combo 1.7cdti blowby

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torchwooduk

Original Poster:

37 posts

68 months

Monday 16th July 2018
quotequote all
I have a combo 1.7cdti 2008 with 60k miles on it, I bought it with a few problems which I was aware of about 8 months ago. It had a oil leak with oil coming out of the egr cooler gasket and intercooler pipe. I checked the turbo and it did have some slight play so I decided to fit a new chra cartridge, I also replaced the intercooler and pipes.

A few weeks later I noticed it was still leaking oil around the egr cooler, I drive around 6 hours a day stop/start 6 days a week in the van doing deliveries and it loses approx 1l of oil every 2 weeks which is approx every 475 miles, seems to be a bit worse in the warm weather we have had. I have just been topping it up for the last few months.

I have noticed that when I remove the oil filler I seem to be getting a lot of blowby I have uploaded this video I have fitted an oil catch can and gave it a 20 min drive with plenty of boost and have collected 1 1/2 teaspoons of fresh oil. So it looks like the turbo was fine and this is the cause of my problem.

My last 1.7 combo never went above half on the temp gauage, don't think I ever heard the fan in the 3 years I had it, while this one gets to around 95 and then the fan kicks in, it does this quite a lot although tends to be better once the van has been running a few hours, more on hot days obviouisly. No signs of a failing head gasket, could a breach in the HG be causing blowby? or is it likely to be a piston ring? I have plenty of power/boost and no obvious smoke,

Edited by torchwooduk on Monday 16th July 17:30

GreenV8S

30,152 posts

283 months

Monday 16th July 2018
quotequote all
I suggest a block test / coolant sniff test to confirm it isn't blowing into the cooling system, and a leakdown test to find whether/where the cylinders are leaking.

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Monday 16th July 2018
quotequote all
torchwooduk said:
I have a combo 1.7cdti 2008 with 60k miles on it, I bought it with a few problems which I was aware of about 8 months ago. It had a oil leak with oil coming out of the egr cooler gasket and intercooler pipe. I checked the turbo and it did have some slight play so I decided to fit a new chra cartridge, I also replaced the intercooler and pipes.

A few weeks later I noticed it was still leaking oil around the egr cooler, I drive around 6 hours a day stop/start 6 days a week in the van doing deliveries and it loses approx 1l of oil every 2 weeks which is approx every 475 miles, seems to be a bit worse in the warm weather we have had. I have just been topping it up for the last few months.

I have noticed that when I remove the oil filler I seem to be getting a lot of blowby I have uploaded this video I have fitted an oil catch can and gave it a 20 min drive with plenty of boost and have collected 1 1/2 teaspoons of fresh oil. So it looks like the turbo was fine and this is the cause of my problem.

My last 1.7 combo never went above half on the temp gauage, don't think I ever heard the fan in the 3 years I had it, while this one gets to around 95 and then the fan kicks in, it does this quite a lot although tends to be better once the van has been running a few hours, more on hot days obviouisly. No signs of a failing head gasket, could a breach in the HG be causing blowby? or is it likely to be a piston ring? I have plenty of power/boost and no obvious smoke,

Edited by torchwooduk on Monday 16th July 17:30
Oil in intercooler pipes is fairy normal, the breathers etc are just crap.

Oil via the EGR cooler...is not normal.

It's very clear from that video your injector seals are leaking and would certainly make any oiling problems worse, and certainly contribute to oil getting into all the wrong places

Replacement if there are no stuck injectors is a fairly easy job ( for a reasonably competent person ). If there are seized injectors this can easily turn into a fk up because of the injector sleeve inserts in the head.
I've direct experience of it all !!
If it starts normally, runs and drives normally then injector seals should be your priority. Oil via the EGR cooler would still be of some concern though..I only seen that on mine after the engine was completely fked.
Hopefully in your case it's just excessive oil passing through the intake system because of the blowby caused by the failed injector seals.

As for temperature, ignore the OEM gauge entirely, as often it bares little resemblance to actual temperature. COmbo has a 3 speed fan, first at 101degC, then 103 then 105 I think it is.
Normally the stat runs around 89-90deg so it is pretty rare to see 100+ for the fan to come on. Maybe up some slow hills etc although in this warmer weather more likely.

