is gold standard. Some of the best there is in Motorsport. Makes a massive difference to the overall product
The chap on the grid walk is superb and is the only grid walk that doesn’t make me cringeDanielSan said:
Thank the fans for Larko still being there doing the grid and pit lane stuff. The TV company wanted to drop him before the start of last year until the Aussie fans started a petition and signed it in their thousands asking for him to stay.
Yeah. And they dumped Riana too but now she’s back as well. They had it so right and tried to mess with it but at least they realised their mistake and fixed it. All the presenters are knowledgable, enthusiastic and likeable and the technical details they cover in the broadcast really makes a difference. Not like the seriously dumbed down BTCC coverage explaining every 5 minutes about the hybrid indictator graphics. 
I’m not really in favour of punishing success for the sake of ‘the show’. But I accept this is part of the BTCC circus.
As I understand it, the new hybrid formula allows for a prescribed amount of deployment per lap. This is the same amount per lap for everyone, with success punished by reducing the number of laps it can be used. So far this doesn’t seem to spice up the racing the way weight penalties did.
I have an idea how to implement the hybrid system differently. You guys can tell me why this will not work.
Do not limit how much hybrid power can be deployed per lap. Instead, have a maximum capacity, and let the driver choose when to deploy and when to recharge.
The success penalty could be applied by reducing the maximum capacity, similar to how the way the weight used to be added.
As I understand it, the new hybrid formula allows for a prescribed amount of deployment per lap. This is the same amount per lap for everyone, with success punished by reducing the number of laps it can be used. So far this doesn’t seem to spice up the racing the way weight penalties did.
I have an idea how to implement the hybrid system differently. You guys can tell me why this will not work.
Do not limit how much hybrid power can be deployed per lap. Instead, have a maximum capacity, and let the driver choose when to deploy and when to recharge.
The success penalty could be applied by reducing the maximum capacity, similar to how the way the weight used to be added.
Biggest issue with they hybrid is the number of times it fails. You've only got watch Dan Lloyds videos or read the after race reports from various teams to see that it's rare that it works properly for every session for every car (if it ever has done).
Until they have it working 100% reliably, so they can actually gauge the impact it does or doesn't have, it doesn't seem to me that it's worth changing it around unless it leads to more reliability.
JoelH said:
Biggest issue with they hybrid is the number of times it fails. You've only got watch Dan Lloyds videos or read the after race reports from various teams to see that it's rare that it works properly for every session for every car (if it ever has done).
^^^^ This.The "hybrid" system is an absolute joke. Only works sometimes. Many drivers are scared to press the button in case it ends their race.
It can fail with the consequence being that it simply doesn't work. Or it can fail with more spectacular results and it will take out the bell housing, clutch and gearbox with it. And do Cosworth pay for the subsequent damage? What do you think?
And if you really want a chuckle, while thinking about this new "green", environmentally-aware race series, have a wander around the back of the garages and have a look at the big diesel generators that the teams have to use to charge the hybrid batteries...
For me, and this goes for so much motorsport now, it’s the bloody safety car periods. You’re just about getting into the swing of it, battles are forming…. And a car stops off the track, and the race is neutralised. Yes, I know all about safety blah blah blah, but if it’s on telly, I fast forward. Yep, I never watch it live.
Also, the whole event is diluted by having three races at each meeting. Nobody wants a damaged car that can’t be repaired for race 2 and 3, so after the first corner melees it all settles down into a yawn-inducing….
….. aero train. I think I can leave that one there.
Saying all that, I went to the last round at Brands last year, enjoyed it. But would I go again? Maybe with a free ticket. Will I watch it on telly? Probably not.
The cars are fast, undoubtedly, but they’re not exciting. The drivers aren’t heroes because the cars are boring. I struggle to tell the difference between cars. Nobody cares about Ford v Vauxhall v BMW v whoever else.
It’s a bit like the WRC to most people. I work with about 100 blokes. I can bet that if I asked them to name the WRC cars and drivers, most would fail miserably. In 1985…. Well, we know there would’ve been a different response back then.
The only important motorsport now is F1, and most people I know have lost interest over the last five years or so.
Also, the whole event is diluted by having three races at each meeting. Nobody wants a damaged car that can’t be repaired for race 2 and 3, so after the first corner melees it all settles down into a yawn-inducing….
