Discussion
GordonL said:
More of a rant than anything... is this time of year "Be a **** in the Highlands" week? I live in a very quiet little spot, down a (private) single track road, with about 10 houses, there's a wee beach that is quite lovely, think wild otters, seals and lots of seabirds. One of my neighbours supplements her pension by having a small grassy area beside the beach which she rents out per night for motorhomes/campervans (no tents, no cars with council tent boxes).
Generally the people who come to it are no bother, but around once a month we get some dirty scum crapping in the bushes. It's a problem for me because my dogs like to get amongst it and roll in it/eat it, with obvious issues. There's generally a bit of extra rubbish on the beach too. It's been getting steadily worse since the Pandemic and the explosion of camper vans/motorhomes that seemed to generate.
Over the past 5 days though we've had 3 lots of crapping in the bushes, loads of rubbish left behind, we're talking portable barbecues, chicken carcasses, BBQ starter fluid bottles, large amounts of general rubbish including used toilet paper (of course!). Just to add salt to this, they've been sneaking in after dark and leaving early in the morning, so my neighbour has been getting stiffed for the 10 quid a night she'd normally get into the bargain.
Luckily I managed to confront one charming group who had left 2 full bin bags behind them, and "persuade" them to take their rubbish away with them, but generally I have to clear up all the s
t myself. Hopefully before my dogs get into it.
Just wondering if other locals are finding this issue just now or if we're just "lucky".
You're not alone. It's quiet now but the minor road that runs up the western side of Glen Feshie in the Cairngorms - just 2km from where I live - suffers all the usual campervan bin-bag detritus at the roadside during the summer months. There's piles of sGenerally the people who come to it are no bother, but around once a month we get some dirty scum crapping in the bushes. It's a problem for me because my dogs like to get amongst it and roll in it/eat it, with obvious issues. There's generally a bit of extra rubbish on the beach too. It's been getting steadily worse since the Pandemic and the explosion of camper vans/motorhomes that seemed to generate.
Over the past 5 days though we've had 3 lots of crapping in the bushes, loads of rubbish left behind, we're talking portable barbecues, chicken carcasses, BBQ starter fluid bottles, large amounts of general rubbish including used toilet paper (of course!). Just to add salt to this, they've been sneaking in after dark and leaving early in the morning, so my neighbour has been getting stiffed for the 10 quid a night she'd normally get into the bargain.
Luckily I managed to confront one charming group who had left 2 full bin bags behind them, and "persuade" them to take their rubbish away with them, but generally I have to clear up all the s
t myself. Hopefully before my dogs get into it. Just wondering if other locals are finding this issue just now or if we're just "lucky".
t too but they're relatively easy to spot since they're topped off with a Kleenexe or two. Ditto other popular/scenic locations in our area. The Cairngorms National Park authority are attempting to address the issue in the honey pot areas but lack the resources and enforcement teeth to deal with it properly. Given burgeoning campervan ownership/use I've got a feeling this problem isn't going to go away any time soon.GordonL said:
More of a rant than anything...
I'm not from the Highlands, I'm from Ayrshire however I see this mindset from van owners all the time.The Ayrshire coast has loads of places from Largs to Girvan where you can park up and go for a nice walk. The last 10 years these type of locations are now overrun with the 'van-life' folk and the evidence of their visit.
The land owners and authorities are having to spend a fortune to put up barriers, obstacles and no parking signs to try and control it. The island of Great Cumbrae aka Millport is now covered with 'no overnight parking' signs.
GetCarter said:
Patrick Bateman said:
Would it be unfair to say this problem has become exponentially worse since the start of covid?
It's an assumption but I wouldn't be surprised.
It's got worse since the NC500 launch, and worse again since Covid.It's an assumption but I wouldn't be surprised.
A proliferation of mobile c**p factories doesn't help.
It's dreadful down here in south Lochaber too, and getting worse. Regularly bbq remains and 'poo flowers' beside the B863 (a poo flower being a human turd surrounded by tissues resembling an array of petals). The Loch Linnhe picnic stop has the gates locked more often than open due to faeces. A lot of Glen Etive is just trashed now. Even had 'van life' tts attempting to overnight on my driveway.
ts attempting to overnight on my driveway. Patrick Bateman said:
Would it be unfair to say this problem has become exponentially worse since the start of covid?
It's an assumption but I wouldn't be surprised.
Yes, no doubt about it. However the overall numbers of motor homes and camper vans have massively increased at the same time, so it’s probably a double whammy. It's an assumption but I wouldn't be surprised.
sjabrown said:
It's dreadful down here in south Lochaber too, and getting worse. Regularly bbq remains and 'poo flowers' beside the B863 (a poo flower being a human turd surrounded by tissues resembling an array of petals). The Loch Linnhe picnic stop has the gates locked more often than open due to faeces. A lot of Glen Etive is just trashed now. Even had 'van life' tts attempting to overnight on my driveway.
