Your favourite 'cheats' in motorsport
Discussion
williamp said:
That was well known- Chapman had developed a "twin chassis" car, where the inner chassis had driver, engine, suspension etc but the outher chassis sat on top of this (with the logos, etc) and was pushed down to give the advantage. He was quite open about it, but they were still banned.
But that wasn't a cheat. Chapman felt his design complied with the letter of the regulations and was totally open about it; technical details were published in the motoring press before the car ever turned up at a racetrack.Not for the first time in F1 history the FIA decided a car (not painted red) failed to comply with their interpretation of the rules.
All F1 teams bar a couple have a fuel tank in a fuel tank. Fuel is pumped into the collector and then taken from that to the engine. Some install their own, some have it made as part of the baffle system in the tank.
IIRC BAR said the tank was empty when actually the collector was still full.
IIRC BAR said the tank was empty when actually the collector was still full.
They all have a similar system, the problem with the BAR was that they used the collector tank fuel as ballast, take the fuel out of the collector and the car was under weight. That's why they got thrown out, not because of the design of the fuel cell.
BAR tried their luck on this because at the time they were running far higher fuel pressure than anyone else and the pumps wouldn't tolerate any aeration in the collector system pickups, so they had to use a bigger collector than the other teams to guarantee a good pump feed, meaning they had to run with more fuel on board.
They argued that the car never ran under weight, as the collector was always full, that was probably true, but it still contravened the regulations, so they got a slap. It was obviously an advantage to them because they struggled to get back on the pace for a while when they came back.
BAR tried their luck on this because at the time they were running far higher fuel pressure than anyone else and the pumps wouldn't tolerate any aeration in the collector system pickups, so they had to use a bigger collector than the other teams to guarantee a good pump feed, meaning they had to run with more fuel on board.
They argued that the car never ran under weight, as the collector was always full, that was probably true, but it still contravened the regulations, so they got a slap. It was obviously an advantage to them because they struggled to get back on the pace for a while when they came back.
johnfelstead said:
BAR tried their luck on this because at the time they were running far higher fuel pressure than anyone else and the pumps wouldn't tolerate any aeration in the collector system pickups, so they had to use a bigger collector than the other teams to guarantee a good pump feed, meaning they had to run with more fuel on board.
They argued that the car never ran under weight, as the collector was always full, that was probably true, but it still contravened the regulations, so they got a slap. It was obviously an advantage to them because they struggled to get back on the pace for a while when they came back.
Covered at the time, but it didn't contravene the regulations. The rules allowed them to retain enough fuel at scrutineering to run the engine, and they claimed their high pressure system needed the larger collector. If they had been ordered to run the engine to part drain the collector, their story might have been proved a lie. But they weren't, so they were never shown to have cheated.They argued that the car never ran under weight, as the collector was always full, that was probably true, but it still contravened the regulations, so they got a slap. It was obviously an advantage to them because they struggled to get back on the pace for a while when they came back.
Given some of the blatant cheating of other teams, specifically another team, running movable aerodynamic devices that apparently weren't (even though we could see them moving), it was the point where it all became too much of a farce.
(not meant to start an argument, but there are differing views)
Drag Racing:
A hidden N20 system in the hood (bonnet). There was a small N20 bottle glassed into the bonnet scoop with an injector firing straight down the carb. It was controlled through the Dzus fasteners.
After the run the bonnet was taken off and put out of the way and the car available for inspection.........
A hidden N20 system in the hood (bonnet). There was a small N20 bottle glassed into the bonnet scoop with an injector firing straight down the carb. It was controlled through the Dzus fasteners.
After the run the bonnet was taken off and put out of the way and the car available for inspection.........
JWB said:
Drag Racing:
A hidden N20 system in the hood (bonnet). There was a small N20 bottle glassed into the bonnet scoop with an injector firing straight down the carb. It was controlled through the Dzus fasteners.
After the run the bonnet was taken off and put out of the way and the car available for inspection.........
A similar sort of thing to currently available off-the-shelf systems. The 'sniper' range IIRC (available from multiple manufacturers). Easily hidden in amongst carbs and manifolds. LS1's are perfect for it... A hidden N20 system in the hood (bonnet). There was a small N20 bottle glassed into the bonnet scoop with an injector firing straight down the carb. It was controlled through the Dzus fasteners.
