Ferrari F430 Spider
Discussion
Bungleaio said:
Fantastic stuff as always but are Ferrari okay with you ordering scud/16m parts even though you haven't got one? I know some manufacturers will only allow special parts to be ordered if you are an owner and give them the chassis number.
No problems. Only the TCU is a restricted part, but I have multiple sources - mostly in Italy. There is a whole cottage industry over there and it's a case of finding the right people. Scuderia Engine Management Conversion - Motor Looms
The 430 platform uses one Bosch ME7.1.1 per bank and each has two looms: one that Ferrari term an 'injection loom' which includes the spark plugs, MAFs, etc. - basically anything attached to the engine itself (I covered off the injection looms in a previous update, and I am yet to install those). The other is a 'motor loom' which runs down the corresponding rear side of the car and connects ancillary items such as O2 sensors, exhaust valve solenoids, and emissions equipment.
The RH side motor loom is different to the MY08 F430* in the following ways:
*Some pre-MY08 cars use resistors with the fuel pumps.
The LH motor loom contains a two pin connector for the secondary air pump. I will not retrofit this loom because I don't want the added weight of the complete SAI system, which comes in at approximately 3kg. Instead I am installing the rest of the electronics to satisfy ECU error checking and to make it simple to retrofit later on if I decide to.
Scuderia Engine Management Conversion - RH Motor Loom
Whilst visiting family a couple of weeks ago I had a couple of hours spare in the evening which I spent removing the RH rear motor loom. I’ve mentioned before that the tape on the looms isn’t very good because it dries out and falls away, so I’m taking the opportunity to replace all of it with Coroplast 837; a high quality loom tape used by German premium car manufacturers.
The photos below show the loom and the Bosch ME7 ECU plug disassembled, and coils of new wire that I started to add e.g. Blow-By solenoid valve earth to ECU pin 9.
For the new Ion module and SAI solenoid plugs I’m using black conduit, the correct waterproof version of the factory terminals, and matching boots.
I always run CAN lines as a twisted pair. My OH helped me create a few metres of this from regular thinwall cable.
Here is the ECU end of the loom back together and re-wrapped in Coroplast. I carefully removed the original assembly sticker and re-added it when finished – I will update the part number to the 16M version to make future maintenance straight-forward.
ION module data lines ready to be trimmed to length when in the car.
Edit: correcting typos.
The 430 platform uses one Bosch ME7.1.1 per bank and each has two looms: one that Ferrari term an 'injection loom' which includes the spark plugs, MAFs, etc. - basically anything attached to the engine itself (I covered off the injection looms in a previous update, and I am yet to install those). The other is a 'motor loom' which runs down the corresponding rear side of the car and connects ancillary items such as O2 sensors, exhaust valve solenoids, and emissions equipment.
The RH side motor loom is different to the MY08 F430* in the following ways:
- The superfluous heated rear window wiring is removed; obviously not required anyway but strangely included in the Spider specific F430 loom. It is a two pin plug fed from the central loom and earthed on the rear chassis;
- A two pin connector for the Blow-By solenoid valve. This is the red solenoid associated with the oil breather system. A positive feed spliced from the existing loom and a new purple/blue to pin 9 of the ECU for switched earth;
- A five pin connector for ion module data feed comprising a brown/yellow wire spliced to the existing wire between RH ECU pin 37 and the F1 TCU, a CAN C pair (green/white) spliced into the main car CAN C bus, and another (green/white) spliced into the secondary CAN C bus between each ECU and the F1 TCU.
*Some pre-MY08 cars use resistors with the fuel pumps.
The LH motor loom contains a two pin connector for the secondary air pump. I will not retrofit this loom because I don't want the added weight of the complete SAI system, which comes in at approximately 3kg. Instead I am installing the rest of the electronics to satisfy ECU error checking and to make it simple to retrofit later on if I decide to.
Scuderia Engine Management Conversion - RH Motor Loom
Whilst visiting family a couple of weeks ago I had a couple of hours spare in the evening which I spent removing the RH rear motor loom. I’ve mentioned before that the tape on the looms isn’t very good because it dries out and falls away, so I’m taking the opportunity to replace all of it with Coroplast 837; a high quality loom tape used by German premium car manufacturers.
The photos below show the loom and the Bosch ME7 ECU plug disassembled, and coils of new wire that I started to add e.g. Blow-By solenoid valve earth to ECU pin 9.
For the new Ion module and SAI solenoid plugs I’m using black conduit, the correct waterproof version of the factory terminals, and matching boots.
I always run CAN lines as a twisted pair. My OH helped me create a few metres of this from regular thinwall cable.