Remind me to ignore the Interflora lady at the door if you ever send me flowers ts attempting to overnight on my driveway. 
It has become worse, it was starting before Covid, but has accelerated. There is a strong 'van life' culture that is disrespectful of the places and people visited, because in my view many do not know any different. We have not educated, and if being particularly generalising, if home is a stty, run down town or city, then you treat the rest of the world through that lens.
One of the deepest cultures is around "Right to Roam" which does not exist - a right to responsible access does, and it does not extend to vehicles or roadside camping. This means that many 'van lifers' expect do do and go where they want.
From experience, there is a strong connection between criminality and some of the worst behaviour.
However, this is nothing new. 5 years of working on Loch Tay saw us deal with all of this back in 2010's - from trees and gates being burned, roads blocked with vehicles (because "no one uses lanes like this"), to issue of human waste and rubbish, tents and encampments being left, violence and threats to locals. It was rife. Each year I hosted a boat based clean up - and our record was 2.4tons of rubbish in 2 days...
My issue is that polite signs and blocking places does not solve the problem. It moves it on, it is ineffective to someone who already has no respect, it creates hostility. We have to educate, to call to a higher standard, to support remote places and see this low-level criminality and disruption as a priority.
The practicalities of challenging it are staggering. I had a morning where I ended up helping police out clear a 'camp' of a couple of tents and vehicles. It took two break down trucks, 8 - 10 officers in half a dozen police vehicles, 4 volunteers from local community, two police stations which were 35 miles from where the issue was, and a good long morning on site and goodness knows how long off site. And this was for 5 drunkards in two vans, a car and two tents. And of course after we cleared up carefully under supervision of the police, both the tent owners claimed that they had left an iphone in each tent which was now missing.....I was told that it left only sergeants in police stations for 35-50 miles in every direction, so no police available to deal with anything else...
tty, run down town or city, then you treat the rest of the world through that lens. One of the deepest cultures is around "Right to Roam" which does not exist - a right to responsible access does, and it does not extend to vehicles or roadside camping. This means that many 'van lifers' expect do do and go where they want.
From experience, there is a strong connection between criminality and some of the worst behaviour.
However, this is nothing new. 5 years of working on Loch Tay saw us deal with all of this back in 2010's - from trees and gates being burned, roads blocked with vehicles (because "no one uses lanes like this"), to issue of human waste and rubbish, tents and encampments being left, violence and threats to locals. It was rife. Each year I hosted a boat based clean up - and our record was 2.4tons of rubbish in 2 days...
My issue is that polite signs and blocking places does not solve the problem. It moves it on, it is ineffective to someone who already has no respect, it creates hostility. We have to educate, to call to a higher standard, to support remote places and see this low-level criminality and disruption as a priority.
The practicalities of challenging it are staggering. I had a morning where I ended up helping police out clear a 'camp' of a couple of tents and vehicles. It took two break down trucks, 8 - 10 officers in half a dozen police vehicles, 4 volunteers from local community, two police stations which were 35 miles from where the issue was, and a good long morning on site and goodness knows how long off site. And this was for 5 drunkards in two vans, a car and two tents. And of course after we cleared up carefully under supervision of the police, both the tent owners claimed that they had left an iphone in each tent which was now missing.....I was told that it left only sergeants in police stations for 35-50 miles in every direction, so no police available to deal with anything else...
Edited by POIDH on Friday 5th December 09:34
POIDH said:
It has become worse, it was starting before Covid, but has accelerated. There is a strong 'van life' culture that is disrespectful of the places and people visited, because in my view many do not know any different. We have not educated, and if being particularly generalising, if home is a stty, run down town or city, then you treat the rest of the world through that lens.
One of the deepest cultures is around "Right to Roam" which does not exist - a right to responsible access does, and it does not extend to vehicles or roadside camping. This means that many 'van lifers' expect do do and go where they want.
From experience, there is a strong connection between criminality and some of the worst behaviour.
However, this is nothing new. 5 years of working on Loch Tay saw us deal with all of this back in 2010's - from trees and gates being burned, roads blocked with vehicles (because "no one uses lanes like this"), to issue of human waste and rubbish, tents and encampments being left, violence and threats to locals. It was rife. Each year I hosted a boat based clean up - and our record was 2.4tons of rubbish in 2 days...
My issue is that polite signs and blocking places does not solve the problem. It moves it on, it is ineffective to someone who already has no respect, it creates hostility. We have to educate, to call to a higher standard, to support remote places and see this low-level criminality and disruption as a priority.
The practicalities of challenging it are staggering. I had a morning where I ended up helping police out clear a 'camp' of a couple of tents and vehicles. It took two break down trucks, 8 - 10 officers in half a dozen police vehicles, 4 volunteers from local community, two police stations which were 35 miles from where the issue was, and a good long morning on site and goodness knows how long off site. And this was for 5 drunkards in two vans, a car and two tents. And of course after we cleared up carefully under supervision of the police, both the tent owners claimed that they had left an iphone in each tent which was now missing.....I was told that it left only sergeants in police stations for 35-50 miles in every direction, so no police available to deal with anything else...