After the run the bonnet was taken off and put out of the way and the car available for inspection.........
A favourite trick of a well known rallycross driver was to stuff the exhaust wit brillo pads or wire wool to get the car through the pre-race noise test.
He would then sit on the start line revving the car on the limiter to blow them out of the exhaust. It was quite a sight to see a 600bhp monster spitting burning brillo pads into the infield on the grid and start!
Any post race noise failure would be blamed on damage, which more often than not had an element of truth.
He would then sit on the start line revving the car on the limiter to blow them out of the exhaust. It was quite a sight to see a 600bhp monster spitting burning brillo pads into the infield on the grid and start!
Any post race noise failure would be blamed on damage, which more often than not had an element of truth.
JWB said:
Drag Racing:
A hidden N20 system in the hood (bonnet). There was a small N20 bottle glassed into the bonnet scoop with an injector firing straight down the carb. It was controlled through the Dzus fasteners.
After the run the bonnet was taken off and put out of the way and the car available for inspection.........
There's quite a famous story surrounding this method as excercised by the Glidden's in the late 90's. Shortly after Jerry Eckman's little *whoopsie* in the pits in '97 (his bottle was hidden in the dry sump tank, and whilst warming the car up it exploded. He and the owner were banned for 2 years despite protest they never actually "used" it on a pass) Bob Glidden was quick to inform the NHRA tech crew that Jerry wasn't the only one doing it, however his protest fell on deaf ears. A hidden N20 system in the hood (bonnet). There was a small N20 bottle glassed into the bonnet scoop with an injector firing straight down the carb. It was controlled through the Dzus fasteners.
After the run the bonnet was taken off and put out of the way and the car available for inspection.........
To prove a point, Bill's sons Rusty and Billy put together a Pro Stock car and entered a national event. Now this car was outdated in every way ('90 Ford Probe body, old chassis, under-funded Ford motor etc etc.) yet managed to make the field and either got to the final or won the meeting (I can't remember which). The interesting thing here was that the Glidden's admitted from the outset that there was nitrous oxide being used on the car, even during the tech process. The NHRA officials however, couldn't find any evidence of this and allowed the car top compete. Bob and family's point was proven and disillusioned with the sport they were never involved in Pro Stock again in the same fashion (Bob did a few rent a ride jobs an became a crew chief later on, whilst his sons concentrated on Pro 5.0 and Pro Street type events).
There's another nitrous-based story involving Bob Glidden. In the 80's Glidden was Ford's golden child, receiving the lion's share of funding and development expertise from FoMoCo. He swept all before him and was winning several championships in the NHRA pro stock category and developed serious clout with the Ford big wigs. At the same time as this Ricky Smith was running in the rival IHRA'a pro stock class and attracted the attention of Ford himself by winning the championship with limited funds. For 1986 Ricky was made a "works" Ford driver too (much to Glidden's dismay as he felt he deserved a bigger deal than the "new boy"), and both he and Glidden were given the latest Ford Thunderbird body style resplendant in the red and white Motorcraft colours. This is where things started going sour; due to IHRA's larger engines (800ci versus NHRA's 500ci limit) Ricky's car was capable of quicker et's and in light of this Ford were running Ricky in their ad campaigns as "the world's quickest Ford". Obviously this didn't sit at all well with Bill Glidden so he headed to an IHRA event to teach them, Ricky and Ford a lesson! Glidden entered his 500ci NHRA legal car at an IHRA event amongst all their 800ci machines, proceeded to qualify number 1, smash the national record, become the first pro stock car to run 190mph and beat Ricky in the final! He promptly refused to have the car teched claiming nobody had protested him (the IHRA owner demanded the car be checked, stating it was his sanctioning body and if he wants someone checked then that's all it takes) and left. He was given a ban from IHRA events and never attended one again. Obviously there was no realistic way for a car that was 300ci down on capacity to blitz the national record by a tenth or two tenths and run 190+ mph a good couple of years before anyone else managed it.......although unconfirmed the obvious answer is nitrous oxide!
