32 miles of 60mph M1

[Riley Blue]

dcb said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Might as well do 90 here - it's as legal as 150kph is in France. Their limit's 130, or 110 if it's raining.

Enforcement levels are different. Brits are obsessed by speed limits
and have cameras all over the place. They will ticket for 81 mph in a 70 mph.
Speeding is seen as a source of revenue.

The French have a different attitude. They will ticket serious speeding sure, but cameras
are relatively rare and coppers won't bother to get their books out until 160 kph in a 130 kph limit.

In practice, progress is much more civilised under the French model. They concentrate
on what matters, like tailgating, and leave minor matters until they get excessive.

Most French traffic seems to amble along about 150 kmh. Sure that's technically
illegal, but they can't ticket most of the population.

You don't say when you last drove in France but my friends who live there tell me it has got much worse in the last couple of years with more fixed and mobile cameras and more stringent enforcement. Apparently the French police readily admit that cameras are revenue earners.

[768]

Riley Blue said:

You don't say when you last drove in France but my friends who live there tell me it has got much worse in the last couple of years with more fixed and mobile cameras and more stringent enforcement. Apparently the French police readily admit that cameras are revenue earners.

July for me. Most of an 8 hour journey on the French side with cruise set to 100mph between overtakes, a week or so driving round the local area, then back again. Only saw one camera held by a policeman at the first tolls from Calais, pointing vers Angleterre.

Didn't hear anything. Mind you, I usually do the same in the UK without issue, the disease of average camera areas aside.

[billzeebub]

I got done for doing 54 in the 40 section of the M1 at around 10pm earlier this year. Road mega quiet and obviously no sign of any workmen!..needless to say it was 3 points and £100. I thought I was doing 54 in a 60! I'm not grumbling about the fine, more the 3 points. The way (and number of) cameras set up now it's a wonder anyone who drives decent mileage has a licence left with 12 points being the max. First time in my life I'm currently on 6 points. Both occasions were just over an artificially low limit that wasn't well signed. Maybe lower level speeding fines now shouldn't also mean points on licence. I'm sanguin about it being a money making excercise, but feel that for anyone who drives any real mileage in this country it's now akin to a game of Russian roulette with points on licence. As for the amount of dangerous driving I see that is never going to be caught! Traffic Police is needed for this, but rarely see one nowadays....then there's the safety aspect of constantly staring at your speedo on average speed stretches...so unsafe! Rant over!

Edited by billzeebub on Thursday 28th September 23:37

[TooMany2cvs]

billzeebub said:

I got done for doing 54 in the 40 section of the M1 at around 10pm earlier this year. ... I thought I was doing 54 in a 60! ... artificially low limit that wasn't well signed.

Really? I've never once seen a reduced-limit bit of motorway that was anything other than blindlingly obvious. Was this a variable limit stretch?

billzeebub said:

then there's the safety aspect of constantly staring at your speedo on average speed stretches...

Not got cruise?

[dcb]

Riley Blue said:

You don't say when you last drove in France but my friends who live there tell me it has got much worse in the last couple of years with more fixed and mobile cameras and more stringent enforcement. Apparently the French police readily admit that cameras are revenue earners.

Two weeks ago. I go over there quite a bit.

French folks like a grumble as much as the rest of us. French coppers tend to find it
easier to book French nationals than Brits and other foreigners, indeed they only
share their drivers database with the Luxembourgers and the Swiss.

I'll keep setting my cruise control on 100 mph in France until I get my first ticket.
Thirty years and waiting with the EUR 90 in my pocket.

[Pica-Pica]

TooMany2cvs said:

billzeebub said:

I got done for doing 54 in the 40 section of the M1 at around 10pm earlier this year. ... I thought I was doing 54 in a 60! ... artificially low limit that wasn't well signed.

Really? I've never once seen a reduced-limit bit of motorway that was anything other than blindlingly obvious. Was this a variable limit stretch?

billzeebub said:

then there's the safety aspect of constantly staring at your speedo on average speed stretches...

Not got cruise?

Or speed limiter?

[billzeebub]

TooMany2cvs said:

billzeebub said:

I got done for doing 54 in the 40 section of the M1 at around 10pm earlier this year. ... I thought I was doing 54 in a 60! ... artificially low limit that wasn't well signed.

Really? I've never once seen a reduced-limit bit of motorway that was anything other than blindlingly obvious. Was this a variable limit stretch?

billzeebub said:

then there's the safety aspect of constantly staring at your speedo on average speed stretches...

Not got cruise?

