And again....off I go...Citroen Xantia Activa

And again....off I go...Citroen Xantia Activa

Author
Discussion

S10GTA

Original Poster:

12,645 posts

166 months

Saturday 20th October 2012
quotequote all
jbi said:
10 second 0-60 isn't quick though is it?

I suppose you could whack up the boost on the turbo, but your going to end up with a laggy unresponsive drive.
To you clearly not, to us humble folk its about more than the 0-60 time, and more about the speed the car can corner and the way the low pressure constant torque engine pulls you out of the corner.

Kitchski

6,514 posts

230 months

Saturday 20th October 2012
quotequote all
Life Saab Itch said:
I wonder if the suspension system could be removed and put in a single seater...
Williams tried that one in the early '90's wink

This particular system couldn't be, because it's powered and controlled by the hydropneumatic suspension system and its ECU. If you ran a conventional road spring/shock setup, you'd have to have a secondary system installed to control the hydraulic aspect of the anti-roll. The extra weigh, together with the complexity of the electronics would probably render it pointless, unless you're at the levels of F1 etc.

I think quite a few people are missing the point here. This is a Citroen.....they're not fussed about going really fast. Look at any successful hot hatch Citroen....there's more than a bit of Peugeot DNA underneath it. Any fast Citroen that is a true Citroen is usually only fast in a straight line....more GT cars than racers.
The fact these cars could go stupidly fast around corners was probably a bonus for Citroen. The original design brief was to have superior (read safe as it can be) roadholding in a practical car that retains a decent ride.
Many cars can go around corners with very little roll and probably generate as much G as these do, but the pay-off is solid suspension and a terrible ride. Many other cars ride as smoothly as these do, but fall over when you get to a corner.
The fact that these do both so well is the whole point behind the car. Small hot hatches and sports cars don't use this system because they don't have to....they don't need to have a smooth ride as the potential customer isn't after one.

Or another way to look at it....look at all the companies that have licensed the design for use in their cars today.....Rolls Royce for the Phantom, Land Rover for the Range Rover Sport; all the cars that now use a similar design are trying to retain a smooth ride while being able to take corners. Exactly the same brief the Activa had.

Kitchski

6,514 posts

230 months

Saturday 20th October 2012
quotequote all
Just as an aside, Citroen had the theory of active-suspension back in the '60's and carried out testing on modified DS'.



http://sucksqueezebangblow-juice.blogspot.co.uk/20...

In 1988 they made this fully hydraulic, 4wd, 4-wheel steer, active anti-roll coupe as a concept. They even toyed with the idea of launching a production version a couple of years later. Would've been a good GT coupe and if I won the lottery I'd have parked one next to the Subaru SVX I'd also buy laugh

Edited by Kitchski on Saturday 20th October 23:06

rb5er

11,657 posts

171 months

Saturday 20th October 2012
quotequote all
S10GTA said:
Just because is doesn't do 0-60 in 5 seconds doesn't mean it can't be quick...
Nope but doing 0-60 in 10 seconds does mean its not quick. wink

Kitchski

6,514 posts

230 months

Saturday 20th October 2012
quotequote all
rb5er said:
S10GTA said:
Just because is doesn't do 0-60 in 5 seconds doesn't mean it can't be quick...
Nope but doing 0-60 in 10 seconds does mean its not quick. wink
In fairness It's about 8.5 - 9 seconds. Still not blistering for a 0-60 time, but 0-60 times don't tell you the whole story to be frank. Unless you're in a pub.

rb5er

11,657 posts

171 months

Saturday 20th October 2012
quotequote all
True but they sure are a good indicator. A car that does 60 in 6 seconds is always likely to be much faster in almost all scenarios than one that does it in 9, unless you can point to some examples where this is not the case wink

The suspension technology on these is quite something, but as said it would have been very interesting in a more sporty application.

Kitchski

6,514 posts

230 months

Saturday 20th October 2012
quotequote all
rb5er said:
True but they sure are a good indicator. A car that does 60 in 6 seconds is always likely to be much faster in almost all scenarios than one that does it in 9, unless you can point to some examples where this is not the case wink

The suspension technology on these is quite something, but as said it would have been very interesting in a more sporty application.
They are a good indicator of low-speed acceleration, I agree. I prefer 0-100 for the real deal if we're talking sprinting though.

