Your favourite 'cheats' in motorsport
Discussion
Zoobeef said:
Something that annoys me in club racing is that if you are cheating but still nowhere near the front then it generally just gets ignored.
What about the poor bloke right at the back that's paid just as much to enter?
He has the option to lodge a complaint as much as the guy at the front.What about the poor bloke right at the back that's paid just as much to enter?
Zoobeef said:
AWRacing said:
He has the option to lodge a complaint as much as the guy at the front.
But how does he know? You could be proper s
t and cheat your way to tenth and no-one looks in your direction because the focus is on the front 3 being weighed, powerchecked and scruitinzed.I've been involved in historic racing, Goodwood, Silverstone etc, but mainly the Masters series which is a FIA series, and cheating is rife in them.
Newly cast 'old' heads & exhaust manifolds with bigger, better ports. Lightweight aluminium gearbox & differential castings.
Even the Dunlop tyres you must use & can only get from Dunlop, apparently 'specials' are available.
One car I ran at Goodwood & won a big race with, I had only set it up & checked it out, the owner running it for just the one Goodwood race.
We were protested & went for scrutineering, along with 2nd& 3rd cars. The protest was over the engine being larger than it should be, I was nervous as I didn't know if the engine was legal or not, the scrutineers used a tool to measure the capacity by screwing a compression tester like tool into the spark plug hole, that measures volume instead.
I had to remove the rockers & pushrods for the test, when doing that I noticed the illegal aluminium cylinder head!
The capacity measured exactly as it should have been & the scrutineers never noticed the illegal head, so all was good & our win stood.
Oh & don't feel sorry for 2nd & 3rd, they were both illegal, but were allowed to keep their positions....
Newly cast 'old' heads & exhaust manifolds with bigger, better ports. Lightweight aluminium gearbox & differential castings.
Even the Dunlop tyres you must use & can only get from Dunlop, apparently 'specials' are available.
One car I ran at Goodwood & won a big race with, I had only set it up & checked it out, the owner running it for just the one Goodwood race.
We were protested & went for scrutineering, along with 2nd& 3rd cars. The protest was over the engine being larger than it should be, I was nervous as I didn't know if the engine was legal or not, the scrutineers used a tool to measure the capacity by screwing a compression tester like tool into the spark plug hole, that measures volume instead.
I had to remove the rockers & pushrods for the test, when doing that I noticed the illegal aluminium cylinder head!
The capacity measured exactly as it should have been & the scrutineers never noticed the illegal head, so all was good & our win stood.
Oh & don't feel sorry for 2nd & 3rd, they were both illegal, but were allowed to keep their positions....
How many people are running illegal cars?
Knowingly? About 20%
Knowingly and unknowingly? About 30%, as some have bought cars that are already illegal without them knowing.
It’s a time constraint - Let’s assume a race at Brands Hatch.
From the flag dropping to the next grid arriving in Parc Ferme I have 30 minutes. That’s a slowing down lap, everyone parked up in Parc Ferme, and fourth place getting weighed, and 1st, 2nd 3rd are on their way to the podium and so on. I also have to wait for them to get back. I mix up which ones get weighed or looked at. At a large popular meeting, I can easily have 30 cars as a possibility. At Silverstone on the GP circuit, I may have 40+ cars to potentially look at. I have had the whole of the Silverstone Parc Ferme stuffed before now…
If I don’t check the first 6 and just did from say 12th to 20th, there would be (and has been) uproar.
If I want to inspect further, then dependent upon what it is, I can carry on my work in the paddock. At Oulton, I have the luxury of a huge fenced in Parc Ferme, and I can easily have it “policed” with everyone asked to leave. The number of people who hang around Parc Ferme, who shouldn’t be there, is a VERY sensitive issue for some competitors. Once back in the paddock, and the instruction has been given as to what I am looking at, say throttle bodies. I have to ensure that the time they have got from me being in garage 34 at Brands and getting into the outer paddock isn’t long enough for competitors to swap out the illegal one for a legal one. Or i have to start sealing.
This is assuming that everything is going fine and nothing untoward has occurred.
You are forgetting something, the other competitors know who has a good engine, who is easy on the tyres in the first few laps so is quicker at the end, who has their braking down to a fine art etc.… and so do I.
If someone is suspected of cheating, the gaggle they normally race with will let us know. If that driver is usually 15th-20th and for no obvious reasons, today they finished, say, 6th, then the car will be inspected.
