Interesting F1 "Rain Master" stats
Discussion
CampDavid said:
4rephill said:
A more basic comparision:
Ayrton Senna:
Years in F1: 10 years (1984 - 1994)
World Drivers Chamionships: 3 (1988, 1990, 1991)
End of F1 career: Dead. Failed to negotiate the Tamburello corner at the San Marino GP 1st May 1994 and hit the wall.
Michael Scumacher:
Years in F1: 15 years (1991 - 2006)
World Drivers Championships: 7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
End of career: Alive. Managed to negotiate the Tamburello corner at the San Marino GP 1st May 1994 and did not hit the wall.
So in summary:
Ayrton Senna: 3 World Championships and dead.
Michael Schumacher: 7 World Championships and alive.
Think that tells Me all I need to know really.
Possibly the most idiotic post I've read all year.Ayrton Senna:
Years in F1: 10 years (1984 - 1994)
World Drivers Chamionships: 3 (1988, 1990, 1991)
End of F1 career: Dead. Failed to negotiate the Tamburello corner at the San Marino GP 1st May 1994 and hit the wall.
Michael Scumacher:
Years in F1: 15 years (1991 - 2006)
World Drivers Championships: 7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
End of career: Alive. Managed to negotiate the Tamburello corner at the San Marino GP 1st May 1994 and did not hit the wall.
So in summary:
Ayrton Senna: 3 World Championships and dead.
Michael Schumacher: 7 World Championships and alive.
Think that tells Me all I need to know really.
Greeny said:
CampDavid said:
4rephill said:
A more basic comparision:
Ayrton Senna:
Years in F1: 10 years (1984 - 1994)
World Drivers Chamionships: 3 (1988, 1990, 1991)
End of F1 career: Dead. Failed to negotiate the Tamburello corner at the San Marino GP 1st May 1994 and hit the wall.
Michael Scumacher:
Years in F1: 15 years (1991 - 2006)
World Drivers Championships: 7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
End of career: Alive. Managed to negotiate the Tamburello corner at the San Marino GP 1st May 1994 and did not hit the wall.
So in summary:
Ayrton Senna: 3 World Championships and dead.
Michael Schumacher: 7 World Championships and alive.
Think that tells Me all I need to know really.
Possibly the most idiotic post I've read all year.Ayrton Senna:
Years in F1: 10 years (1984 - 1994)
World Drivers Chamionships: 3 (1988, 1990, 1991)
End of F1 career: Dead. Failed to negotiate the Tamburello corner at the San Marino GP 1st May 1994 and hit the wall.
Michael Scumacher:
Years in F1: 15 years (1991 - 2006)
World Drivers Championships: 7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
End of career: Alive. Managed to negotiate the Tamburello corner at the San Marino GP 1st May 1994 and did not hit the wall.
So in summary:
Ayrton Senna: 3 World Championships and dead.
Michael Schumacher: 7 World Championships and alive.
Think that tells Me all I need to know really.
_dobbo_ said:
Mini1275, I wish you'd occasionally just say what you are thinking instead of dancing around your point so much.
Ok....i think Hamilton is the best , For years M.S had no "real" opposition, i think if you put him in an F1 car now his rain stats would be no where near as good as he would be against Hamilton, Vettel etc, Senna on the other hand...i'm not sure what the results would be against LH, SV etc in the wet Edited by Mini1275 on Wednesday 9th December 13:32
[quote=mattikake]
...No surprise Senna is ontop. But he is ontop by miles with only 1 bad race of 20 - in Spain '92.quote]
I was at this race and Senna performed a perfect 360 right in front of us, dipping the clutch and reving the arse off it as he went round, then charging off. Brilliant stuff.
The circuit was brand new then and there was no grass anywhere just bare earth. You can imagine what the campsite was like.
...No surprise Senna is ontop. But he is ontop by miles with only 1 bad race of 20 - in Spain '92.quote]
I was at this race and Senna performed a perfect 360 right in front of us, dipping the clutch and reving the arse off it as he went round, then charging off. Brilliant stuff.
The circuit was brand new then and there was no grass anywhere just bare earth. You can imagine what the campsite was like.
CampDavid said:
mattikake said:
Hamilton's stats for talent purposes, include Belgium '08 as a win, simply because we all know it was and includes the likes of Nurburgring '07 where he aquaplaned off with about 5 others, but got going a lap down and finished 9th. Had he retired his stats would be better. His stats also include China '07 as his fault, not the teams'. Still, if he wins his next wet race, which is a distinct possibility, he will surpass Schumacher.
Modifying the stats totally loses the credibility, especially as you still haven't grasped the obvious reason for the Belgium DQ, or the fact that as a driver he's responsible for monitoring his tyres.Hamilton crossed the line first in Belgium. These stats are about who was the best in the rain, not who racked up the most points in the rain. A world of difference.