Here is the ECU end of the loom back together and re-wrapped in Coroplast. I carefully removed the original assembly sticker and re-added it when finished – I will update the part number to the 16M version to make future maintenance straight-forward.
ION module data lines ready to be trimmed to length when in the car.
Edit: correcting typos.
Edited by mwstewart on Tuesday 1st May 22:36
Great thread 
.
Hoping you can help me become re virginised as well!?
We have an ongoing project based on a 575 engine.
We plan to use two 612 engine ecu (originally configured for F1 trans inputs), which are the same basic Bosch spec as yours, to run our engine, but as the engine is not going into a 575 we need to clear/reset these ecu so they can purely just run this engine, and as a manual trans, all as a stand alone set up.
I have both ecu and the engine/sub looms (612 uses all the same sensors/connectors as the 575 and the engine looms are virtually identical), these will be wired into the project cars main loom (f355) for basic power and earths etc once we have got up to speed with the wiring diagrams, the problems I foresee are:-
1...The two ecu will not be getting any "go ahead and start ya bugger" signal from any immobiliser/CAN system at all.
2...They also wont be getting any inputs from any F1 transmission system.
Can you confirm which company you are using for your ecu so we can see if they can reset our ecu to manual spec and bypass any immobiliser and CAN requirements.
Also appreciate any input you can have on our needs, as you seem to know these ecu well.
The original plan was to use an aftermarket ecu and loom to run the engine, but this all came along at a decent price and it would be good to keep as o/e as possible.
.Hoping you can help me become re virginised as well!?
We have an ongoing project based on a 575 engine.
We plan to use two 612 engine ecu (originally configured for F1 trans inputs), which are the same basic Bosch spec as yours, to run our engine, but as the engine is not going into a 575 we need to clear/reset these ecu so they can purely just run this engine, and as a manual trans, all as a stand alone set up.
I have both ecu and the engine/sub looms (612 uses all the same sensors/connectors as the 575 and the engine looms are virtually identical), these will be wired into the project cars main loom (f355) for basic power and earths etc once we have got up to speed with the wiring diagrams, the problems I foresee are:-
1...The two ecu will not be getting any "go ahead and start ya bugger" signal from any immobiliser/CAN system at all.
2...They also wont be getting any inputs from any F1 transmission system.
Can you confirm which company you are using for your ecu so we can see if they can reset our ecu to manual spec and bypass any immobiliser and CAN requirements.
Also appreciate any input you can have on our needs, as you seem to know these ecu well.
The original plan was to use an aftermarket ecu and loom to run the engine, but this all came along at a decent price and it would be good to keep as o/e as possible.
Edited by PAUL500 on Tuesday 26th December 23:05
Thank you.
F1 to manual config should be OK - I've had it performed on F430 ECUs. Email info@ferrarioc.com and ask for Rod. I'd appreciate it if you would mention my name (Mark Stewart) because it may help me in the future. Rod can also virginise ME7 Ferrari ECUs; I've just had a couple done but I'm not sure if he does immo off. If there's anyone who can, it is him...
There is one aspect that will be a case of trial and error: depending on the year of 612 there were either Sport and CST Off buttons, or a Manettino with Comfort, Sport, and CST Off settings. Each type is linked to a steering wheel node (NVO). I know from experience that - on the F430 at least - the engine ECUs log a code if an initialisation broadcast isn't received from the NVO and the ABS module (NFR).
I think you will get the engine running OK but it depends what you are happy with in terms of codes logged and whether the check engine light must be operational.
F1 to manual config should be OK - I've had it performed on F430 ECUs. Email info@ferrarioc.com and ask for Rod. I'd appreciate it if you would mention my name (Mark Stewart) because it may help me in the future. Rod can also virginise ME7 Ferrari ECUs; I've just had a couple done but I'm not sure if he does immo off. If there's anyone who can, it is him...
There is one aspect that will be a case of trial and error: depending on the year of 612 there were either Sport and CST Off buttons, or a Manettino with Comfort, Sport, and CST Off settings. Each type is linked to a steering wheel node (NVO). I know from experience that - on the F430 at least - the engine ECUs log a code if an initialisation broadcast isn't received from the NVO and the ABS module (NFR).
I think you will get the engine running OK but it depends what you are happy with in terms of codes logged and whether the check engine light must be operational.
PAUL500 said:
Great thread .
Hoping you can help me become re virginised as well!?
We have an ongoing project based on a 575 engine.
We plan to use two 612 engine ecu (originally configured for F1 trans inputs), which are the same basic Bosch spec as yours, to run our engine, but as the engine is not going into a 575 we need to clear/reset these ecu so they can purely just run this engine, and as a manual trans, all as a stand alone set up.