Also some championships have serious problems getting anyone to do eligibility, never mind do it for a season. This can be for a number of reasons. Too many of the competitors are difficult. The championship co-coordinator is difficult. The scrutineer has taken too much abuse from the competitors - I know some who have been threatened. If anyone is any doubt about this you are more than welcome to join me for a season. The scrutineer’s expenses weren’t paid last time. The tooling that was supposed to arrive to do the checking has gone missing. The racing is boring. There are some formula which I would be more than happy to see die on the vine due to the sheer mind-numbing boredom of the races.
Well….. Interestingly enough, this thought process is rapidly changing. There are a number of teams/championships today where if they are caught cheating, the contract is written in such a way they can lose their sponsorship as the sponsors don’t want to be seen to be cheating. This has happened to a team in a top UK formula.
Imagine you have a box at Silverstone for a decent race. 20 of your favoured customers turn up for the jolly. Your car goes out and comes in 2nd. Your chums in the box are all happy. Then the bad news. The car has been disqualified for being seriously underweight. Its deliberate cheating. Severe Egg on face.
Knowingly? About 20%
Knowingly and unknowingly? About 30%, as some have bought cars that are already illegal without them knowing.
It’s a time constraint - Let’s assume a race at Brands Hatch.
From the flag dropping to the next grid arriving in Parc Ferme I have 30 minutes. That’s a slowing down lap, everyone parked up in Parc Ferme, and fourth place getting weighed, and 1st, 2nd 3rd are on their way to the podium and so on. I also have to wait for them to get back. I mix up which ones get weighed or looked at. At a large popular meeting, I can easily have 30 cars as a possibility. At Silverstone on the GP circuit, I may have 40+ cars to potentially look at. I have had the whole of the Silverstone Parc Ferme stuffed before now…
Zoobeef said:
But how does he know? You could be proper st and cheat your way to tenth and no-one looks in your direction because the focus is on the front 3 being weighed, powerchecked and scruitinzed.
For me - it’s always the first 6, and then it might be 7th, 8th, 9th, and 10th afterwards. Or it might be 8th, 10th, 12th, and 14th. Or i choose all the red cars. That's how close to the edge I live.... If there are classes, there might be 1st, 2nd, 3rd in each class, and there can be 4 classes. This season, some of the races will have 6 classes in them. I can’t weigh/have a look at everyone. t and cheat your way to tenth and no-one looks in your direction because the focus is on the front 3 being weighed, powerchecked and scruitinzed.If I don’t check the first 6 and just did from say 12th to 20th, there would be (and has been) uproar.
If I want to inspect further, then dependent upon what it is, I can carry on my work in the paddock. At Oulton, I have the luxury of a huge fenced in Parc Ferme, and I can easily have it “policed” with everyone asked to leave. The number of people who hang around Parc Ferme, who shouldn’t be there, is a VERY sensitive issue for some competitors. Once back in the paddock, and the instruction has been given as to what I am looking at, say throttle bodies. I have to ensure that the time they have got from me being in garage 34 at Brands and getting into the outer paddock isn’t long enough for competitors to swap out the illegal one for a legal one. Or i have to start sealing.
This is assuming that everything is going fine and nothing untoward has occurred.
You are forgetting something, the other competitors know who has a good engine, who is easy on the tyres in the first few laps so is quicker at the end, who has their braking down to a fine art etc.… and so do I.
If someone is suspected of cheating, the gaggle they normally race with will let us know. If that driver is usually 15th-20th and for no obvious reasons, today they finished, say, 6th, then the car will be inspected.
Also some championships have serious problems getting anyone to do eligibility, never mind do it for a season. This can be for a number of reasons. Too many of the competitors are difficult. The championship co-coordinator is difficult. The scrutineer has taken too much abuse from the competitors - I know some who have been threatened. If anyone is any doubt about this you are more than welcome to join me for a season. The scrutineer’s expenses weren’t paid last time. The tooling that was supposed to arrive to do the checking has gone missing. The racing is boring. There are some formula which I would be more than happy to see die on the vine due to the sheer mind-numbing boredom of the races.
havoc said:
Then there are those professional outfits/teams where 'winning' means more money (lots more, usually) through prizes, increased sponsorship, increased exposure, etc. etc. The motivation to bend the rules, possibly beyond recognition, is clear.
Well….. Interestingly enough, this thought process is rapidly changing. There are a number of teams/championships today where if they are caught cheating, the contract is written in such a way they can lose their sponsorship as the sponsors don’t want to be seen to be cheating. This has happened to a team in a top UK formula.
