Abysmal Traffic Calming
Discussion
I don't have a picture of this one yet, but I have street view of the approximate location and a horror story.
This photo is while the village (A road) was a 30 zone.
Then the council put in a pedestrian crossing with traffic lights. Naturally, they decided that they needed to make a whole stretch through the village a 20 zone, and at the same time put in chicanes.
The worst of the aforementioned chicanes is on the left side of the road pictured, I believe roughly where the height restriction sign is (I'm too focused on the road to say exactly). And yes, this is on the approach to a blind hill on a corner.
I always approach this at 20 mph. It's an uphill struggle for my car (Skoda Citigo 60hp). Braking is much easier than accelerating. Hence a slower approach would not be appropriate. I'm young, so my reaction times are decent! I will approach in either 1st or 2nd gear - 1st has the advantage of quicker acceleration to 30 (here be the rev limiter), but 2nd gear means I don't need to shift if I need more speed (2nd will get me to 50). Also, 2nd gear is easier on the residents' ears.
Now, horror story time (no crash, fortunately). I was approaching this chicane in 2nd gear. The road ahead, as far as I could see, was clear. So I committed to the maneouver. Of course, Sod's law, there's an approaching delivery van/truck.. I think at about the speed limit. Appeared just after I'd committed.
To avoid a collision, I had a couple of options. I could hammer on the brakes and stop in the chicane. In this scenario, I'm dependent on the delivery driver responding appropriately. Or, I can accelerate through the chicane and clear it before he arrives. I have the acceleration to do this, but I need to keep my pedal on the metal.
I chose the latter. There was room to do it, and it didn't depend on the other driver stopping (who is potentially expecting me to accelerate through). I pulled the maneuver off cleanly, but there wasn't a lot of a margin to do this. I was also now doing ~40 mph. In a 20 zone. I slowed down, but can't help considering the situation if the other driver had been traveling faster. I think that I would have stopped, but would they? And then, I'm the one on the wrong side of the road...
Needless to say, the council have received a very angry letter emphasizing the speed I was forced to do by their scheme, and how had something gone wrong I could have lost control and ploughed into a child at 40 mph... I thought that the "think of the children" line would most affect them. I've seen SpeedWatch right on that stretch before. I really don't want the hassle of arguing something like this out in the courts when I have A level exams! Had there been a nice stripy van man, I'd have been in summons territory.
This photo is while the village (A road) was a 30 zone.
Then the council put in a pedestrian crossing with traffic lights. Naturally, they decided that they needed to make a whole stretch through the village a 20 zone, and at the same time put in chicanes.
The worst of the aforementioned chicanes is on the left side of the road pictured, I believe roughly where the height restriction sign is (I'm too focused on the road to say exactly). And yes, this is on the approach to a blind hill on a corner.
I always approach this at 20 mph. It's an uphill struggle for my car (Skoda Citigo 60hp). Braking is much easier than accelerating. Hence a slower approach would not be appropriate. I'm young, so my reaction times are decent! I will approach in either 1st or 2nd gear - 1st has the advantage of quicker acceleration to 30 (here be the rev limiter), but 2nd gear means I don't need to shift if I need more speed (2nd will get me to 50). Also, 2nd gear is easier on the residents' ears.
Now, horror story time (no crash, fortunately). I was approaching this chicane in 2nd gear. The road ahead, as far as I could see, was clear. So I committed to the maneouver. Of course, Sod's law, there's an approaching delivery van/truck.. I think at about the speed limit. Appeared just after I'd committed.
To avoid a collision, I had a couple of options. I could hammer on the brakes and stop in the chicane. In this scenario, I'm dependent on the delivery driver responding appropriately. Or, I can accelerate through the chicane and clear it before he arrives. I have the acceleration to do this, but I need to keep my pedal on the metal.
I chose the latter. There was room to do it, and it didn't depend on the other driver stopping (who is potentially expecting me to accelerate through). I pulled the maneuver off cleanly, but there wasn't a lot of a margin to do this. I was also now doing ~40 mph. In a 20 zone. I slowed down, but can't help considering the situation if the other driver had been traveling faster. I think that I would have stopped, but would they? And then, I'm the one on the wrong side of the road...
Needless to say, the council have received a very angry letter emphasizing the speed I was forced to do by their scheme, and how had something gone wrong I could have lost control and ploughed into a child at 40 mph... I thought that the "think of the children" line would most affect them. I've seen SpeedWatch right on that stretch before. I really don't want the hassle of arguing something like this out in the courts when I have A level exams! Had there been a nice stripy van man, I'd have been in summons territory.