….. aero train. I think I can leave that one there.
Saying all that, I went to the last round at Brands last year, enjoyed it. But would I go again? Maybe with a free ticket. Will I watch it on telly? Probably not.
The cars are fast, undoubtedly, but they’re not exciting. The drivers aren’t heroes because the cars are boring. I struggle to tell the difference between cars. Nobody cares about Ford v Vauxhall v BMW v whoever else.
It’s a bit like the WRC to most people. I work with about 100 blokes. I can bet that if I asked them to name the WRC cars and drivers, most would fail miserably. In 1985…. Well, we know there would’ve been a different response back then.
The only important motorsport now is F1, and most people I know have lost interest over the last five years or so.
Truthfully think the hybrid stuff was brought in without the full testing done didn't most of the team's not get the system till a month or so before first race and only one team did any testing prior to it coming in.
Think the idea is great but application and benefits in reality is missing on top of that just been bit too predictable recently. Needs a format change just one weekend with feature race and a longer 2nd race, also needs a big rivalry like a Plato Vs Neal type thing.
Think the idea is great but application and benefits in reality is missing on top of that just been bit too predictable recently. Needs a format change just one weekend with feature race and a longer 2nd race, also needs a big rivalry like a Plato Vs Neal type thing.
MG CHRIS said:
most of the team's not get the system till a month or so before first race and only one team did any testing prior to it coming in.
A month? A few days before the season launch at Thruxton more like. And what was the team that had it weeks in advance and had time for testing? I wonder....?At the season launch Cosworth were handing out kit to the teams and sheepishly admitting that they didn't have enough chargers for the hybrid batteries (there's meant to be a charger with every hybrid kit). So teams having to "share" chargers!
Michael Crees was sitting on his thumb up until about 2:30 as they couldn't get it to work. Bobby Thompson went out and managed about half a lap before the hybrid system failed. Aiden Moffat managed about two laps the whole day because they couldn't get the hybrid to work. The third Infiniti didn't get out at all. And the teams were paying for this "test" day, remember.
The system was barely tested before being deployed. This year's race series is effectively the test programme for the hybrid system and the teams are paying dearly to test this system for Cosworth and TOCA.
Sebring440 said:
This year's race series is effectively the test programme for the hybrid system and the teams are paying dearly to test this system for Cosworth and TOCA.
Indeed, a bit difficult to comprehend why a series organiser would implement a fundamental change in the regulations, and then not even bother ensuring one of the mandatory pieces of equipment being forced upon teams actually works... Ridiculous. Suppose Alan Gow has earnt enough over the years to show up to the meetings as a figurehead doing not a lot, then potter home feeling perfectly smug - would be nice if all the teams told him to go f
k himself and abandoned his series.I wouldn't be averse to them abandoning the hybrid system but motorsports have to be seen doing their part for the environment by implementing these systems. If anything it's probably made them more environmentally unfriendly. As mentioned above, they need huge diesel generators to charge the systems and it's extra weight in the cars leading to more tyre wear too.
Why not have a season of going back to basics and have no hybrid and no ballast? I did a bit of digging on the internet to see when ballast was introduced into the BTCC as I couldn't remember (2004 by the way). I've stolen some quotes from thecheckeredflag.co.uk and this was a quote from Gordon Shedden in 2017 after he won round 2 at the Brands Hatch season opener:
“The car was better with 66 kilos of ballast in that race than it was with nothing in the first”
Also:
It soon started a trend among drivers that Sunday afternoon.
A handful of Shedden’s rivals agreed that additional ballast had not negatively affected them as would have been expected, Team BMW‘s Colin Turkington saying “we’ve got a little bit of ballast and the car felt good with it at Media Day – this car is good with ballast in it.”
The latter’s team-mate Rob Collard also carried 66kg in his BMW 125i during race three, telling TCF “I was pleased with how well it was hanging on with the weight on board. To have a sixth place finish with 66 kilos on a softer tyre – that’s a good result.”
From something that is supposed to be used as a leveller can actually end up being an advantage. Strip it all away and take it back to basics. I don't think the support races use ballast and they produce some great racing.
Speaking of support races.....no more Ginetta's!