The final straw came during the '88 season. Ford had developed their new aerodynamic Ford Probe body style and had provided one each to Bob and Ricky to be launched simultaneously at their respective events. These events weren't scheduled for a few weeks yet both team's were carrying the new cars around in the trailer all ready to go. Frustrated by his lack of pace compared to the GM team's Ricky wheeled out the Probe ahead of schedule and promptly won the event. Bob was not impressed at Ricky "stealing his thunder!". At the end of the year Ford wanted to extend Ricky's deal but were told by Bob that if they did then he would no longer be associated with Ford. Ford found Ricky and alternative sponsor with the Stroh brewery and "released" him from his deal, and he promptly switched to a GM Trans Am believing that he would no longer receive the development help required for the Ford. Glidden's relationship with Ford pretty much ended in 1994; during the winter Ford had spent a lot of time and money developing the brand new Mustang body and Bob being the "works" driver got to use it at the start of the year. During the initial tests though Bob publicly declared it to be "a dog" and a "piece of s**t, slating it for poor aerodynamics and instability. At the first national event Bob rolled in with the new Mustang plastered across the side of his rig and the media assembled for their first proper glimpse........they were greeted by Bob and the team rolling out their 1993 Thunderbird!! Glidden again went public stating there would "never be a Mustang raced with Bob Glidden on the side". Ford were obviously less than impressed and at the end of his contract in 1997 walked away from Bob and NHRA Pro Stock. They've never provided support to a Pro Stock team since, deciding to pile their resources in to proven winner and media darling; John Force.
This is a bit of a pants one because I cant remember the guys name or what series he raced in, but it was a salon car series based at Combe. He absolutely trashed the rest of the cars over the course of the series, crossed the finishing line at the end of the last race, selected neutral and revved the car until the engine blew.
Another one regarding a single make series a few friends race in. One guy had a much faster car than everybody else. End of the session comes and all of a sudden this guy is selling an engine. Nothing wrong with that you may think, but the engine in question was apparently built by his engine builder for the upcoming new season, only the builder had messed it up and used a load of parts that increased the capacity and power of the engine! Funny that.
Another one regarding a single make series a few friends race in. One guy had a much faster car than everybody else. End of the session comes and all of a sudden this guy is selling an engine. Nothing wrong with that you may think, but the engine in question was apparently built by his engine builder for the upcoming new season, only the builder had messed it up and used a load of parts that increased the capacity and power of the engine! Funny that.
m4tthew said:
Another one regarding a single make series a few friends race in. One guy had a much faster car than everybody else. End of the session comes and all of a sudden this guy is selling an engine. Nothing wrong with that you may think, but the engine in question was apparently built by his engine builder for the upcoming new season, only the builder had messed it up and used a load of parts that increased the capacity and power of the engine! Funny that.
Skullduggery!PulsatingStar said:
Also the entire development of the Moby Dick Porsche is fairly interesting.
Ah, but it wasn't cheating, just brilliant interpretation of a rule change designed to aid their competitors (BMW).I'd have loved to have been working in that era - everything is too tightly controlled these days in GT racing, so any truly radical innovation has been outlawed.
h5lrw said:
m4tthew said:
Another one regarding a single make series a few friends race in. One guy had a much faster car than everybody else. End of the session comes and all of a sudden this guy is selling an engine. Nothing wrong with that you may think, but the engine in question was apparently built by his engine builder for the upcoming new season, only the builder had messed it up and used a load of parts that increased the capacity and power of the engine! Funny that.
Skullduggery!As I see it engineers will always try to "maximise" any advantage they can and these situations will always arise eg the BAR fuel collector tank , I also recall Ferrari were caught using some oversize barge boards a season or three ago , funny thing is they didn,t get a one race ban and fined for their "error" Some teams are more equal than others it would seem.
One of my favourite cheats I read about was the F1 team (eons ago) that actually filled their tyres with water to ensure they came up to minimum weight , good job they didn,t have a puncture on the way to scrutineering !
My least favourite cheats are the ones that involve parking your car on the track to stop other cars outqualifying you , knocking your opponent off the track in the title deciding race and witholding technical data to stop your team mates car being as fast...can you guess who ???
One of my favourite cheats I read about was the F1 team (eons ago) that actually filled their tyres with water to ensure they came up to minimum weight , good job they didn,t have a puncture on the way to scrutineering !
My least favourite cheats are the ones that involve parking your car on the track to stop other cars outqualifying you , knocking your opponent off the track in the title deciding race and witholding technical data to stop your team mates car being as fast...can you guess who ???
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