Limit was reduced because of roadworks on average speed check. Though I didnt realise until I got the letter in the post that a portion of the works had an even lower limit of 40! It was night and the road had nothing else around. I wasn't expecting the lower limit, nor did I see any obvious signs telling of a further reduced limit. No way of proving either way now.

Regards cruise and speed limiter? No I don't have either on my cars. I own older Sportscars that don't have such modern gizmos. I would further guess that a good proportion of the country does not own a car with such gadgets. Hence, a lot of people will be paying more attention to 'speedo gazing' than looking at the road ahead through these vast stretches of money generating cameras

[Chris944]

billzeebub said:

I got done for doing 54 in the 40 section of the M1 at around 10pm earlier this year. Road mega quiet and obviously no sign of any workmen!..needless to say it was 3 points and £100. I thought I was doing 54 in a 60! I'm not grumbling about the fine, more the 3 points. The way (and number of) cameras set up now it's a wonder anyone who drives decent mileage has a licence left with 12 points being the max. First time in my life I'm currently on 6 points. Both occasions were just over an artificially low limit that wasn't well signed. Maybe lower level speeding fines now shouldn't also mean points on licence. I'm sanguin about it being a money making excercise, but feel that for anyone who drives any real mileage in this country it's now akin to a game of Russian roulette with points on licence. As for the amount of dangerous driving I see that is never going to be caught! Traffic Police is needed for this, but rarely see one nowadays....then there's the safety aspect of constantly staring at your speedo on average speed stretches...so unsafe! Rant over!

Edited by billzeebub on Thursday 28th September 23:37

Sorry to hear that. Personally I hate variable speed limit roadworks. You have to be mega-alert all the way through. Agree completely that having points as well as a fine for this low-level speed limit breaking offence is too much.

[FiF]

768 said:

DaveH23 said:

Travelling that same distance at 70 would of saved you around 5 minutes of time.

[/Mumsnet]

Multiply up by the number of people travelling these stretches, I wonder how long it is before a lifetime is lost.

Well part of our input to the original consultation consisted was that from an informal cooperative group of consultant engineers who travel that section either every day or frequently. We worked out that between us we would lose out 28 working days over the year. Somebody has to pay for that.

[vonhosen]

Chris944 said:

billzeebub said:

I got done for doing 54 in the 40 section of the M1 at around 10pm earlier this year. Road mega quiet and obviously no sign of any workmen!..needless to say it was 3 points and £100. I thought I was doing 54 in a 60! I'm not grumbling about the fine, more the 3 points. The way (and number of) cameras set up now it's a wonder anyone who drives decent mileage has a licence left with 12 points being the max. First time in my life I'm currently on 6 points. Both occasions were just over an artificially low limit that wasn't well signed. Maybe lower level speeding fines now shouldn't also mean points on licence. I'm sanguin about it being a money making excercise, but feel that for anyone who drives any real mileage in this country it's now akin to a game of Russian roulette with points on licence. As for the amount of dangerous driving I see that is never going to be caught! Traffic Police is needed for this, but rarely see one nowadays....then there's the safety aspect of constantly staring at your speedo on average speed stretches...so unsafe! Rant over!

Edited by billzeebub on Thursday 28th September 23:37

Sorry to hear that. Personally I hate variable speed limit roadworks. You have to be mega-alert all the way through. Agree completely that having points as well as a fine for this low-level speed limit breaking offence is too much.

1) 54 in a 40 isn't really low level, low level speeding in isolation tends to result in NFA or a SAC, not a fine & points.

2) I'd be inclined to think it's more about revenue collection if they were to remove points from the equation. It's the presence of points & the consequences of totting that suggest it's not your money they want but to encourage you to choose not to exceed the limits. By banning those who get caught regularly they'd be killing the golden goose if revenue collection were the goal.

[billzeebub]

vonhosen said:

Chris944 said:

billzeebub said:

I got done for doing 54 in the 40 section of the M1 at around 10pm earlier this year. Road mega quiet and obviously no sign of any workmen!..needless to say it was 3 points and £100. I thought I was doing 54 in a 60! I'm not grumbling about the fine, more the 3 points. The way (and number of) cameras set up now it's a wonder anyone who drives decent mileage has a licence left with 12 points being the max. First time in my life I'm currently on 6 points. Both occasions were just over an artificially low limit that wasn't well signed. Maybe lower level speeding fines now shouldn't also mean points on licence. I'm sanguin about it being a money making excercise, but feel that for anyone who drives any real mileage in this country it's now akin to a game of Russian roulette with points on licence. As for the amount of dangerous driving I see that is never going to be caught! Traffic Police is needed for this, but rarely see one nowadays....then there's the safety aspect of constantly staring at your speedo on average speed stretches...so unsafe! Rant over!