Why not have a season of going back to basics and have no hybrid and no ballast? I did a bit of digging on the internet to see when ballast was introduced into the BTCC as I couldn't remember (2004 by the way). I've stolen some quotes from thecheckeredflag.co.uk and this was a quote from Gordon Shedden in 2017 after he won round 2 at the Brands Hatch season opener:
“The car was better with 66 kilos of ballast in that race than it was with nothing in the first”
Also:
It soon started a trend among drivers that Sunday afternoon.
A handful of Shedden’s rivals agreed that additional ballast had not negatively affected them as would have been expected, Team BMW‘s Colin Turkington saying “we’ve got a little bit of ballast and the car felt good with it at Media Day – this car is good with ballast in it.”
The latter’s team-mate Rob Collard also carried 66kg in his BMW 125i during race three, telling TCF “I was pleased with how well it was hanging on with the weight on board. To have a sixth place finish with 66 kilos on a softer tyre – that’s a good result.”
From something that is supposed to be used as a leveller can actually end up being an advantage. Strip it all away and take it back to basics. I don't think the support races use ballast and they produce some great racing.
Speaking of support races.....no more Ginetta's!
TO73074E said:
Why not have a season of going back to basics and have no hybrid and no ballast? I did a bit of digging on the internet to see when ballast was introduced into the BTCC as I couldn't remember (2004 by the way). I've stolen some quotes from thecheckeredflag.co.uk and this was a quote from Gordon Shedden in 2017 after he won round 2 at the Brands Hatch season opener:
Success ballast was first introduced in 2000 for the final season of super touring. It was based on the previous meetings results rather than the championship order/last race.It’s the three race format that was introduced in 2004, and that season it was the race 2 with the reverse grid.
Did enjoy the TV coverage today found it very entertaining and exciting .took my grand kids to the Saturday event we all had a great day with friendly and enthusiastic people. thought it good value for money. Im a rookie to the sport but think I will be coming back for more. Sure beats spending £200 for 90mins of me team not trying.
Beethree said:
Best rounds of the year today IMO. Lots of battles up and down the field, more of what I expect from BTCC. The extra pressure being the penultimate weekend must have helped!
National circuit often produces the best racing, in all championships from clubman to professional. I think it's because there's nothing (scenery) to hit so it's less necessary for the drivers to 'squeeze the fear' and so they can all find that little bit extra.JmatthewB said:
TO73074E said:
Why not have a season of going back to basics and have no hybrid and no ballast? I did a bit of digging on the internet to see when ballast was introduced into the BTCC as I couldn't remember (2004 by the way). I've stolen some quotes from thecheckeredflag.co.uk and this was a quote from Gordon Shedden in 2017 after he won round 2 at the Brands Hatch season opener:
Success ballast was first introduced in 2000 for the final season of super touring. It was based on the previous meetings results rather than the championship order/last race.It’s the three race format that was introduced in 2004, and that season it was the race 2 with the reverse grid.
Normally as a treat from my son he buys us tickets for the last round of the British superbikes, but this year he was away on business so we had a look online and booked tickets for the weekend before at Brands to find it was the final round of the BTCC and although i watch most rounds on tv i haven't seen them in the flesh for sometime.
And although the show was impressive the racing was constantly interrupted by Safety cars, the crash in the Porche race certainly warranted a safety car and eventfully a red flag but some of the other incidence/accidents the safety car went out to slow the field down only for the car to drive away from the incident.
I was glad i recorded it and watch it back later just to work out what was going on. Don't think i will be rushing back any time soon.
And although the show was impressive the racing was constantly interrupted by Safety cars, the crash in the Porche race certainly warranted a safety car and eventfully a red flag but some of the other incidence/accidents the safety car went out to slow the field down only for the car to drive away from the incident.
I was glad i recorded it and watch it back later just to work out what was going on. Don't think i will be rushing back any time soon.
A lot of the issue there is the tv scheduling, there is really no need whatsoever for the whole day to be live on ITV, it is often the case also with BSB, a class with 60 riders in gets a 6 lap race just so that a dull BSB race can be shown live, I get it, but often it is the better supported stuff that gets the very poor deal.
LukeBrown66 said:
A lot of the issue there is the tv scheduling, there is really no need whatsoever for the whole day to be live on ITV, it is often the case also with BSB, a class with 60 riders in gets a 6 lap race just so that a dull BSB race can be shown live, I get it, but often it is the better supported stuff that gets the very poor deal.
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