Anyway, the reason for Belgium DSQ was obvious - the Stewards are idiots!
Evangelion said:
Shame you missed out Damon Hill, I seem to remember him being quite good in the wet.
I didn't but I can easily work that one out.Evangelion said:
And what about Ascari, Fangio, Moss, Clark, Stewart and Lauda?
Yes I know, but the wet race info actually only goes back to 1983 (and to 1979 by my own personal knowledge). If you can find out what races were wet and the reason behind crashes in these (not that it just says "spin" or "collision" on the official stats) from 1950 onwards, then I would love to do it for my own knowledge.My bet is Clark and JYS are close behind Senna.
mattikake said:
Evangelion said:
Shame you missed out Damon Hill, I seem to remember him being quite good in the wet.
I didn't but I can easily work that one out.Evangelion said:
And what about Ascari, Fangio, Moss, Clark, Stewart and Lauda?
Yes I know, but the wet race info actually only goes back to 1983 (and to 1979 by my own personal knowledge). If you can find out what races were wet and the reason behind crashes in these (not that it just says "spin" or "collision" on the official stats) from 1950 onwards, then I would love to do it for my own knowledge.My bet is Clark and JYS are close behind Senna.
Evangelion said:
Shame you missed out Damon Hill, I seem to remember him being quite good in the wet.
Lapped Prost in an identical car.From memory, so don't beat me up, I think he beat Prost twice, and both times it was wet. Wasn't he the only one on the same lap as Senna at Donington?
And from an earlier post, I was unaware that the Senna crash was through a mechanical failure. Wasn't the 'best guess' putting too much demand onto cool tyres?
But I reckon that the only thing you can prove with statistics is that they don't prove anything.
Derek Smith said:
Evangelion said:
Shame you missed out Damon Hill, I seem to remember him being quite good in the wet.
Lapped Prost in an identical car.From memory, so don't beat me up, I think he beat Prost twice, and both times it was wet. Wasn't he the only one on the same lap as Senna at Donington?
And from an earlier post, I was unaware that the Senna crash was through a mechanical failure. Wasn't the 'best guess' putting too much demand onto cool tyres?
But I reckon that the only thing you can prove with statistics is that they don't prove anything.
4rephill said:
A more basic comparision:
Ayrton Senna:
Years in F1: 10 years (1984 - 1994)
World Drivers Chamionships: 3 (1988, 1990, 1991)
End of F1 career: Dead. Failed to negotiate the Tamburello corner at the San Marino GP 1st May 1994 and hit the wall.
Michael Scumacher:
Years in F1: 15 years (1991 - 2006)
World Drivers Championships: 7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
End of career: Alive. Managed to negotiate the Tamburello corner at the San Marino GP 1st May 1994 and did not hit the wall.
So in summary:
Ayrton Senna: 3 World Championships and dead.
Michael Schumacher: 7 World Championships and alive.
Think that tells Me all I need to know really.
Biggest dhead on the internet? Probably.Ayrton Senna:
Years in F1: 10 years (1984 - 1994)
World Drivers Chamionships: 3 (1988, 1990, 1991)
End of F1 career: Dead. Failed to negotiate the Tamburello corner at the San Marino GP 1st May 1994 and hit the wall.
Michael Scumacher:
Years in F1: 15 years (1991 - 2006)
World Drivers Championships: 7 (1994, 1995, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004)
End of career: Alive. Managed to negotiate the Tamburello corner at the San Marino GP 1st May 1994 and did not hit the wall.
So in summary:
Ayrton Senna: 3 World Championships and dead.
Michael Schumacher: 7 World Championships and alive.
Think that tells Me all I need to know really.
Mini1275 said:
Ooops maybe i'm wrong, i just thought it was a failure of the brakes or steering....although i might be incorrect .
The enquiry focused on a 'repair' to the steering column although the conclusion was that this was not the cause of the accident. I seem to remember a quote from Damon Hill to the effect that it was in all probability cool tyres that robbed us of Senna.Syndrome said:
No matter how much I see the onboard of the crash, I can't help thinking he looks like his head has dropped, as if he's momentarily blacked out, as he gets to the middle of Tamburello. It was well documented that Senna had a habit of holding his breath in high G turns.
There was that theory as well wasn't there. Apparently he would hold his breath for the opening lap as he claimed it heightened his senses. I always thought the reason for Senna's crash was because of the safey car period, cooler tyres, lower pressures, lower ride height. The car grounded going around the corner, no air flow under the car, no pressure difference, no downforce. I always thought the steering column was broken in the crash.
mchammer89 said:
I always thought the reason for Senna's crash was because of the safey car period, cooler tyres, lower pressures, lower ride height. The car grounded going around the corner, no air flow under the car, no pressure difference, no downforce. I always thought the steering column was broken in the crash.
You could be right http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ayrton_SennaInteresting read.
Edited by Mini1275 on Wednesday 9th December 20:29
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