But even with the engine at say 105degC, the OEM dash gauge sill still be showing you in the 90-95deg range.

torchwooduk

Original Poster:

37 posts

68 months

Monday 16th July 2018
quotequote all
I have used the van most of today and have collected about 25ml approx of oil in the catch can, the oil leaks out the gasket where the egr cooler connects to the egr and has also starting leaking around the intake pipe on the turbo. I suspect it is due to the amount of oil being blown into the intake although the catch can should reduce that to very little or stop it completely.

The fan kicks in when the gauge reads approx 95deg, this can happen quite a lot on a warm day, the small pipe that returns coolant to the top has been blocked twice now with grit, unblocked it but dosn't seem to make a difference to the running temp, wondering if a good flush might help?

So from looking at the video you would say it is the bottom injector seals causing the blowby?

Edited by torchwooduk on Monday 16th July 21:26

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
torchwooduk said:
I have used the van most of today and have collected about 25ml approx of oil in the catch can, the oil leaks out the gasket where the egr cooler connects to the egr and has also starting leaking around the intake pipe on the turbo. I suspect it is due to the amount of oil being blown into the intake although the catch can should reduce that to very little or stop it completely.

The fan kicks in when the gauge reads approx 95deg, this can happen quite a lot on a warm day, the small pipe that returns coolant to the top has been blocked twice now with grit, unblocked it but dosn't seem to make a difference to the running temp, wondering if a good flush might help?

So from looking at the video you would say it is the bottom injector seals causing the blowby?

Edited by torchwooduk on Monday 16th July 21:26
No idea what catch can you're referring to, nor how it might be installed as to whether it will have any value or not.

The OEM dash display gauge is largely meaningless as already explained. If you want a more accurate temperature reading just get a cheap ELM327 thingy and an app for the phone so it can read values correctly.

Why is there grit in the system ? Has someone been filling it with st to try and stop leaks or something ?

There is no question that your injectors seals are leaking, your neighbours could probably hear them when you took that cap off lol.

Whether or not is it the cause of all the blowby is another matter. But it is loud enough that it is a very bad leak that needs fixed, and it will also be contaminating the oil system which will have other risks to engine longevity.

You could have all 4 injectors removed and re-fitted in a couple of hours. HOWEVER.....it is highly likely the ones that are leaking will be stuck tight which will cause problems. The injectors sit down into an aluminium sleeve in the cylinder head, which may either break or come out when trying to remove the stuck injectors, which then opens another can of worms in that it can then dump all the water from the head into the cylinder.

copper injector washers are cheap....you'll need new o-rings as well. washers available everywhere or dealers. Not so many list the o-rings separately for some reason. I think I have dimensions somewhere, or they're a few quid each from the dealer.

Injector sleeve if it breaks is around £30-40..and again it needs 2 o-rings and will need pressed into the cylinder head....after complete removal of the old.

As said...it isnt a hugely difficult job to replace the seals..but it has the potential to go very badly wrong but it really is not advisable to keep driving it as it is.

torchwooduk

Original Poster:

37 posts

68 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
Just started it this morning, got around the corner and noticed a whirling noise and it is idling at 1000rpm. Got it home and popped the bonnet and when I remove the cap oil is spurting out in small droplets and it appears to be smoking out at the bottom around the alternator. Dosn't look good, any ideas?

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
Have you read anything I've said ?

torchwooduk

Original Poster:

37 posts

68 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
Sorry yes, just wondering why it suddenly got a whole lot worse or if this is a new problem. been fine for past 6 months. The smoke coming out stinks, guess all I can do is replace the seals and hope for the best.

I did a service a few days ago and used a flush thinking some craps might be on the piston rings.

Edited by torchwooduk on Tuesday 17th July 10:04


Edited by torchwooduk on Tuesday 17th July 10:04

torchwooduk

Original Poster:

37 posts

68 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
Just got back and started it up and it's back to how it was yesterday, still smell the smell now and it smells like burning rubber, my battery light is on so I'm going to guess my alternator died.

torchwooduk

Original Poster:

37 posts

68 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
Got the rocker cover off, removed the brackets, what's the best way to remove them to minimize risk? they seem to be all stuck solid.