Imagine you have a box at Silverstone for a decent race. 20 of your favoured customers turn up for the jolly. Your car goes out and comes in 2nd. Your chums in the box are all happy. Then the bad news. The car has been disqualified for being seriously underweight. Its deliberate cheating. Severe Egg on face.
bucksmanuk said:
Historic racing - Silverstone - big meeting ....
A bunch of D-types are out racing - so big budget motorsport- and one guy comes into the scrutineering bay office and says….
Innocent driver - “Can you have a look at Mr X’s car . It’s much quicker than mine.”
Chief “- Why do you say that?”
Innocent driver – “Well I can accept he’s later on the brakes, better on the corners, and can set up a car better than me – but I can’t accept him pulling out a car’s length on each gear change. I’ve got the best legal 3.8 in the country – so I’m sure his is bent. His just sounds different too…”
Chief - “OK, but we can’t just take heads off on cars like that - it would have to be an official protest”
Innocent driver – “How much is that?”
Chief - “Well its £400 for a protest and you pay his rebuild bill if it’s all legal” – not a small amount….
Innocent driver – “Right - where do I sign and hand my cheque over to? – but I want to be there or have a full on official there when the engine is stripped”.
Chief - “Well- I’ll be there” Innocent driver is happy with that.
Protest is out and Mr. X takes immediate umbrage at having his car protested – how very dare he? And counter protests innocent driver’s car and others.
The innocent driver immediately says “you can take the head off mine here if you like - as soon as it’s cold enough”. His engine is fine.
Mr X’s engine is sealed – and then some. It’s carted off to a mutually accepted engine builders with no skin in the game. 2 weeks later all are there with Mr X present still protesting his innocence “what a waste of time all this is etc.…”
The engine looks exactly as it should be, but the engine builder comments on how it “just looks a bit different.”
Its stripped down and measured. The engine has been stroked to 4.7 litres. A size thought impossible with any Jaguar 3.8 litre block. I think this is correct…
The engine builder just happens to have a correct 3.8 litre block on the premises. They put the 2 next to each other, and Mr. X is now conspicuous by his absence. No-one saw him leave. The block is NOT a Jaguar block at all - it’s a brand new casting with the appropriate dimensions altered to get the big crank in. externally - they are identical, same features, casting finish, logos, etc...
So new patterns had been made, new castings, crank, sump, engine mounts - the list goes on and on. All made to look exactly like the original items – but not quite….
This must have been a £100k cheat at least, and Mr. X got 1 race finish out of it, and that was found to be illegal.
Off to Colnbrook for thorough bking, fines etc.… no tea and medals for Mr. X
I've plenty more....
I heard a similar story, I have no idea if it is true or not, but it is funny.A bunch of D-types are out racing - so big budget motorsport- and one guy comes into the scrutineering bay office and says….
Innocent driver - “Can you have a look at Mr X’s car . It’s much quicker than mine.”
Chief “- Why do you say that?”
Innocent driver – “Well I can accept he’s later on the brakes, better on the corners, and can set up a car better than me – but I can’t accept him pulling out a car’s length on each gear change. I’ve got the best legal 3.8 in the country – so I’m sure his is bent. His just sounds different too…”
Chief - “OK, but we can’t just take heads off on cars like that - it would have to be an official protest”
Innocent driver – “How much is that?”
Chief - “Well its £400 for a protest and you pay his rebuild bill if it’s all legal” – not a small amount….
Innocent driver – “Right - where do I sign and hand my cheque over to? – but I want to be there or have a full on official there when the engine is stripped”.
Chief - “Well- I’ll be there” Innocent driver is happy with that.
Protest is out and Mr. X takes immediate umbrage at having his car protested – how very dare he? And counter protests innocent driver’s car and others.
The innocent driver immediately says “you can take the head off mine here if you like - as soon as it’s cold enough”. His engine is fine.
Mr X’s engine is sealed – and then some. It’s carted off to a mutually accepted engine builders with no skin in the game. 2 weeks later all are there with Mr X present still protesting his innocence “what a waste of time all this is etc.…”
The engine looks exactly as it should be, but the engine builder comments on how it “just looks a bit different.”
Its stripped down and measured. The engine has been stroked to 4.7 litres. A size thought impossible with any Jaguar 3.8 litre block. I think this is correct…
The engine builder just happens to have a correct 3.8 litre block on the premises. They put the 2 next to each other, and Mr. X is now conspicuous by his absence. No-one saw him leave. The block is NOT a Jaguar block at all - it’s a brand new casting with the appropriate dimensions altered to get the big crank in. externally - they are identical, same features, casting finish, logos, etc...