Solocle said:
I don't have a picture of this one yet, but I have street view of the approximate location and a horror story.
This photo is while the village (A road) was a 30 zone.
Then the council put in a pedestrian crossing with traffic lights. Naturally, they decided that they needed to make a whole stretch through the village a 20 zone, and at the same time put in chicanes.
The worst of the aforementioned chicanes is on the left side of the road pictured, I believe roughly where the height restriction sign is (I'm too focused on the road to say exactly). And yes, this is on the approach to a blind hill on a corner.
I always approach this at 20 mph. It's an uphill struggle for my car (Skoda Citigo 60hp). Braking is much easier than accelerating. Hence a slower approach would not be appropriate. I'm young, so my reaction times are decent! I will approach in either 1st or 2nd gear - 1st has the advantage of quicker acceleration to 30 (here be the rev limiter), but 2nd gear means I don't need to shift if I need more speed (2nd will get me to 50). Also, 2nd gear is easier on the residents' ears.
Now, horror story time (no crash, fortunately). I was approaching this chicane in 2nd gear. The road ahead, as far as I could see, was clear. So I committed to the maneouver. Of course, Sod's law, there's an approaching delivery van/truck.. I think at about the speed limit. Appeared just after I'd committed.
To avoid a collision, I had a couple of options. I could hammer on the brakes and stop in the chicane. In this scenario, I'm dependent on the delivery driver responding appropriately. Or, I can accelerate through the chicane and clear it before he arrives. I have the acceleration to do this, but I need to keep my pedal on the metal.
I chose the latter. There was room to do it, and it didn't depend on the other driver stopping (who is potentially expecting me to accelerate through). I pulled the maneuver off cleanly, but there wasn't a lot of a margin to do this. I was also now doing ~40 mph. In a 20 zone. I slowed down, but can't help considering the situation if the other driver had been traveling faster. I think that I would have stopped, but would they? And then, I'm the one on the wrong side of the road...
Needless to say, the council have received a very angry letter emphasizing the speed I was forced to do by their scheme, and how had something gone wrong I could have lost control and ploughed into a child at 40 mph... I thought that the "think of the children" line would most affect them. I've seen SpeedWatch right on that stretch before. I really don't want the hassle of arguing something like this out in the courts when I have A level exams! Had there been a nice stripy van man, I'd have been in summons territory.
Perhaps you should just use the Bus in the future....This photo is while the village (A road) was a 30 zone.
Then the council put in a pedestrian crossing with traffic lights. Naturally, they decided that they needed to make a whole stretch through the village a 20 zone, and at the same time put in chicanes.
The worst of the aforementioned chicanes is on the left side of the road pictured, I believe roughly where the height restriction sign is (I'm too focused on the road to say exactly). And yes, this is on the approach to a blind hill on a corner.
I always approach this at 20 mph. It's an uphill struggle for my car (Skoda Citigo 60hp). Braking is much easier than accelerating. Hence a slower approach would not be appropriate. I'm young, so my reaction times are decent! I will approach in either 1st or 2nd gear - 1st has the advantage of quicker acceleration to 30 (here be the rev limiter), but 2nd gear means I don't need to shift if I need more speed (2nd will get me to 50). Also, 2nd gear is easier on the residents' ears.
Now, horror story time (no crash, fortunately). I was approaching this chicane in 2nd gear. The road ahead, as far as I could see, was clear. So I committed to the maneouver. Of course, Sod's law, there's an approaching delivery van/truck.. I think at about the speed limit. Appeared just after I'd committed.
To avoid a collision, I had a couple of options. I could hammer on the brakes and stop in the chicane. In this scenario, I'm dependent on the delivery driver responding appropriately. Or, I can accelerate through the chicane and clear it before he arrives. I have the acceleration to do this, but I need to keep my pedal on the metal.
I chose the latter. There was room to do it, and it didn't depend on the other driver stopping (who is potentially expecting me to accelerate through). I pulled the maneuver off cleanly, but there wasn't a lot of a margin to do this. I was also now doing ~40 mph. In a 20 zone. I slowed down, but can't help considering the situation if the other driver had been traveling faster. I think that I would have stopped, but would they? And then, I'm the one on the wrong side of the road...