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
torchwooduk said:
Just got back and started it up and it's back to how it was yesterday, still smell the smell now and it smells like burning rubber, my battery light is on so I'm going to guess my alternator died.
The high idle could have been a symptom of low battery voltage because of the knackered alternator ( which does not always bring the light on...and failure can easily be caused by oil all over the alternator )

But most alternators only seem to last 100-150k anyway

If you've the covers off, and the clamp bolt/bracket removed etc...

I found the best way was to get a good strong pair of vise grips on the flat side of the injector body, think it was 1/4 or 3/8 extension bar across the cam caps and use the bar as a lever so that you're only trying to lift the injector vertically. Then apply force ( hammer lol ) to assist.

However, the injectors are set down into this sleeve



Which is in turn pressed into the cylinder head. The lower part is simply an interference fit in the middle of the combustion chamber, and the 2 recesses mid body are for o-rings. One will seal against water within the head and the upper from oil in the rocker cover area.

On mine, I broke the sleeve by trying to rotate the injector to help removal. But even lifting vertically upwards, the sleeve may try and withdraw along with the injector. There's nothing you can do to avoid this.

There's mention of this, step #80 here

https://workshop-manuals.com/vauxhall/corsa-c/j__e...


Edited by stevieturbo on Tuesday 17th July 19:18

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
And if/when you get to the stage of refitting...you MUST use the correct torque sequence when re-clamping the injectors up with new copper seals

Initial 40Nm, then back off 360 and re-torque to 32Nm.

Do not just do a single tighten or they will come loose again.

torchwooduk

Original Poster:

37 posts

68 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
I have no 4 out, the sleeve is wiggling with the injector on no 3, got a feeling it will pull out, I quickly started the engine earlier with the rocker cover off and it looked to be puffing from this injector a lot. Put a bit of coke around them and will try again tomorrow, how to you fit the sleeves, do I need a special tool to press them in?

Edited by torchwooduk on Tuesday 17th July 21:05

torchwooduk

Original Poster:

37 posts

68 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
I have no 4 out, the sleeve is wiggling with the injector on no 3, got a feeling it will pull out. I tried to rotate to aid removal but the sleeve is turning with the injector, is the sleeve knackered now? if the sleeve comes out intact can I put new o rings on it and reuse?

Put a bit of coke around them and will try again tomorrow, how to you fit the sleeves, do I need a special tool to press them in?

Edited by torchwooduk on Tuesday 17th July 21:08


Edited by torchwooduk on Tuesday 17th July 22:29

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Tuesday 17th July 2018
quotequote all
As I said...do not try and rotate ! The sleeve is thin and fragile.

If it feels really loose...good chance you've broken the sleeve as I did. This makes things rather awkward.

Have you lost water from the header tank ? If so...it's now likely filled up that cylinder if the sleeve has broken. If it is broken, then the lower nose will be stuck in the cylinder head, but the rest of the sleeve will come out much easier ( cant recall if it will fit through the hole in the cam carrier cap frame thing though )

This video is a different isuzu engine, but it's a similar style with the injector sleeve. IMO do not try and remove any sleeves without draining the coolant from the engine so there is less chance of any getting into the cylinders

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqGY5NFnUIQ

From around 4:50 here, same idea

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YGmsDbQhvE

If the sleeve is not broken and has just moved a little....as per the workshop manual I gave you the link to, apparently it is ok to drift the sleeve back into place. In my case I didnt know all this prior to starting and what had happened or was broken and I removed the head and removed the broken bit from the head that way, cleaned everything up and pressed the new sleeve in in a press. With hindsight I should probably have pressed it in with a long tool reaching to the base/nose of the sleeve rather than from the top. But it was all ok.

TBH, putting coke or anything down past the injector really isnt going to do much If anything it might make it more difficult. They just lock up from lots of carbon deposits and the o-ring seal will likely prevent the coke getting down there anyway. I dont think it will do any harm, but dont think it will help either.

