Dragon Loop - Scenic Driving Road Circuit in Wales
Discussion
courty said:
Mr Roper said:
Inspired by ArHarh….Just back from a short loop, Lake V, Bala, Llanfyllin then Welshpool.
My sons Clio is perfect for these roads.
I just found this thread...this must be a natural photo-stop....My sons Clio is perfect for these roads.
A word of caution if driving this section in a low car heading south, the road has a very good sightline but contains a hidden left/right kink which the uninitiated me found to my horror as I flew over the crest that precedes it...and it's a long way down with no mobile signal and a couple of sheep for company if you do go off there.
The Google camera sees it a lot earlier than I did in a low car...I came upon it way too fast.
Wales
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8DWn6WdgSskBxbN89?g_st=ac
Riley Blue said:
Wrong hill. You're here!https://www.google.com/maps/@52.7861768,-3.6165256...
Bwlch y Groes. AKA "Hellfire Pass".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bwlch_y_Groes
tropicalpalmtree,
thanks for sharing an excellent route through the best of Wales!
There are so many variations to do and you just can't get it all in, but happy to see the Dylife Mountain Road, Elan Valley and even a couple I haven't done yet because I never could sacrifice other routes to go that way. But one day.
I have to join in and say the if I had to chose I would go pick A4086 from Capel Curig, over Ogwen Valley and Llanberis Pass as I think this is probably the best driving road in all of Wales (maybe UK) with Snowdon ahead and the mountains on either side, which gives great chances for pictures and videos. And it is fast and smooth. My only problem with it that you end up going so fast it over too soon. And then I would head down the valley on A498 which has excellent views and a meandering road too.
It is hard to chose, I have had to many times, but the Capel Curig to Pen Y Gwryd stretch of road always wins for me.
My favourite drive was November 2019 in a Peugot 308 when the summits was covered in snow but the rest was vibrant orange and listening to "An Ending (Ascent)" by Brian Eno (yes from Clarkson's Aston Martin Vantage video".
I was about to suggest the Coast Road (A493) as a nice alternative, but you also had there so great, especially because heading back in land you can pass Llyn Mwyngil which is almost always ridiculous photogenic!
I would also consider Barmouth and the beautiful A496 on the other side of the estuary, which is also a fast road that is over too soon. This would also take you by Harlech Castle and views of Llyn Peninsular. This one definitely is best counter-clockwise!
Again thank you.
thanks for sharing an excellent route through the best of Wales!
There are so many variations to do and you just can't get it all in, but happy to see the Dylife Mountain Road, Elan Valley and even a couple I haven't done yet because I never could sacrifice other routes to go that way. But one day.
I have to join in and say the if I had to chose I would go pick A4086 from Capel Curig, over Ogwen Valley and Llanberis Pass as I think this is probably the best driving road in all of Wales (maybe UK) with Snowdon ahead and the mountains on either side, which gives great chances for pictures and videos. And it is fast and smooth. My only problem with it that you end up going so fast it over too soon. And then I would head down the valley on A498 which has excellent views and a meandering road too.
It is hard to chose, I have had to many times, but the Capel Curig to Pen Y Gwryd stretch of road always wins for me.
My favourite drive was November 2019 in a Peugot 308 when the summits was covered in snow but the rest was vibrant orange and listening to "An Ending (Ascent)" by Brian Eno (yes from Clarkson's Aston Martin Vantage video".
I was about to suggest the Coast Road (A493) as a nice alternative, but you also had there so great, especially because heading back in land you can pass Llyn Mwyngil which is almost always ridiculous photogenic!
I would also consider Barmouth and the beautiful A496 on the other side of the estuary, which is also a fast road that is over too soon. This would also take you by Harlech Castle and views of Llyn Peninsular. This one definitely is best counter-clockwise!
Again thank you.
Thanks @tropicalpalmtree I’m planning to do this route (anti clockwise) next week driving up from West Dorset - My first nights stop will be near Lake Vyrnwy.
Couple of questions:
Given that the black mountain road has a 40mph average is it worth diverting to go via there or have they spoilt the experience
Going to Lake Vyrnwy from the black mountains you have a choice at Newbridge on Wye, take your route via the A483 or take the A470, which is better?
FYI day two will have me do your route anti clockwise with another nights stay that evening in the Elan Valley any tips to add to your route.