Thing is if a car can do 60mph in second gear, its 0-60 time will be low (think Citroen Saxo VTS in 7.2secs) but a car that takes 7.3secs including a shift into third is going to be a fair bit quicker in gear than the Saxo I used as an example. It's not your 3 seconds I grant you, but I reckon a gear change could account for 1-1.5secs off the overall time.

S10GTA

Original Poster:

12,645 posts

166 months

Sunday 21st October 2012
quotequote all
rb5er said:
True but they sure are a good indicator. A car that does 60 in 6 seconds is always likely to be much faster in almost all scenarios than one that does it in 9, unless you can point to some examples where this is not the case wink

The suspension technology on these is quite something, but as said it would have been very interesting in a more sporty application.
Not that I can find it currently, but I seem to recall an episode of top gear that showed the Saab and its awesome in gear speed. It's 0-60 time was slow but it was quicker than a super car mid range.

v8will

3,301 posts

195 months

Sunday 21st October 2012
quotequote all
Why did Citroen ditch this sort of suspension tech? Always seemed like a real good USP for the company (along with their well regarded diesels at the time)

Kitchski

6,514 posts

230 months

Sunday 21st October 2012
quotequote all
v8will said:
Why did Citroen ditch this sort of suspension tech? Always seemed like a real good USP for the company (along with their well regarded diesels at the time)
Same reason they killed the C6 off....image. If the badge isn't fashionable in that price-range (£19k in 1996) then no one will be interested unless it's got a German badge. How good the car is is practically irrelevant!

davepoth

29,395 posts

198 months

Sunday 21st October 2012
quotequote all
rb5er said:
True but they sure are a good indicator. A car that does 60 in 6 seconds is always likely to be much faster in almost all scenarios than one that does it in 9, unless you can point to some examples where this is not the case wink
The Citroen Xantia Activa is a very good example of this. I believe there's a thread about it somewhere.

Life Saab Itch

37,068 posts

187 months

Sunday 21st October 2012
quotequote all
Kitchski said:
Life Saab Itch said:
I wonder if the suspension system could be removed and put in a single seater...
Williams tried that one in the early '90's wink

This particular system couldn't be, because it's powered and controlled by the hydropneumatic suspension system and its ECU. If you ran a conventional road spring/shock setup, you'd have to have a secondary system installed to control the hydraulic aspect of the anti-roll. The extra weigh, together with the complexity of the electronics would probably render it pointless, unless you're at the levels of F1 etc.

I think quite a few people are missing the point here. This is a Citroen.....they're not fussed about going really fast. Look at any successful hot hatch Citroen....there's more than a bit of Peugeot DNA underneath it. Any fast Citroen that is a true Citroen is usually only fast in a straight line....more GT cars than racers.
The fact these cars could go stupidly fast around corners was probably a bonus for Citroen. The original design brief was to have superior (read safe as it can be) roadholding in a practical car that retains a decent ride.
Many cars can go around corners with very little roll and probably generate as much G as these do, but the pay-off is solid suspension and a terrible ride. Many other cars ride as smoothly as these do, but fall over when you get to a corner.
The fact that these do both so well is the whole point behind the car. Small hot hatches and sports cars don't use this system because they don't have to....they don't need to have a smooth ride as the potential customer isn't after one.

Or another way to look at it....look at all the companies that have licensed the design for use in their cars today.....Rolls Royce for the Phantom, Land Rover for the Range Rover Sport; all the cars that now use a similar design are trying to retain a smooth ride while being able to take corners. Exactly the same brief the Activa had.
I think you miss my point.


Ok then...Ultima...

Kitchski

6,514 posts

230 months

Sunday 21st October 2012
quotequote all
Life Saab Itch said:
Kitchski said:
Life Saab Itch said:
I wonder if the suspension system could be removed and put in a single seater...
Williams tried that one in the early '90's wink

This particular system couldn't be, because it's powered and controlled by the hydropneumatic suspension system and its ECU. If you ran a conventional road spring/shock setup, you'd have to have a secondary system installed to control the hydraulic aspect of the anti-roll. The extra weigh, together with the complexity of the electronics would probably render it pointless, unless you're at the levels of F1 etc.