Edited by billzeebub on Thursday 28th September 23:37

Sorry to hear that. Personally I hate variable speed limit roadworks. You have to be mega-alert all the way through. Agree completely that having points as well as a fine for this low-level speed limit breaking offence is too much.

1) 54 in a 40 isn't really low level, low level speeding in isolation tends to result in NFA or a SAC, not a fine & points.

2) I'd be inclined to think it's more about revenue collection if they were to remove points from the equation. It's the presence of points & the consequences of totting that suggest it's not your money they want but to encourage you to choose not to exceed the limits. By banning those who get caught regularly they'd be killing the golden goose if revenue collection were the goal.

1. 54 is 16 under the standard UK motorway limit

2. Totting up (maybe) gets you banned for a short period, then back out there to be aimed at again

[vonhosen]

billzeebub said:

1. 54 is 16 under the standard UK motorway limit

What other limits exist is irrelevant for the offence. it's over a third over the prevailing limit at the time. No small margin.

billzeebub said:

2. Totting up (maybe) gets you banned for a short period, then back out there to be aimed at again

If it were about money they wouldn't want to lose any time getting it from their best potential earning sources. And a lifetime ban would be truly disproportionate even where they are trying to influence your choices. Points & totting bans show it's about attempting to influence change. They can aim all they like if you decide not to exceed the limit & it will get them nowhere. We choose to put ourselves on offer or not through our choice of speed. We are in control of the vehicle & it's velocity, not them.

[Collectingbrass]

billzeebub said:

1. 54 is 16 under the standard UK motorway limit

2. Totting up (maybe) gets you banned for a short period, then back out there to be aimed at again

Totting gets you a 6 month ban, unless you can appeal hardship for others if you are banned.

[billzeebub]

vonhosen said:

billzeebub said:

1. 54 is 16 under the standard UK motorway limit

What other limits exist is irrelevant for the offence. it's over a third over the prevailing limit at the time. No small margin.

billzeebub said:

2. Totting up (maybe) gets you banned for a short period, then back out there to be aimed at again

If it were about money they wouldn't want to lose any time getting it from their best potential earning sources. And a lifetime ban would be truly disproportionate even where they are trying to influence your choices. Points & totting bans show it's about attempting to influence change. They can aim all they like if you decide not to exceed the limit & it will get them nowhere. We choose to put ourselves on offer or not through our choice of speed. We are in control of the vehicle & it's velocity, not them.

Ok, sorry...you're right and I'm wrong. It's clear I'm just a speed demon and all speed cameras are proportionate and there purely with road safety in mind.

[vonhosen]

billzeebub said:

vonhosen said:

billzeebub said:

1. 54 is 16 under the standard UK motorway limit

What other limits exist is irrelevant for the offence. it's over a third over the prevailing limit at the time. No small margin.

billzeebub said:

2. Totting up (maybe) gets you banned for a short period, then back out there to be aimed at again

If it were about money they wouldn't want to lose any time getting it from their best potential earning sources. And a lifetime ban would be truly disproportionate even where they are trying to influence your choices. Points & totting bans show it's about attempting to influence change. They can aim all they like if you decide not to exceed the limit & it will get them nowhere. We choose to put ourselves on offer or not through our choice of speed. We are in control of the vehicle & it's velocity, not them.

Ok, sorry...you're right and I'm wrong. It's clear I'm just a speed demon and all speed cameras are proportionate and there purely with road safety in mind.

I don't know whether you are speed demon, unobservant, don't care, or alternatively are an excellent driver.

It's not relevant to the point as none of that alters that the limit exists & it's written black/white as to whether there is an offence or not. The camera does just what's asked of it, that is record evidence of people exceeding it. Then a non zero tolerance scale is used to determine what action should be taken where transgressions are detected. Then you have a sliding scale of penalties depending on the margin of transgression.

It's like that so that it's all pretty clear & unambiguous. We all know exactly where we stand if we decide to exceed the limits for whatever reason & get caught. It's then up to us (as we are the people in control of the vehicle & responsible for our choices in doing so) to make our minds up about what we are going to do relative to the imposed limits. Some people (because it suits their purpose at the time) are willing to risk margins that could result in a SAC or low level FPN, some are willing to push it up to just about avoiding a court hearing, some are willing to push up to avoiding a likely ban. Others don't give a damn whatever the outcome.

We make & are responsible for both our own choices & then the outcomes of those choices.