So new patterns had been made, new castings, crank, sump, engine mounts - the list goes on and on. All made to look exactly like the original items – but not quite….
This must have been a £100k cheat at least, and Mr. X got 1 race finish out of it, and that was found to be illegal.
Off to Colnbrook for thorough b
king, fines etc.… no tea and medals for Mr. X I've plenty more....
Guy running in a series that used the old Ford x/flow, limited to 1600cc, he built a new 2.0 engine with the Burton Power aluminium cylinder block, but to get past scrutineering it was the paint on the block was filled with iron fillings so it passed the magnet test!
Dave Walker of CCC fame came up with one for the 750MC hot hatch championship, but decided not to use it because it was plainly taking the piss, the regs stated the stock suspension mounting points could not be altered in any way. But what it didn’t say was you had to use those stock mounting points...
The club I'm involved with does keep an eye on what is going on further down the field. They've got a rough idea of what lap times a car should be capable of and if a slow driver suddenly finds a big chunk of speed, or a slow car suddenly starts doing well or a new driver comes in and starts doing well, then their progress is observed.
Sometimes there is a good reason - the slow driver decided to get some tuiition, or has taken his car to someone and made it run properly and handle consistently one corner to the next, or had a good result in a previous race and now has some confidence and self-belief. Sometimes the new hotshot driver is simply one of those exceptional drivers that turn up from time to time, who could have been a successful professional driver if the stars had aligned differently, and sometimes its a bent car. There was one that was incredibly fast in a straight line. Driver wasn't good so it wasn't quick over a lap, but that car was inspected, engine sealed and later found to be illegal.
Sometimes there is a good reason - the slow driver decided to get some tuiition, or has taken his car to someone and made it run properly and handle consistently one corner to the next, or had a good result in a previous race and now has some confidence and self-belief. Sometimes the new hotshot driver is simply one of those exceptional drivers that turn up from time to time, who could have been a successful professional driver if the stars had aligned differently, and sometimes its a bent car. There was one that was incredibly fast in a straight line. Driver wasn't good so it wasn't quick over a lap, but that car was inspected, engine sealed and later found to be illegal.
Megaflow said:
Dave Walker of CCC fame came up with one for the 750MC hot hatch championship, but decided not to use it because it was plainly taking the piss, the regs stated the stock suspension mounting points could not be altered in any way. But what it didn’t say was you had to use those stock mounting points...
Very similar to the first Mk1 Escorts raced in 1968 Touring car class which they won, rules said you must use original suspension & mounting points, which they did, but only as a guide for the up/down movement (no spring or damper on the strut), the spring & damper being a new coilover damper mounted separately.
Not a cheat, just good reading of the rules.
this is in the mid 80s - 2 Lotus twin cam engined cars- we’ll leave it at that. So the normal 1594 cc stuff ….. Errm…..
These 2 cars go very well for 1600 c.c.
A new competitor arrives with a legal 2 litre car and is nowhere near these 1600 cars – how can this be?
The new competitor asks around and finds out these 2 fast cars are not 1594 cc Lotus twin cams but one is a 2.1 litre Lotus twin cam, and the other one is a 2.2 Litre Lotus twin cam, but both are competing in the under 1600 class. The championship was such that there were only 7 cars out there, as the cost to win was getting too much- as some people were willing to spend enormous sums of money on the ultimate engines. The other 4 were under 1300 c.c. or a litre.
The (alloy - hmmm....) engine blocks and cylinder heads had been cut appropriately bore wise and stroke wise, new bits welded in, and were now at 2.1 and 2.2 litres. The 2 drivers who were both at 2 litres+ didn’t protest the others car, as they knew a counter protest would come onto them.
The eligibility scrutineer asked the drivers to explain the strange marks (the welding beads) all over the block and heads and would they be willing to undergo further inspection? He had the tooling necessary for easy stroke measurement, and both realised they would fail. They pulled themselves from the race results and the cars never competed again. I know this as I knew a good friend of one of the cheating drivers…
The championship was disbanded at the end of the year, and the cheating drivers told not to bother entering any more series/championships with that organising club.
These 2 cars go very well for 1600 c.c.
A new competitor arrives with a legal 2 litre car and is nowhere near these 1600 cars – how can this be?