I think quite a few people are missing the point here. This is a Citroen.....they're not fussed about going really fast. Look at any successful hot hatch Citroen....there's more than a bit of Peugeot DNA underneath it. Any fast Citroen that is a true Citroen is usually only fast in a straight line....more GT cars than racers.
The fact these cars could go stupidly fast around corners was probably a bonus for Citroen. The original design brief was to have superior (read safe as it can be) roadholding in a practical car that retains a decent ride.
Many cars can go around corners with very little roll and probably generate as much G as these do, but the pay-off is solid suspension and a terrible ride. Many other cars ride as smoothly as these do, but fall over when you get to a corner.
The fact that these do both so well is the whole point behind the car. Small hot hatches and sports cars don't use this system because they don't have to....they don't need to have a smooth ride as the potential customer isn't after one.

Or another way to look at it....look at all the companies that have licensed the design for use in their cars today.....Rolls Royce for the Phantom, Land Rover for the Range Rover Sport; all the cars that now use a similar design are trying to retain a smooth ride while being able to take corners. Exactly the same brief the Activa had.
I think you miss my point.


Ok then...Ultima...
I've definitely missed this one confused

SVX

2,182 posts

210 months

Sunday 21st October 2012
quotequote all
Kitchski said:
Just as an aside, Citroen had the theory of active-suspension back in the '60's and carried out testing on modified DS'.



http://sucksqueezebangblow-juice.blogspot.co.uk/20...

In 1988 they made this fully hydraulic, 4wd, 4-wheel steer, active anti-roll coupe as a concept. They even toyed with the idea of launching a production version a couple of years later. Would've been a good GT coupe and if I won the lottery I'd have parked one next to the Subaru SVX I'd also buy laugh

Edited by Kitchski on Saturday 20th October 23:06
You are a man of taste Sir wink I think that concept car has SVX windows too.

DHE

4,505 posts

189 months

Sunday 21st October 2012
quotequote all
SVX said:
You are a man of taste Sir wink I think that concept car has SVX windows too.
Could it be the SVX has the concept car windows, as the concept car was out three years before the SVX?

The SVX could be a future purchase for S10GTA once he has finished working his way through French cars.

Kitchski

6,514 posts

230 months

Monday 22nd October 2012
quotequote all
DHE said:
SVX said:
You are a man of taste Sir wink I think that concept car has SVX windows too.
Could it be the SVX has the concept car windows, as the concept car was out three years before the SVX?

The SVX could be a future purchase for S10GTA once he has finished working his way through French cars.
I saw an SVX on Thursday last week. Dark green, quite a late one (1995ish - is that late?) I nearly crashed!

jbi

12,668 posts

203 months

Monday 22nd October 2012
quotequote all
S10GTA said:
To you clearly not, to us humble folk its about more than the 0-60 time, and more about the speed the car can corner and the way the low pressure constant torque engine pulls you out of the corner.
well it's quicker than my landy... I'll give you that smile

jbi

12,668 posts

203 months

Monday 22nd October 2012
quotequote all
Kitchski said:
I saw an SVX on Thursday last week. Dark green, quite a late one (1995ish - is that late?) I nearly crashed!
there's one for sale near me just a few miles down the road.

Not entirely sure why... but I really quite fancy it smile

SVX

2,182 posts

210 months

Monday 22nd October 2012
quotequote all
They are wonderful things, fragile gearbox aside. I love mine, once I've built up the cash reserves again, I'll be giving the old girl a sympathetic restoration and a few subtle upgrades.

jbi

12,668 posts

203 months

Monday 22nd October 2012
quotequote all
SVX said:
They are wonderful things, fragile gearbox aside. I love mine, once I've built up the cash reserves again, I'll be giving the old girl a sympathetic restoration and a few subtle upgrades.
I would really like to see that...

I love to see the rarer cars given a bit of TLC