Needless to say, the council have received a very angry letter emphasizing the speed I was forced to do by their scheme, and how had something gone wrong I could have lost control and ploughed into a child at 40 mph... I thought that the "think of the children" line would most affect them. I've seen SpeedWatch right on that stretch before. I really don't want the hassle of arguing something like this out in the courts when I have A level exams! Had there been a nice stripy van man, I'd have been in summons territory.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
750turbo said:
Perhaps you should just use the Bus in the future....
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The bus service in this area is literally https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
. I don't have a lot of power to get me out of trouble. I dare say some of the encounters I whine about might seem a bit tame by the standards of more seasoned drivers, but I really don't appreciate being forced to break the law... by the same council that's going to make a quick buck if they catch me!lucido grigio said:
I have no idea how you ended up going from 20 to 40 whilst negotiaiting a chicane .
Who had priority at the chicane ?......
The other vehicle had priority, but was impossible to see until I was already committed. If you say use a slower approach, as I've mentioned I don't have the power to get out of trouble with that one. If I have to stop there, I'm Who had priority at the chicane ?......
ing myself, and then murdering my engine to get through.I will try to get a photo, and I might have been overzealous with the accelerator. However, as I've mentioned, braking is faster than accelerating. It can very much be a case of accelerate first and brake later.
Edited by Solocle on Thursday 18th May 18:28
Yup, got the mother of all traffic calming measures at my college, 2 chicanes, both on opposite sides of a busy approach to a blind crest next to the smoking area where there are always crowds of people standing. There is also no place to pass before the chicane since people park all up and down the street during college hours. Oh AND it's a college so every second car is a 18 year old in a Corsa going flat out around the chicane, normally in the wet, they would only be doing 25-30 in a straight line if it wasn't there, but instead they are slinging there cars around it at 20-25 flat out for a bit of a laugh (which to be fair it kind of is when its quiet 
)
It's a major accident waiting to happen
As usual the high up google camera doesn't really show the crest, I certainly cant see over it until I am entering the chicane in my low down mx5.
)It's a major accident waiting to happen
As usual the high up google camera doesn't really show the crest, I certainly cant see over it until I am entering the chicane in my low down mx5.
DoubleD said:
Is the horror bit the car that you were driving? Or was it something else in the story?
It's that the traffic calming forced me to do such a speed that it would have meant a court summons. I've laid out the different courses of action that I could take, and of course, the car I'm driving is a factor in my decisions. If I'd been driving a Porsche, it would have been much easier to do. But I'm not some old person who may not put their foot down. This "road safety" scheme is extremely dangerous. Locals say things like:Unnamed Local said:
I read far more complaints of road safety since the traffic calming has been here than there was before
caelite said:
Yup, got the mother of all traffic calming measures at my college, 2 chicanes, both on opposite sides of a busy approach to a blind crest next to the smoking area where there are always crowds of people standing. There is also no place to pass before the chicane since people park all up and down the street during college hours. Oh AND it's a college so every second car is a 18 year old in a Corsa going flat out around the chicane, normally in the wet, they would only be doing 25-30 in a straight line if it wasn't there, but instead they are slinging there cars around it at 20-25 flat out for a bit of a laugh (which to be fair it kind of is when its quiet )
It's a major accident waiting to happen
As usual the high up google camera doesn't really show the crest, I certainly cant see over it until I am entering the chicane in my low down mx5.
Who's idea are these measures? A big amount of the highway's budget, making safety worse.)It's a major accident waiting to happen
As usual the high up google camera doesn't really show the crest, I certainly cant see over it until I am entering the chicane in my low down mx5.
Solocle said:
Who's idea are these measures? A big amount of the highway's budget, making safety worse.
Was there not a fairly large report released a few years back stating exactly this, councils found that deliberately designing there roads in an unsafe manner kept people's speeds down as they naturally felt like they had to drive more safely. I'm pretty sure it was found to be one of, if not the only way they could find to get the 85th percentile traffic speed within the bounds of their proposed/implemented limits. I remember some of the tactics they where employing where fairly ridiculous, traffic calming detritus and speed bumps being the obvious ones, however I also read that they where removing road markings as it was found people drove slower with no centreline, they employed badly designed bush arrangements on the approach to roundabouts and junctions forcing visibility down so people would slow to a stop instead of rolling on, the last one has had some fairly funny results posted on here which was the implementation of deliberately convoluted and confusing road markings such as mini roundabouts on straight roads, errant lines & badly placed signage.
All within the name of reducing 85th percentile speeds down to an arbitrarily low limit.