I'll be heading home to go over the Seven Bridge any recommendations on the best route/must do roads I should maybe plan in.
Thank You
Oh and I’ll be in a 987.2 Spyder
Couple of questions:
Given that the black mountain road has a 40mph average is it worth diverting to go via there or have they spoilt the experience
Going to Lake Vyrnwy from the black mountains you have a choice at Newbridge on Wye, take your route via the A483 or take the A470, which is better?
FYI day two will have me do your route anti clockwise with another nights stay that evening in the Elan Valley any tips to add to your route.
I'll be heading home to go over the Seven Bridge any recommendations on the best route/must do roads I should maybe plan in.
Thank You
Oh and I’ll be in a 987.2 Spyder
If you like scenery then turn off the A470 at Dinas Mawddwy and head over Bwlch-y-Groes to the lake. If you are scared of single track roads without passing places every 50 yards, then take the A483, turn off at Welshpool and head to Llanfyllin, then onto the lake.
Bwlch-y-Groes has been mentioned plenty of times here, and if it's icy don't go over it. It can be icy up there even when its not at normal heights. No fun reversing on an icy single track road on the side of a hill with big drops. Done it once too often.
Bwlch-y-Groes has been mentioned plenty of times here, and if it's icy don't go over it. It can be icy up there even when its not at normal heights. No fun reversing on an icy single track road on the side of a hill with big drops. Done it once too often.
ARHarh said:
If you like scenery then turn off the A470 at Dinas Mawddwy and head over Bwlch-y-Groes to the lake. If you are scared of single track roads without passing places every 50 yards, then take the A483, turn off at Welshpool and head to Llanfyllin, then onto the lake.
Bwlch-y-Groes has been mentioned plenty of times here, and if it's icy don't go over it. It can be icy up there even when its not at normal heights. No fun reversing on an icy single track road on the side of a hill with big drops. Done it once too often.
Thank you - The A470 and via Dinas Mawddwy is quite a bit different from the suggested route in the opening post, I’m quite happy with single track but did wonder if by taking the A470 rather than the A483 I’d be missing other great roads or maybe heading through a 'hot on speeding' zone which the A483 might be avoiding.Bwlch-y-Groes has been mentioned plenty of times here, and if it's icy don't go over it. It can be icy up there even when its not at normal heights. No fun reversing on an icy single track road on the side of a hill with big drops. Done it once too often.
Thanks
Well that was an enjoyable anti clockwise trip, I made a few backroads and single track additions but having the Dragon Loop put together as a starting/planning point was a big help so Thank You
On the Evo triangle with its average cameras I reset my average speed trip as I passed the first camera then just made sure it was on or just under as I passed the others, adjust down on the straights to enjoy the bends.
Elan Valley Hotel recommended a few posts back was a great recommendation
URL=https://thumbsnap.com/ixhRkcZc]
[/URL]
On the Evo triangle with its average cameras I reset my average speed trip as I passed the first camera then just made sure it was on or just under as I passed the others, adjust down on the straights to enjoy the bends.
Elan Valley Hotel recommended a few posts back was a great recommendation
URL=https://thumbsnap.com/ixhRkcZc]
[/URL]Edited by Wreford on Sunday 29th September 17:16
silentbrown said:
SFTWend said:
Have I correctly assumed that the higher peaks on this tour will be free of frost? Fingers crossed and butt cheeks clenched!
Maybe a touch of ground frost first thing, but shouldn't be anything resembling ice.Enjoy you trip, should be OK weather this coming week.
ARHarh said:
silentbrown said:
SFTWend said:
Have I correctly assumed that the higher peaks on this tour will be free of frost? Fingers crossed and butt cheeks clenched!
Maybe a touch of ground frost first thing, but shouldn't be anything resembling ice.Enjoy you trip, should be OK weather this coming week.
I'll let you know how I get on.
ARHarh said:
Farmers are still harvesting maize, and when they are in and out of the fields they put a lot of mud on the roads. Mud is just as slippy as sheet ice.
It's potatoes round us! https://www.herefordtimes.com/news/24639232.herefo...silentbrown said:
ARHarh said:
Farmers are still harvesting maize, and when they are in and out of the fields they put a lot of mud on the roads. Mud is just as slippy as sheet ice.