The new competitor asks around and finds out these 2 fast cars are not 1594 cc Lotus twin cams but one is a 2.1 litre Lotus twin cam, and the other one is a 2.2 Litre Lotus twin cam, but both are competing in the under 1600 class. The championship was such that there were only 7 cars out there, as the cost to win was getting too much- as some people were willing to spend enormous sums of money on the ultimate engines. The other 4 were under 1300 c.c. or a litre.
The (alloy - hmmm....) engine blocks and cylinder heads had been cut appropriately bore wise and stroke wise, new bits welded in, and were now at 2.1 and 2.2 litres. The 2 drivers who were both at 2 litres+ didn’t protest the others car, as they knew a counter protest would come onto them.
The eligibility scrutineer asked the drivers to explain the strange marks (the welding beads) all over the block and heads and would they be willing to undergo further inspection? He had the tooling necessary for easy stroke measurement, and both realised they would fail. They pulled themselves from the race results and the cars never competed again. I know this as I knew a good friend of one of the cheating drivers…
The championship was disbanded at the end of the year, and the cheating drivers told not to bother entering any more series/championships with that organising club.
This is one I sadly didn’t see, but is now infamous in the annals of scrutineering history, some reading this will already know who the relevant parties are…
Silverstone, Big event, Historic type vehicles, 60’s sports cars, lots of MGBs, and MGB type engined vehicles.
Considerable disquiet was in the paddock at some people romping away down the straights when everyone should be running 1800- 1850 cc MGB engines. Lots of finger pointing at lots of people. With the agreement of the organising club, it was decided that the whole Parc Ferme of MGB engined cars would be checked for capacity. This knowledge was known to just 4 people, before it was announced. This involved over 22 cars.
The eligibility chap asked everyone to lift their bonnets, and all were expecting carburettor checks, minor inspection stuff…no….take the heads off for capacity checking – NOW!. Competitors who were legal were more than happy that this was happening, and went off for the relevant tools.
If people didn’t want to do it there and then, they could do it elsewhere/later with a sealed engine, or drive out of Parc Ferme and refuse to have their car inspected and thereby removing themselves from the results. 5 cleared off immediately and the drivers were never seen competing again…
Out of the 22 cars, just 6 were legal, 1850 cc or less. Plenty were at 1940/1950, a few at 2030, and one at 2.1 litres, a figure thought impossible from a standard MGB block.
Sometimes it’s not cheating at all… A championship for small saloons
A new guy arrived (a young lad - previously in karts), never driven one of these little cars before, and almost blitzed the field. Within 3 races, he’s on the podium, with a novice sticker on the back! 2 races after that, he’s winning or 2nd every time out. Much commenting about legality of the car etc.… Checks were done and all was well.
A story was made about the eligibility chap being in the back pocket of the new driver or knows him from elsewhere. Total rubbish. This was getting into really heated arguments in the paddock and pit lane etc... All good stuff…
The main creator of the arguments was at Silverstone for testing on a Friday, and the new guy happened to be there as well. The eligibility guy turned up a day early to watch the testing. Another argument in the pit lane about cheating ensues… new driver says “OK then, I’ll go out in your car, and you go out in mine”. This is acceptable to both parties.
New driver goes out and is nearly a second a lap faster in the other guys car than his! He comes back in and tells the other driver what he needs to change on set up to make it go even quicker. Other driver alters the setup, goes out in his own car and is half a second faster than previously. At the driver’s briefing on race day, other driver stood up, apologised for creating a lot of bad feeling and wants it to be known that the new driver is very quick indeed and should be watched by all!
Silverstone, Big event, Historic type vehicles, 60’s sports cars, lots of MGBs, and MGB type engined vehicles.
Considerable disquiet was in the paddock at some people romping away down the straights when everyone should be running 1800- 1850 cc MGB engines. Lots of finger pointing at lots of people. With the agreement of the organising club, it was decided that the whole Parc Ferme of MGB engined cars would be checked for capacity. This knowledge was known to just 4 people, before it was announced. This involved over 22 cars.
The eligibility chap asked everyone to lift their bonnets, and all were expecting carburettor checks, minor inspection stuff…no….take the heads off for capacity checking – NOW!. Competitors who were legal were more than happy that this was happening, and went off for the relevant tools.