It really does just requite a little patience and some brute force. I couldnt find any specific pullers for these injectors...nor is there really anywhere to grab them other than how I described, levering them with vise grips attached.


Although for things to have gotten that bad with only 60k....seems a little unbelievable. The engine must never have seen any maintenance or care.
My first one had no such problems even to 660k when the engine died from other stuff. I replaced it with one with 130k which did need injector seals...and is when I had the above problems.
I've another one with only 30k on it, although it had some fuel system problems, most likely from lack of use, but others caused by morons working at it before I got it. But inside the engine etc really was like new when I'd the cover off it replacing the injectors.

Edited by stevieturbo on Tuesday 17th July 23:32

Huntsman

8,028 posts

249 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Mind if I gate crash this thread?

I have an '08 Combo 1.3cdti.

Its 67k with a complete main dealer history.

one evening, climbing a big hill driving quite hard, it made a big wooshing noise, then was very low on power, my wife was following and she said there was clouds of soot. I think the wastegate stuck open. Next day it was fine.

Now I have an ongoing problem, at 2800rpm it hits a revs limiter. It'll rev higher on the flat or down hill and in the lower gears.

I suspect (based on a hunch) that the wastegate is stuck shut, fearing overboost the ECU is holding back fuelling.

How do I diagnose this?

GreenV8S

30,152 posts

283 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Huntsman said:
How do I diagnose this?
Look at the waste gate and see whether it is stuck.

torchwooduk

Original Poster:

37 posts

68 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Got them all out but looks like the sleeve on no 3 is broken, loads of play in it and if I wiggle it with a screw driver it looks like the bottom nib bit is no longer attached. So looks like head off job now or is there a way to do it from the top? this might work https://www.corsa-c.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?511... will I be able to retreive the broken nib bit?

and new sleeve, what did you use to press the new sleeve in with? I don't want to damage it when I come to that bit.



Edited by torchwooduk on Wednesday 18th July 18:50

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
torchwooduk said:
Got them all out but looks like the sleeve on no 3 is broken, loads of play in it and if I wiggle it with a screw driver it looks like the bottom nib bit is no longer attached. So looks like head off job now or is there a way to do it from the top? this might work https://www.corsa-c.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?511... will I be able to retreive the broken nib bit?

and new sleeve, what did you use to press the new sleeve in with? I don't want to damage it when I come to that bit.



Edited by torchwooduk on Wednesday 18th July 18:50
Once again...have you read anything I've posted ?

The video links clearly showed tools suitable for removing entire sleeve...but should also stand a good chance at retrieving the broken piece too..

Removal of the camshafts should allow you to remove the broken part of the sleeve. But again...you need to drain the water from the engine immediately and also syringe or suck any water out from that cylinder.
I cant recall if the sleeve will fit through the cam carriers or not. The impression I got from the workshop manual I also linked to you...is that the sleeves may be able to pass through the cam carrier.

I've a sleeve here, I'll measure the bottom of it but I think the OD was around 11mm, it's that small piece that is probably now stuck in the head. It should be possible to sort it without removing the head

But with a broken sleeve, the method used on that corsa forum will be of no use to you other than to retrieve the main body of the sleeve.
The picture I posted earlier shows the full sleeve.

stevieturbo

17,229 posts

246 months

Wednesday 18th July 2018
quotequote all
Huntsman said:
Mind if I gate crash this thread?

I have an '08 Combo 1.3cdti.

Its 67k with a complete main dealer history.

one evening, climbing a big hill driving quite hard, it made a big wooshing noise, then was very low on power, my wife was following and she said there was clouds of soot. I think the wastegate stuck open. Next day it was fine.

Now I have an ongoing problem, at 2800rpm it hits a revs limiter. It'll rev higher on the flat or down hill and in the lower gears.

I suspect (based on a hunch) that the wastegate is stuck shut, fearing overboost the ECU is holding back fuelling.

How do I diagnose this?
Or look at the ecu and see if it is overboosting or holding back fueling.