I have both ecu and the engine/sub looms (612 uses all the same sensors/connectors as the 575 and the engine looms are virtually identical), these will be wired into the project cars main loom (f355) for basic power and earths etc once we have got up to speed with the wiring diagrams, the problems I foresee are:-
1...The two ecu will not be getting any "go ahead and start ya bugger" signal from any immobiliser/CAN system at all.
2...They also wont be getting any inputs from any F1 transmission system.
Can you confirm which company you are using for your ecu so we can see if they can reset our ecu to manual spec and bypass any immobiliser and CAN requirements.
Also appreciate any input you can have on our needs, as you seem to know these ecu well.
The original plan was to use an aftermarket ecu and loom to run the engine, but this all came along at a decent price and it would be good to keep as o/e as possible.
This is also a project we need to see a thread on.Hoping you can help me become re virginised as well!?
We have an ongoing project based on a 575 engine.
We plan to use two 612 engine ecu (originally configured for F1 trans inputs), which are the same basic Bosch spec as yours, to run our engine, but as the engine is not going into a 575 we need to clear/reset these ecu so they can purely just run this engine, and as a manual trans, all as a stand alone set up.
I have both ecu and the engine/sub looms (612 uses all the same sensors/connectors as the 575 and the engine looms are virtually identical), these will be wired into the project cars main loom (f355) for basic power and earths etc once we have got up to speed with the wiring diagrams, the problems I foresee are:-
1...The two ecu will not be getting any "go ahead and start ya bugger" signal from any immobiliser/CAN system at all.
2...They also wont be getting any inputs from any F1 transmission system.
Can you confirm which company you are using for your ecu so we can see if they can reset our ecu to manual spec and bypass any immobiliser and CAN requirements.
Also appreciate any input you can have on our needs, as you seem to know these ecu well.
The original plan was to use an aftermarket ecu and loom to run the engine, but this all came along at a decent price and it would be good to keep as o/e as possible.
Edited by PAUL500 on Tuesday 26th December 23:05
Thanks for the contact, it will be a few months before we are at that stage yet, but I will indeed mention you passed on their details.
We have a build thread buried away on fchat, but would rather not post a link on ph, there are to many "armchair experts" on here these days trying to slate projects, whilst never having a go themselves. Love this thread though, it gives me motivation.
Not to concerned about logged false errors as it wont be running any cel lights etc so they will just sit there doing nothing anyway, as long as it runs and drives correctly thats all we need for now.
We have a build thread buried away on fchat, but would rather not post a link on ph, there are to many "armchair experts" on here these days trying to slate projects, whilst never having a go themselves. Love this thread though, it gives me motivation.
Not to concerned about logged false errors as it wont be running any cel lights etc so they will just sit there doing nothing anyway, as long as it runs and drives correctly thats all we need for now.
PAUL500 said:
Thanks for the contact, it will be a few months before we are at that stage yet, but I will indeed mention you passed on their details.
We have a build thread buried away on fchat, but would rather not post a link on ph, there are to many "armchair experts" on here these days trying to slate projects, whilst never having a go themselves. Love this thread though, it gives me motivation.
Not to concerned about logged false errors as it wont be running any cel lights etc so they will just sit there doing nothing anyway, as long as it runs and drives correctly thats all we need for now.
No problem. We have a build thread buried away on fchat, but would rather not post a link on ph, there are to many "armchair experts" on here these days trying to slate projects, whilst never having a go themselves. Love this thread though, it gives me motivation.
Not to concerned about logged false errors as it wont be running any cel lights etc so they will just sit there doing nothing anyway, as long as it runs and drives correctly thats all we need for now.
I know what you mean - General Gassing is depressing! Reader's Cars still has proper enthusiasts though
I love Christmas but it's nice to spend a little time away from food and drink, and on the car! The Scuderia Injection looms I purchased were nearly new but I did take the opportunity to strip off all the OEM tape and replace it with high quality Coroplast cloth tape, which shouldn't fade, fray, and peel off.
I have fitted the new variator solenoids, refurbished cam covers with new gaskets, injection looms, and all stainless steel hardware including the loom P clips. I also re-installed the RH Motor loom. I enjoy both working on the car as well as the end result, but this job was at times unpleasant because of limited access on the Spider!
High temp cable ties are employed in various places such as the heat shield on the outboard variator wiring. I have ordered a set of PEEK clips to replace the OEM stuff that was removed.
I have fitted the new variator solenoids, refurbished cam covers with new gaskets, injection looms, and all stainless steel hardware including the loom P clips. I also re-installed the RH Motor loom. I enjoy both working on the car as well as the end result, but this job was at times unpleasant because of limited access on the Spider!
High temp cable ties are employed in various places such as the heat shield on the outboard variator wiring. I have ordered a set of PEEK clips to replace the OEM stuff that was removed.