If people didn’t want to do it there and then, they could do it elsewhere/later with a sealed engine, or drive out of Parc Ferme and refuse to have their car inspected and thereby removing themselves from the results. 5 cleared off immediately and the drivers were never seen competing again…
Out of the 22 cars, just 6 were legal, 1850 cc or less. Plenty were at 1940/1950, a few at 2030, and one at 2.1 litres, a figure thought impossible from a standard MGB block.
Sometimes it’s not cheating at all… A championship for small saloons
A new guy arrived (a young lad - previously in karts), never driven one of these little cars before, and almost blitzed the field. Within 3 races, he’s on the podium, with a novice sticker on the back! 2 races after that, he’s winning or 2nd every time out. Much commenting about legality of the car etc.… Checks were done and all was well.
A story was made about the eligibility chap being in the back pocket of the new driver or knows him from elsewhere. Total rubbish. This was getting into really heated arguments in the paddock and pit lane etc... All good stuff…
The main creator of the arguments was at Silverstone for testing on a Friday, and the new guy happened to be there as well. The eligibility guy turned up a day early to watch the testing. Another argument in the pit lane about cheating ensues… new driver says “OK then, I’ll go out in your car, and you go out in mine”. This is acceptable to both parties.
New driver goes out and is nearly a second a lap faster in the other guys car than his! He comes back in and tells the other driver what he needs to change on set up to make it go even quicker. Other driver alters the setup, goes out in his own car and is half a second faster than previously. At the driver’s briefing on race day, other driver stood up, apologised for creating a lot of bad feeling and wants it to be known that the new driver is very quick indeed and should be watched by all!
More stories please, some of these show incredible ingenuity but are also
If anyone hasn't watched it, Dale Earnhardt Jr does a video version of his pod cast and in one episode he talks to Darrell Waltrip and some of the cheating that went on in Nascar.
Crash helmet made of lead to add weight
Radio made of lead to add weight
Lead shot in the frame rails
There is more and it's a good episode to watch or listen to and again shows a lot of ingenuity
If anyone hasn't watched it, Dale Earnhardt Jr does a video version of his pod cast and in one episode he talks to Darrell Waltrip and some of the cheating that went on in Nascar.
Crash helmet made of lead to add weight
Radio made of lead to add weight
Lead shot in the frame rails
There is more and it's a good episode to watch or listen to and again shows a lot of ingenuity
bucksmanuk said:
This is one I sadly didn’t see, but is now infamous in the annals of scrutineering history, some reading this will already know who the relevant parties are…
Silverstone, Big event, Historic type vehicles, 60’s sports cars, lots of MGBs, and MGB type engined vehicles.
Considerable disquiet was in the paddock at some people romping away down the straights when everyone should be running 1800- 1850 cc MGB engines. Lots of finger pointing at lots of people. With the agreement of the organising club, it was decided that the whole Parc Ferme of MGB engined cars would be checked for capacity. This knowledge was known to just 4 people, before it was announced. This involved over 22 cars.
The eligibility chap asked everyone to lift their bonnets, and all were expecting carburettor checks, minor inspection stuff…no….take the heads off for capacity checking – NOW!. Competitors who were legal were more than happy that this was happening, and went off for the relevant tools.
If people didn’t want to do it there and then, they could do it elsewhere/later with a sealed engine, or drive out of Parc Ferme and refuse to have their car inspected and thereby removing themselves from the results. 5 cleared off immediately and the drivers were never seen competing again…
Out of the 22 cars, just 6 were legal, 1850 cc or less. Plenty were at 1940/1950, a few at 2030, and one at 2.1 litres, a figure thought impossible from a standard MGB block.
Sometimes it’s not cheating at all… A championship for small saloons
A new guy arrived (a young lad - previously in karts), never driven one of these little cars before, and almost blitzed the field. Within 3 races, he’s on the podium, with a novice sticker on the back! 2 races after that, he’s winning or 2nd every time out. Much commenting about legality of the car etc.… Checks were done and all was well.
A story was made about the eligibility chap being in the back pocket of the new driver or knows him from elsewhere. Total rubbish. This was getting into really heated arguments in the paddock and pit lane etc... All good stuff…
The main creator of the arguments was at Silverstone for testing on a Friday, and the new guy happened to be there as well. The eligibility guy turned up a day early to watch the testing. Another argument in the pit lane about cheating ensues… new driver says “OK then, I’ll go out in your car, and you go out in mine”. This is acceptable to both parties.
New driver goes out and is nearly a second a lap faster in the other guys car than his! He comes back in and tells the other driver what he needs to change on set up to make it go even quicker. Other driver alters the setup, goes out in his own car and is half a second faster than previously. At the driver’s briefing on race day, other driver stood up, apologised for creating a lot of bad feeling and wants it to be known that the new driver is very quick indeed and should be watched by all!