It's potatoes round us! https://www.herefordtimes.com/news/24639232.herefo...
Thank you so much OP and contributors for this amazing route, which I could never have enjoyed without your knowledge and efforts.
I did it over two days, which included dropping down from Rhayader to experience the Black Mountain Pass. Tbh I found this pass a bit underwhelming after the Dragon Loop, perhaps because my expectations were too high, so I wouldn't bother doing that pass again.
I started from the south east tip, Crossways, and as it was just me I went for value for money accommodation. First night was just up the road at the Lion Hotel Llanbister, where I enjoyed an authentic curry. Second night was at the Buckley Arms, Dinas Mawddwy, where I enjoyed an authentic chinese. Neither accommodation would be to everyone's taste, but they worked for me and views from both were superb.
As a backup, I documented the route on a word document, detailing estimated miles and minutes to each change of road number, a few viewpoints and where to find premium fuel. Not sure the format would readily paste onto here but happy to have a go, or PM to anyone interested.
Didn't take many pics simply because the scenery was so magnificent photos couldn't capture it. That and I was enjoying driving too much!
Here is one of the morning view from my room at the Lion Hotel, plus a couple along the route.
Hopefully others will continue to post their experiences so that the Dragon Loop remains easily visible on PH.
I did it over two days, which included dropping down from Rhayader to experience the Black Mountain Pass. Tbh I found this pass a bit underwhelming after the Dragon Loop, perhaps because my expectations were too high, so I wouldn't bother doing that pass again.
I started from the south east tip, Crossways, and as it was just me I went for value for money accommodation. First night was just up the road at the Lion Hotel Llanbister, where I enjoyed an authentic curry. Second night was at the Buckley Arms, Dinas Mawddwy, where I enjoyed an authentic chinese. Neither accommodation would be to everyone's taste, but they worked for me and views from both were superb.
As a backup, I documented the route on a word document, detailing estimated miles and minutes to each change of road number, a few viewpoints and where to find premium fuel. Not sure the format would readily paste onto here but happy to have a go, or PM to anyone interested.
Didn't take many pics simply because the scenery was so magnificent photos couldn't capture it. That and I was enjoying driving too much!
Here is one of the morning view from my room at the Lion Hotel, plus a couple along the route.
Hopefully others will continue to post their experiences so that the Dragon Loop remains easily visible on PH.
V8 Animal said:
Third picture Machynlleth ~ Llandiloes?
- https://maps.app.goo.gl/fdWmT19zsxZgkuH9Asilentbrown said:
Second is on the road from S from the Pen y Gwryd, looking back to the Glyderau. 
- https://maps.app.goo.gl/AZRpvTCeWfNtFoNs8
Just spent the weekend in Wales and the Dragon Loop formed the basis of the planning. It was our 3rd driving trip, so a lot of the loop is what we have done before, but the map is such a great resource.
We started out from Oswestry on Saturday morning and did an anti clockwise loop ending at the Elan Valley Hotel. This meant that we missed out the south western part of the route, but that was mainly because we ran out of light and didn’t fancy going through the Elan Valley in the dark.
What we did manage to do was go down to Black Rock Sands to drive on the beach. Well worth it if you’re not worried about rust.
On Sunday we headed out to the Elan Valley dams for some photos before breakfast, then made our way to Llandovery and the Black Mountain Pass. I agree that it’s not actually a good driving road, but it’s breathtaking and the roads to get there are really good. B4358 and A483 as well as the A4069 before you get to the pass are all great. Another interesting thing is that all of the average speed cameras appear to have been chopped down.
We started out from Oswestry on Saturday morning and did an anti clockwise loop ending at the Elan Valley Hotel. This meant that we missed out the south western part of the route, but that was mainly because we ran out of light and didn’t fancy going through the Elan Valley in the dark.
What we did manage to do was go down to Black Rock Sands to drive on the beach. Well worth it if you’re not worried about rust.
On Sunday we headed out to the Elan Valley dams for some photos before breakfast, then made our way to Llandovery and the Black Mountain Pass. I agree that it’s not actually a good driving road, but it’s breathtaking and the roads to get there are really good. B4358 and A483 as well as the A4069 before you get to the pass are all great. Another interesting thing is that all of the average speed cameras appear to have been chopped down.
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