Almost beyond belief, but an indictment of society as whole I’m afraid!tty, run down town or city, then you treat the rest of the world through that lens. One of the deepest cultures is around "Right to Roam" which does not exist - a right to responsible access does, and it does not extend to vehicles or roadside camping. This means that many 'van lifers' expect do do and go where they want.
From experience, there is a strong connection between criminality and some of the worst behaviour.
However, this is nothing new. 5 years of working on Loch Tay saw us deal with all of this back in 2010's - from trees and gates being burned, roads blocked with vehicles (because "no one uses lanes like this"), to issue of human waste and rubbish, tents and encampments being left, violence and threats to locals. It was rife. Each year I hosted a boat based clean up - and our record was 2.4tons of rubbish in 2 days...
My issue is that polite signs and blocking places does not solve the problem. It moves it on, it is ineffective to someone who already has no respect, it creates hostility. We have to educate, to call to a higher standard, to support remote places and see this low-level criminality and disruption as a priority.
The practicalities of challenging it are staggering. I had a morning where I ended up helping police out clear a 'camp' of a couple of tents and vehicles. It took two break down trucks, 8 - 10 officers in half a dozen police vehicles, 4 volunteers from local community, two police stations which were 35 miles from where the issue was, and a good long morning on site and goodness knows how long off site. And this was for 5 drunkards in two vans, a car and two tents. And of course after we cleared up carefully under supervision of the police, both the tent owners claimed that they had left an iphone in each tent which was now missing.....I was told that it left only sergeants in police stations for 35-50 miles in every direction, so no police available to deal with anything else...
Edited by POIDH on Friday 5th December 09:34
It (almost) puts me off coming back…..
Damp Logs said:
Almost beyond belief, but an indictment of society as whole I m afraid!
It (almost) puts me off coming back ..
And there is the problem. I am a Scottish resident and campervan owner - and I feel the pressure, worry that locals will not like/want you there and more. For me it has ended most of the very quite and respectful winter camps in the van that I have enjoyed, the only 'right' thing to do now is go to a campsite.It (almost) puts me off coming back ..
Of course the compounding factor in all this is lack of imagination - so many of the instagram vanlifers just follow each other round, pull up in the same layby, do the same thing. One post on social media with a location and 5 vans turn up the next weekend...
What's new pussycat? Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa - https://maps.app.goo.gl/3DL7STEV4mbqLWkY6
I can understand the frustration of the locals who have to endure the idiot visitors who don't respect their surroundings.
I have visited twice a year for the last 3 years and plan to make two more trips next year. But I go in my car and spend money in local hotels, eateries and plenty in filling stations!
All I leave behind is a bit of tyre rubber and some exhaust fumes, but I take away some fantastic memories.
I have visited twice a year for the last 3 years and plan to make two more trips next year. But I go in my car and spend money in local hotels, eateries and plenty in filling stations!
All I leave behind is a bit of tyre rubber and some exhaust fumes, but I take away some fantastic memories.
P675 said:
It annoys me also, went to Moffat in October and through Mennock Pass there was a few piles of rubbish bags and firepit remains, if you zoom in above the M here you can see how much. Just ridiculous, I wouldn't dream of littering anywhere.
Back to your planned route, if you’re on anything other than an adventure type bike I’d give Glen Loth a miss and head for Helmsdale instead. The road surface is shocking on the A9 side of the Glen and getting worse on the side down towards Kildonan. It used to be short cut to the A9 for us but not anymore. I only travel it in works vehicles now. Leggerly said:
Back to your planned route, if you re on anything other than an adventure type bike I d give Glen Loth a miss and head for Helmsdale instead. The road surface is shocking on the A9 side of the Glen and getting worse on the side down towards Kildonan. It used to be short cut to the A9 for us but not anymore. I only travel it in works vehicles now.
I scouted both roads out on Streetview and the Glen Loth one does look rough in places but the scenery and video potential look a lot better. Are we talking craters that need a 4x4, or just 15-20mph max? Looks gravelly but it might just be worn surface. I've been on some rough roads before and it's a bit easier to get around holes on the bike but more physically involved.For example in Ireland pretty much the entirety of Sheep's Head Peninsula and random roads in Beara Peninsula that were not enjoyable in the slightest but all part of the adventure
Ay yes, Irish back and A-roads work out suspension like nothing else, and then you get the 'is it two lane or one lane' round a blind bend with some hoofing great HGV coming at you, and then the 'I will follow this wee road here' to discover as much gravel as tarmac...
Mind, the views, beer and locals make up for it...
Mind, the views, beer and locals make up for it...
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