That 2nd account is brilliant! Silverstone, Big event, Historic type vehicles, 60’s sports cars, lots of MGBs, and MGB type engined vehicles.
Considerable disquiet was in the paddock at some people romping away down the straights when everyone should be running 1800- 1850 cc MGB engines. Lots of finger pointing at lots of people. With the agreement of the organising club, it was decided that the whole Parc Ferme of MGB engined cars would be checked for capacity. This knowledge was known to just 4 people, before it was announced. This involved over 22 cars.
The eligibility chap asked everyone to lift their bonnets, and all were expecting carburettor checks, minor inspection stuff…no….take the heads off for capacity checking – NOW!. Competitors who were legal were more than happy that this was happening, and went off for the relevant tools.
If people didn’t want to do it there and then, they could do it elsewhere/later with a sealed engine, or drive out of Parc Ferme and refuse to have their car inspected and thereby removing themselves from the results. 5 cleared off immediately and the drivers were never seen competing again…
Out of the 22 cars, just 6 were legal, 1850 cc or less. Plenty were at 1940/1950, a few at 2030, and one at 2.1 litres, a figure thought impossible from a standard MGB block.
Sometimes it’s not cheating at all… A championship for small saloons
A new guy arrived (a young lad - previously in karts), never driven one of these little cars before, and almost blitzed the field. Within 3 races, he’s on the podium, with a novice sticker on the back! 2 races after that, he’s winning or 2nd every time out. Much commenting about legality of the car etc.… Checks were done and all was well.
A story was made about the eligibility chap being in the back pocket of the new driver or knows him from elsewhere. Total rubbish. This was getting into really heated arguments in the paddock and pit lane etc... All good stuff…
The main creator of the arguments was at Silverstone for testing on a Friday, and the new guy happened to be there as well. The eligibility guy turned up a day early to watch the testing. Another argument in the pit lane about cheating ensues… new driver says “OK then, I’ll go out in your car, and you go out in mine”. This is acceptable to both parties.
New driver goes out and is nearly a second a lap faster in the other guys car than his! He comes back in and tells the other driver what he needs to change on set up to make it go even quicker. Other driver alters the setup, goes out in his own car and is half a second faster than previously. At the driver’s briefing on race day, other driver stood up, apologised for creating a lot of bad feeling and wants it to be known that the new driver is very quick indeed and should be watched by all!
ribiero said:
That 2nd account is brilliant!
Great story, having raced in a few spec championships have seen first hand how some drivers can turn up and just be quicker than almost everyone and in a legal car ( I know for sure as one was my old car which suddenly went from top 15 to top 3 - all down to the new driver !).Even at the basement level there are cheats.
I recall years ago I raced in autograss at the cheapest level, boggo Mini's Some cars were very quick others were well driven well prepared and quick.
I recall a couple of chaps turned up one season with nice motors, quick off the blocks and were both done for cheating within a few months, usually engine mods, but the fave was locked diffs which were not allowed.
Most would just trailer up if asked to do a diff test!
The closest we got was a bit of very rough porting on the heads and a think head gasket!!
I recall years ago I raced in autograss at the cheapest level, boggo Mini's Some cars were very quick others were well driven well prepared and quick.
I recall a couple of chaps turned up one season with nice motors, quick off the blocks and were both done for cheating within a few months, usually engine mods, but the fave was locked diffs which were not allowed.
Most would just trailer up if asked to do a diff test!
The closest we got was a bit of very rough porting on the heads and a think head gasket!!
ribiero said:
bucksmanuk said:
This is one I sadly didn’t see, but is now infamous in the annals of scrutineering history, some reading this will already know who the relevant parties are…
Silverstone, Big event, Historic type vehicles, 60’s sports cars, lots of MGBs, and MGB type engined vehicles.
Considerable disquiet was in the paddock at some people romping away down the straights when everyone should be running 1800- 1850 cc MGB engines. Lots of finger pointing at lots of people. With the agreement of the organising club, it was decided that the whole Parc Ferme of MGB engined cars would be checked for capacity. This knowledge was known to just 4 people, before it was announced. This involved over 22 cars.
The eligibility chap asked everyone to lift their bonnets, and all were expecting carburettor checks, minor inspection stuff…no….take the heads off for capacity checking – NOW!. Competitors who were legal were more than happy that this was happening, and went off for the relevant tools.
