The Land and Water Speed Records Thread

[snowy slopes]

Life Saab Itch said:

Munter said:

Life Saab Itch said:

DJC, I have a similar ambition to you. I remember a thread about Bluebird on here where (I think) Sam68 said that he had a design drawn up that was revolutionary and could be capable of 400mph. It sounded very interesting.

I would love to have a crack at it, I mean, if a copy of Bluebird was made from Carbon with some safety structures built in, surely it would beat the current WSR?

What sort of speeds are these things hitting?

I would imagine that they would be lucky to get to half the WSR, so about 150ish. I am happy to be corrected though.

AFAIK unlimited hydroplanes can hit 200mph, but thats with a limiter, so maybe 250mph flat out, but the idea of trying to get to 250mph in one of those makes me go cold, they have a tendency to flip over, and at that speed i dont hold out much hope for your survival TBH

[chevronb37]

Graham said:

On a slightly different tack I'm part of a team looking to take a 1950s Austin healey sprite shell and an a series block. And break 200mph

Made more complicated as we want to achieve that with 2 drivers.

Early planning at the mo but we are hopping for 2012

Made me think of this Healey which they reproduced recently to replicate some speed records at Millbrook, though I forget all the guys involved. This photo was taken at Race Retro last year.



re Thrust SSC/Thunderbolt. Without the cars to hand, I don't honestly know. An RR R engine is 750kg but with the massive drivetrain and lack of composite technology, it would've been enormously heavy and the sheer girth of the thing...! Having said that, SSC is a behemoth so perhaps my statement was pure story-telling. Certainly when compared to the scalpel of the Railton Mobil Special, Thunderbolt seems crazy though!

I love the fact that CN7 did a lap of Goodwood back in the early 1960s. Imagine going down to Thruxton today and Bloodhound doing a tour just to get the public involved in the project - brilliant.



While I have a particular admiration for British endeavours in record-breaking but Breedlove's Spirit of America is so elegant and so beautiful.

[Life Saab Itch]

The book I mentioned earlier is this:

Leap into Legend

Steve Holter

ISBN 1-85058-804-X

It is a superb read, highly recommended.

[RB Will]

snowy slopes said:

Life Saab Itch said:

Munter said:

Life Saab Itch said:

DJC, I have a similar ambition to you. I remember a thread about Bluebird on here where (I think) Sam68 said that he had a design drawn up that was revolutionary and could be capable of 400mph. It sounded very interesting.

I would love to have a crack at it, I mean, if a copy of Bluebird was made from Carbon with some safety structures built in, surely it would beat the current WSR?

What sort of speeds are these things hitting?

I would imagine that they would be lucky to get to half the WSR, so about 150ish. I am happy to be corrected though.

Drag boats have hit 259mph over a quarter mile, no sure they could sustain that pace for the WSR distance though http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrav2ceQ6w4&fea...
AFAIK unlimited hydroplanes can hit 200mph, but thats with a limiter, so maybe 250mph flat out, but the idea of trying to get to 250mph in one of those makes me go cold, they have a tendency to flip over, and at that speed i dont hold out much hope for your survival TBH

[IforB]

FourWheelDrift said:

dr_gn said:

chevronb37 said:

George Eyston's Thunderbolt. The biggest, heaviest, most ridiculous LSR car of them all.

Surely Thrust SSC is bigger and heavier than Eyston's Thunderbolt?

Not sure myself, SSC is big but so was Thunderbolt add the industrial engineering of the time and it would be very heavy as well.

Dimensions wise SSC is probably longer and wider but in terms of overall mass Thunderbolt might have the edge.

According to Wiki, Thrust SSC weighed in at 10 tonnes, whereas Thunderbolt was a mere 7...

Both are/were monsters though!

Excellent thread BTW.

[Life Saab Itch]

Ok, as this seems to be a popular topic, would this be a good time to suggest a mini-PH meet when they get Bluebird running again at Coniston?

I was planning on making the trip anyway...

[snowy slopes]

Life Saab Itch said:

Ok, as this seems to be a popular topic, would this be a good time to suggest a mini-PH meet when they get Bluebird running again at Coniston?

I was planning on making the trip anyway...

I would love to mate, depending on finances though

[Life Saab Itch]

IforB said:

FourWheelDrift said:

dr_gn said:

chevronb37 said:

George Eyston's Thunderbolt. The biggest, heaviest, most ridiculous LSR car of them all.

Surely Thrust SSC is bigger and heavier than Eyston's Thunderbolt?

Not sure myself, SSC is big but so was Thunderbolt add the industrial engineering of the time and it would be very heavy as well.

Dimensions wise SSC is probably longer and wider but in terms of overall mass Thunderbolt might have the edge.

According to Wiki, Thrust SSC weighed in at 10 tonnes, whereas Thunderbolt was a mere 7...

Both are/were monsters though!

Excellent thread BTW.

I know that it's not going to be a 30% difference, but are we talking tons, tonns or tonnes for Thunderbolt?

I can't imagine that they used tonnes in the '30s.

[Tyre Smoke]

I too am totally captivated by the whole thing. The Campbells and Bluebirds particularly. I was up in the lakes in the summer and spent a happy couple of days in and around Coniston. DC's grave is fascinating, if that's the right word. Sitting quite unassumingly in the corner of the graveyard.

[IforB]

Life Saab Itch said:

IforB said:

FourWheelDrift said:

dr_gn said:

chevronb37 said:

George Eyston's Thunderbolt. The biggest, heaviest, most ridiculous LSR car of them all.

Surely Thrust SSC is bigger and heavier than Eyston's Thunderbolt?

Not sure myself, SSC is big but so was Thunderbolt add the industrial engineering of the time and it would be very heavy as well.