Edited by mwstewart on Tuesday 2nd January 22:21
16M tunnel loom going in. It contains the power source & relay part of the secondary air injection electrical system, and the fuse and two pin power supply connector for the ion module.
I've gained a 40amp Maxi fuse and a black 50amp relay (not the red F1 relay I accidentally identified with the green arrow!) for the SAI system. F430's are built with a spare mounting stud for the SAI relay because emissions standards in some markets mean the system is required. The Scuderia Bosch engine ECUs are now installed - note the 'F131LP' code on the left bank ECU in shot, and also the E-Diff module.
F131 = code for the original 360 chassis ;
E = 'Evoluzione' (evolution) - the modified chassis for the F430;
LP = The Scuderia code suffix. I don't know the official term, but I estimate 'Leggero prestazione' (lightweight performance).
A very minor point; I tracked down the fuse type that Ferrari use which feature an opaque rather than translucent plastic shroud. The manufacturer is MTA, Italy.
Interestingly, the Scuderia uses aluminium rather than steel brackets for the electrical modules. They are, of course, lighter! I have swapped my original brackets for them.
All in the conversion to Scuderia management is weight neutral, so I haven't recorded everything in my sheet: the F430's four knock sensors with shielded wiring back to the ECUs, and heavier steel brackets that were removed are offset by the Scuderia ion module and relay loom. I think that's excellent given the significant improvement in knock detection.
I estimate a relaxed weekend's worth of work away from testing the new management - I can't wait for that.
N.B. excuse the low quality photos.
I've gained a 40amp Maxi fuse and a black 50amp relay (not the red F1 relay I accidentally identified with the green arrow!) for the SAI system. F430's are built with a spare mounting stud for the SAI relay because emissions standards in some markets mean the system is required. The Scuderia Bosch engine ECUs are now installed - note the 'F131LP' code on the left bank ECU in shot, and also the E-Diff module.
F131 = code for the original 360 chassis ;
E = 'Evoluzione' (evolution) - the modified chassis for the F430;
LP = The Scuderia code suffix. I don't know the official term, but I estimate 'Leggero prestazione' (lightweight performance).
A very minor point; I tracked down the fuse type that Ferrari use which feature an opaque rather than translucent plastic shroud. The manufacturer is MTA, Italy.
Interestingly, the Scuderia uses aluminium rather than steel brackets for the electrical modules. They are, of course, lighter! I have swapped my original brackets for them.
All in the conversion to Scuderia management is weight neutral, so I haven't recorded everything in my sheet: the F430's four knock sensors with shielded wiring back to the ECUs, and heavier steel brackets that were removed are offset by the Scuderia ion module and relay loom. I think that's excellent given the significant improvement in knock detection.
I estimate a relaxed weekend's worth of work away from testing the new management - I can't wait for that.
N.B. excuse the low quality photos.
No, not got the money to buy it but enjoyed watching the sale as they are one of my favorite cars.
I think you car is actually a lot better than a Scuderia, I mean a lot better. Heaven knows how you have the time, energy and patience to do it.
I cannot begin to imagine how much it would cost to get a Ferrari specialist to carry out the work or even get close to the attention to detail you have lavished over the car, easily double the car value IMO.
Do carry on.
I think you car is actually a lot better than a Scuderia, I mean a lot better. Heaven knows how you have the time, energy and patience to do it.
I cannot begin to imagine how much it would cost to get a Ferrari specialist to carry out the work or even get close to the attention to detail you have lavished over the car, easily double the car value IMO.
Do carry on.
kingkongsfinger said:
No, not got the money to buy it but enjoyed watching the sale as they are one of my favorite cars.
I think you car is actually a lot better than a Scuderia, I mean a lot better. Heaven knows how you have the time, energy and patience to do it.
I cannot begin to imagine how much it would cost to get a Ferrari specialist to carry out the work or even get close to the attention to detail you have lavished over the car, easily double the car value IMO.
Do carry on.
Thanks. The Scuderia, a 458, a manual F430, or the route I've taken were my options a couple of years ago. I'm now pretty much at the dream mid engine V8 spec I had at the outset - the top-down experience in a rigid chassis is exhilarating. I think you car is actually a lot better than a Scuderia, I mean a lot better. Heaven knows how you have the time, energy and patience to do it.
I cannot begin to imagine how much it would cost to get a Ferrari specialist to carry out the work or even get close to the attention to detail you have lavished over the car, easily double the car value IMO.
Do carry on.
My ultimate would be the current car with an engine rebuild but first I'll see how quick the car is with on the new management.
I've also pieced together the (discontinued) parts needed for a manual conversion - hedging my bets for the future if I get bored of F1!
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