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-02-03/road-markings-m...
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/cambridge-new...
OP I've read a few of your posts now across a bunch of threads.
Forced to nail it through a chicane because of oncoming traffic.
Forced to chase lights 'on the rev limiter' because you had a lorry behind you.
Overtook in a 'less ideal' spot that was 'adventurous' because you were being tailgated by a mini.
Having some 'harmless fun' with a silver car at 100mph.
etc, etc, etc
You come across as being a total liability.
And I've reached the age when I've started to sounds like my Dad. I'm just glad that my bragging about stupid st I did isn't there for all to see on the internet. Seriously, give it 5-10 years, come back and read it all again.
Edit: Also stop the bragging about a 60hp Skoda Citigo with its 'handling' and 'surprising speed'. It really is the 18yo equivalent of claiming your new Reeboks are better than your mates because the Hexalite makes you run faster.
Forced to nail it through a chicane because of oncoming traffic.
Forced to chase lights 'on the rev limiter' because you had a lorry behind you.
Overtook in a 'less ideal' spot that was 'adventurous' because you were being tailgated by a mini.
Having some 'harmless fun' with a silver car at 100mph.
etc, etc, etc
You come across as being a total liability.
And I've reached the age when I've started to sounds like my Dad. I'm just glad that my bragging about stupid s
t I did isn't there for all to see on the internet. Seriously, give it 5-10 years, come back and read it all again.Edit: Also stop the bragging about a 60hp Skoda Citigo with its 'handling' and 'surprising speed'. It really is the 18yo equivalent of claiming your new Reeboks are better than your mates because the Hexalite makes you run faster.
Edited by xxChrisxx on Friday 19th May 12:26
Strudul said:
How do you manage to get into 1st at those speeds? I pretty much have to be stopped (<2mph) before I can shift down into 1st...
Usually in 3rd/4th by 20mph...
My car does way over 20mph in first, shifting down into first at that speed shouldn't be difficult in any car unless they have issues when still cold or when it's an auto/semi auto and won't let youUsually in 3rd/4th by 20mph...
SmilerFTM said:
Strudul said:
How do you manage to get into 1st at those speeds? I pretty much have to be stopped (<2mph) before I can shift down into 1st...
Usually in 3rd/4th by 20mph...
My car does way over 20mph in first, shifting down into first at that speed shouldn't be difficult in any car unless they have issues when still cold or when it's an auto/semi auto and won't let youUsually in 3rd/4th by 20mph...
Manual, 6-speed, hot and cold.
Surely, if you are committed to the maneuver then as the way ahead was clear when you started?
So in that case, why panic?
Why not just complete the maneuver at an appropriate speed as the vehicle coming the other will slow to let you pass? Which of course they should do. If they do not, then you both come to a stop.
Big message you need to learn: calm down! We've all been there in thinking we know it all, we are right and they are wrong etc etc. It isn't worth the stress.
So in that case, why panic?
Why not just complete the maneuver at an appropriate speed as the vehicle coming the other will slow to let you pass? Which of course they should do. If they do not, then you both come to a stop.
Big message you need to learn: calm down! We've all been there in thinking we know it all, we are right and they are wrong etc etc. It isn't worth the stress.
herewego said:
I think you should take somebody out with you when you drive for a while as you don't seem to have much confidence, or maybe do a passplus course and show the instructor the locations where you struggle.
A lot of the time I have parents beside me... but I'm not lacking confidence, I just resent a "safety scheme" that forces you onto the wrong side of the road with a give way, when you can't see that it is clear to do so - making another vehicle slow down is against they highway code and unsafe if they are distracted. If there was a collision, it would likely be 50:50. The alternative is to speed up once commited and flout the law.Solocle said:
... but I'm not lacking confidence..
That is the problem. You should be lacking confidence at this stage. Seriously, there would not have been an accident as you would both have been doing 20mph and the road would be clear at the point of you committing to the maneuver. He would have seen you passing the chicane and slowed. You created the risk by speeding like that.
I suspect you were not prepared to come to a stop at the chicane and 'commited' to this some way before. What would you have done if a delivery van was parked there?
If you car is so slow you can't do a hill start (it isn't), then the problem is with you. I have driven the 60hp 1.0 engine and it is nippy enough in that car.
Just take it easy behind the wheel of the car, it's driving like what you describe that causes the need for traffic calming. We have all been there, thinking we are God's gift to driving. But eventually we learn we aren't and then we become safer drivers.
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