Dimensions wise SSC is probably longer and wider but in terms of overall mass Thunderbolt might have the edge.

According to Wiki, Thrust SSC weighed in at 10 tonnes, whereas Thunderbolt was a mere 7...

Both are/were monsters though!

Excellent thread BTW.

I know that it's not going to be a 30% difference, but are we talking tons, tonns or tonnes for Thunderbolt?

I can't imagine that they used tonnes in the '30s.

If it was 7 long tons, then that'd be roughly 7.1 tonnes. If someone used the US short ton (which would be surprising given the origin of the car!) then 7 tons comes in at 6.4ish tonnes.

It's in Wiki as tons, whereas SSC's weight is down as tonnes, but there's not a lot of difference really. SSC was quite a bit bigger. Gas turbine engines might be relatively light for the power produced, but they still weigh an awful lot!

[DJC]

Im always wary of "revolutionary" designs, even from within inside the industry because they are always always always an absolute bh to actually develop. There are sound principle and you dont need to be too revolutionary with the current hull knowledge. The aero work is where Im more interested as its keep the boat on the surface and not a flying deathrap that Id want to concentrate on. I can line up any number of RR/AEC engine/FADECs to provide more than enough grunt for the speeds needed.

[Life Saab Itch]

DJC said:

Im always wary of "revolutionary" designs, even from within inside the industry because they are always always always an absolute bh to actually develop. There are sound principle and you dont need to be too revolutionary with the current hull knowledge. The aero work is where Im more interested as its keep the boat on the surface and not a flying deathrap that Id want to concentrate on. I can line up any number of RR/AEC engine/FADECs to provide more than enough grunt for the speeds needed.

I have often thought that some kind of (maybe active, maybe human controlled) aero would be needed, even if it was just trim flaps on the front and rear to try and prevent a flip.

The cockpit could be made so much safer now though...

It would probably be prudent to involve a Formula One team with that unless you had the experience yourself with deformable and non-deformable structures.

I have often wondered why the planing shoes were on the inside of the sponsons on Bluebird, I would have thought that the outside would provide a more stable footprint, not that that was a problem as DC seemed to be able to make the 180 degree turns on Coniston at speed.

Would an ejector seat be prudent?

[Tyre Smoke]

Life Saab Itch said:

Would an ejector seat be prudent?

Wouldn't have helped DC, he was airborne and flipping backwards when he applied the water brake, so quick was the flip. There wouldn't have been time.

[Life Saab Itch]

Tyre Smoke said:

Life Saab Itch said:

Would an ejector seat be prudent?

Wouldn't have helped DC, he was airborne and flipping backwards when he applied the water brake, so quick was the flip. There wouldn't have been time.

I don't know about that, he was at 45 degrees for about 2 seconds before it properly flipped. He had time to radio back to the team about it. If he had had the option, I think he might have taken it.

[woof]

All these records are snail pace compared to the unmanned railed vehicle (rocket sled) 6,462 mph record. Yep 6,462mph !!!

[snowy slopes]

woof said:

All these records are snail pace compared to the unmanned railed vehicle (rocket sled) 6,462 mph record. Yep 6,462mph !!!

Thta's true, but technically it isnt on land though is it, it's on rails

[Tyre Smoke]

Life Saab Itch said:

Tyre Smoke said:

Life Saab Itch said:

Would an ejector seat be prudent?

Wouldn't have helped DC, he was airborne and flipping backwards when he applied the water brake, so quick was the flip. There wouldn't have been time.

I don't know about that, he was at 45 degrees for about 2 seconds before it properly flipped. He had time to radio back to the team about it. If he had had the option, I think he might have taken it.

"I've gone! Unghhh" is all he had time to say. He applied the water brake when he realised what was happening, but the speed of the accident meant this was already too late as he was in the air. No time to eject safely.

footage with radio

[Eric Mc]

Would a Zero/Zero seat have been available to the team at the time the car was designed and builr - early to mid 1960s?

They were fairly rare in military aircraft back then as far as I know.

Edited by Eric Mc on Saturday 22 January 16:10

[dr_gn]

Tyre Smoke said:

Life Saab Itch said:

Tyre Smoke said:

Life Saab Itch said:

Would an ejector seat be prudent?

Wouldn't have helped DC, he was airborne and flipping backwards when he applied the water brake, so quick was the flip. There wouldn't have been time.

I don't know about that, he was at 45 degrees for about 2 seconds before it properly flipped. He had time to radio back to the team about it. If he had had the option, I think he might have taken it.

"I've gone! Unghhh" is all he had time to say. He applied the water brake when he realised what was happening, but the speed of the accident meant this was already too late as he was in the air. No time to eject safely.

footage with radio

There is a good fractional second sequence of events in the current diary entry here:

http://www.bluebirdproject.com/Bluebirdproject/fra...

[Life Saab Itch]

dr_gn said:

Tyre Smoke said:

Life Saab Itch said:

Tyre Smoke said:

Life Saab Itch said:

Would an ejector seat be prudent?

Wouldn't have helped DC, he was airborne and flipping backwards when he applied the water brake, so quick was the flip. There wouldn't have been time.

I don't know about that, he was at 45 degrees for about 2 seconds before it properly flipped. He had time to radio back to the team about it. If he had had the option, I think he might have taken it.

"I've gone! Unghhh" is all he had time to say. He applied the water brake when he realised what was happening, but the speed of the accident meant this was already too late as he was in the air. No time to eject safely.

footage with radio

There is a good fractional second sequence of events in the current diary entry here:

http://www.bluebirdproject.com/Bluebirdproject/fra...

Bluebird website said:

5.21 As a precursor to her final flight, the bows of Bluebird are now out of the water. She continued in this attitude for about 2 seconds before the air final got under her and she left the water for the last time. (Again the speed should be about 10mph faster)