If people didn’t want to do it there and then, they could do it elsewhere/later with a sealed engine, or drive out of Parc Ferme and refuse to have their car inspected and thereby removing themselves from the results. 5 cleared off immediately and the drivers were never seen competing again…
Out of the 22 cars, just 6 were legal, 1850 cc or less. Plenty were at 1940/1950, a few at 2030, and one at 2.1 litres, a figure thought impossible from a standard MGB block.
Sometimes it’s not cheating at all… A championship for small saloons
A new guy arrived (a young lad - previously in karts), never driven one of these little cars before, and almost blitzed the field. Within 3 races, he’s on the podium, with a novice sticker on the back! 2 races after that, he’s winning or 2nd every time out. Much commenting about legality of the car etc.… Checks were done and all was well.
A story was made about the eligibility chap being in the back pocket of the new driver or knows him from elsewhere. Total rubbish. This was getting into really heated arguments in the paddock and pit lane etc... All good stuff…
The main creator of the arguments was at Silverstone for testing on a Friday, and the new guy happened to be there as well. The eligibility guy turned up a day early to watch the testing. Another argument in the pit lane about cheating ensues… new driver says “OK then, I’ll go out in your car, and you go out in mine”. This is acceptable to both parties.
New driver goes out and is nearly a second a lap faster in the other guys car than his! He comes back in and tells the other driver what he needs to change on set up to make it go even quicker. Other driver alters the setup, goes out in his own car and is half a second faster than previously. At the driver’s briefing on race day, other driver stood up, apologised for creating a lot of bad feeling and wants it to be known that the new driver is very quick indeed and should be watched by all!
That 2nd account is brilliant! Silverstone, Big event, Historic type vehicles, 60’s sports cars, lots of MGBs, and MGB type engined vehicles.
Considerable disquiet was in the paddock at some people romping away down the straights when everyone should be running 1800- 1850 cc MGB engines. Lots of finger pointing at lots of people. With the agreement of the organising club, it was decided that the whole Parc Ferme of MGB engined cars would be checked for capacity. This knowledge was known to just 4 people, before it was announced. This involved over 22 cars.
The eligibility chap asked everyone to lift their bonnets, and all were expecting carburettor checks, minor inspection stuff…no….take the heads off for capacity checking – NOW!. Competitors who were legal were more than happy that this was happening, and went off for the relevant tools.
If people didn’t want to do it there and then, they could do it elsewhere/later with a sealed engine, or drive out of Parc Ferme and refuse to have their car inspected and thereby removing themselves from the results. 5 cleared off immediately and the drivers were never seen competing again…
Out of the 22 cars, just 6 were legal, 1850 cc or less. Plenty were at 1940/1950, a few at 2030, and one at 2.1 litres, a figure thought impossible from a standard MGB block.
Sometimes it’s not cheating at all… A championship for small saloons
A new guy arrived (a young lad - previously in karts), never driven one of these little cars before, and almost blitzed the field. Within 3 races, he’s on the podium, with a novice sticker on the back! 2 races after that, he’s winning or 2nd every time out. Much commenting about legality of the car etc.… Checks were done and all was well.
A story was made about the eligibility chap being in the back pocket of the new driver or knows him from elsewhere. Total rubbish. This was getting into really heated arguments in the paddock and pit lane etc... All good stuff…
The main creator of the arguments was at Silverstone for testing on a Friday, and the new guy happened to be there as well. The eligibility guy turned up a day early to watch the testing. Another argument in the pit lane about cheating ensues… new driver says “OK then, I’ll go out in your car, and you go out in mine”. This is acceptable to both parties.
New driver goes out and is nearly a second a lap faster in the other guys car than his! He comes back in and tells the other driver what he needs to change on set up to make it go even quicker. Other driver alters the setup, goes out in his own car and is half a second faster than previously. At the driver’s briefing on race day, other driver stood up, apologised for creating a lot of bad feeling and wants it to be known that the new driver is very quick indeed and should be watched by all!
Thread resurrection for the good ol' NASCAR boys.
Want to improve the aero of a car with open windows and safety nets?
A webbed glove to block off as much of the window netting as possible has to be one of the more bizarre things I've heard in a few years!
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a60057737/the-ch...
Want to improve the aero of a car with open windows and safety nets?
A webbed glove to block off as much of the window netting as possible has to be one of the more bizarre things I've heard in a few years!
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a60057737/the-ch...
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