Who'd Want a Triumph?
Discussion
As always it is nice to reflect on the past and it seems I may have been doing this recently.
This story is about how I dabbled with Triumphs, starting off with one of the said trickier cars to deal with and what else I bought with the badge on along the way. My mindset at the time was not one of today it has to be said but elements do remain unfortunately. It is a tale of how I went from A to C, back to A, and a few other letters along the way instead of simply going from A to B. But I did learn quite a bit along the way and maybe you cannot put a price on experience, even if you do sometimes repeat your mistakes.
Some of you may recall that I had an MGB Sebring which I sold instead of getting it repainted. In hindsight I am glad that I did. It went from looking like this under my hands in its final incarnation:
To this, getting the makeover it desperately needed:
It had the looks to go with the mods under the skin, to make for a great package.
With that sold I ended up using my new 'toy' in the form of a sedate(ish) 2005 Ford Mondeo Ghia X 3.0 V6 as daily with it racking up many many miles. So of course the chase was on for another motor:
I always wanted a Mini but was not willing to pay the rates for a good one. One day however my fate was sealed upon seeing a Triumph Stag for sale being sold by late owner's son. I always wanted a Stag but previously shied away from them due to their reputation of being awkward to live with, tales of rust woes and engine trouble, usually with it being serious.
The late owner was held in high regard by various clubs and was seen to be a bit of a genius from what I could tell. This car also came fitted with a much coveted ZF 4 speed automatic gearbox conversion to replace the archaic Borg Warner Type 35 and 65 3 speed gearboxes.
Upon going to view the car it was as stated in the description a car with a respray, albeit not the best one, a retrimmed interior, good roof, little rust present and generally running. Naturally I ignored the misfiring engine, the lack of any real braking and the car have less than a month's MOT.
Things should have been rosy right? I shall say more later but for now here are a few shots of what I ended up with once I got the car back home:
This story is about how I dabbled with Triumphs, starting off with one of the said trickier cars to deal with and what else I bought with the badge on along the way. My mindset at the time was not one of today it has to be said but elements do remain unfortunately. It is a tale of how I went from A to C, back to A, and a few other letters along the way instead of simply going from A to B. But I did learn quite a bit along the way and maybe you cannot put a price on experience, even if you do sometimes repeat your mistakes.
Some of you may recall that I had an MGB Sebring which I sold instead of getting it repainted. In hindsight I am glad that I did. It went from looking like this under my hands in its final incarnation:
To this, getting the makeover it desperately needed:
It had the looks to go with the mods under the skin, to make for a great package.
With that sold I ended up using my new 'toy' in the form of a sedate(ish) 2005 Ford Mondeo Ghia X 3.0 V6 as daily with it racking up many many miles. So of course the chase was on for another motor:
I always wanted a Mini but was not willing to pay the rates for a good one. One day however my fate was sealed upon seeing a Triumph Stag for sale being sold by late owner's son. I always wanted a Stag but previously shied away from them due to their reputation of being awkward to live with, tales of rust woes and engine trouble, usually with it being serious.
The late owner was held in high regard by various clubs and was seen to be a bit of a genius from what I could tell. This car also came fitted with a much coveted ZF 4 speed automatic gearbox conversion to replace the archaic Borg Warner Type 35 and 65 3 speed gearboxes.
Upon going to view the car it was as stated in the description a car with a respray, albeit not the best one, a retrimmed interior, good roof, little rust present and generally running. Naturally I ignored the misfiring engine, the lack of any real braking and the car have less than a month's MOT.
Things should have been rosy right? I shall say more later but for now here are a few shots of what I ended up with once I got the car back home:
It is easy to say that a few saw this coming.
Despite the car being owned by good hands the car certainly did not drive great on the journey back, and worse than when I saw it!
The car seemed to have zero pull, with the engine really struggling to get anywhere with it misfiring, almost as if the brakes were on all round the car, in addition to the brakes being almost non existant! Even at 15MPH the car was a struggle to slow down! I am told that it was throwing out black smoke from the rear of the car. A few miles later and the struggle was over when I heard a bang and I pulled the car over and had the car towed home. It did however look fine as you could see in the shots above!
Not all was good though. The car was horrendously difficult to push forwards with the propshaft connected, something in the gearbox stopped it from going backwards to the extent that would stall, and I still had an issue with the engine running terribly!
With this in mind I soon got to work.
The engine clearly had been a problem child, with it sporting new Champion 8mmm leads with a rotor arm and cap. It also had resistor plugs with a far too large a cap (10mm) when it should have had a non resistor plugs with a 0.6mm gap. Off I went to get the cheapest NGK BP5Es I could get mind hands on before the spending spree would begin. New leads, cap and rotor arm were also sourced to rule out the ignition side.
At this point I really should have called it a day but I was stuck with an immobile Stag. My aim was to get the car's engine and gearbox done, as it was doing a great job of being a paperweight! In hindsight I should have converted the car to a manual but that is history and all that.
Off the car went to a gearbox specialist in Birmingham where he noticed a number of iffy things about the conversion (it was not the tidiest!). Upon rebuilding the gearbox he said the 'box had alot of swarf inside, more than he had seen in a number of gearboxes.
It was trailered back home but I could tell that it was far far freer in the drivetrain department. It rolled as opposed to struggling to move! Even the misfiring engine stopped misfiring over 2,000rpm and took the car along at a nice pace!
Then it was time to tackle the brakes. The rear brake cylinder had completely seized up. Not a problem I thought, I will source another one! Upon fitting that it still did not work but the shoes were now moving! It turned out that the flexi pipe had collapsed and judging by the state of the cylinder it probably had collapsed for quite some time. Remember the car had an MOT
.
The misfiring engine puzzle was also solved ; the Brake servo had a monumental vacuum leak, thus why the brakes were also doing nothing.
Upon sourcing new brake lines and a servo I had a running engine and brakes that were a far cry from the 'poor' brakes that Stags are meant to come with:
So at this stage I ended up with a Stag that ran in a fashion and it could at least move or stop. But there is still more to come.
Despite the car being owned by good hands the car certainly did not drive great on the journey back, and worse than when I saw it!
The car seemed to have zero pull, with the engine really struggling to get anywhere with it misfiring, almost as if the brakes were on all round the car, in addition to the brakes being almost non existant! Even at 15MPH the car was a struggle to slow down! I am told that it was throwing out black smoke from the rear of the car. A few miles later and the struggle was over when I heard a bang and I pulled the car over and had the car towed home. It did however look fine as you could see in the shots above!
Not all was good though. The car was horrendously difficult to push forwards with the propshaft connected, something in the gearbox stopped it from going backwards to the extent that would stall, and I still had an issue with the engine running terribly!
With this in mind I soon got to work.
The engine clearly had been a problem child, with it sporting new Champion 8mmm leads with a rotor arm and cap. It also had resistor plugs with a far too large a cap (10mm) when it should have had a non resistor plugs with a 0.6mm gap. Off I went to get the cheapest NGK BP5Es I could get mind hands on before the spending spree would begin. New leads, cap and rotor arm were also sourced to rule out the ignition side.
At this point I really should have called it a day but I was stuck with an immobile Stag. My aim was to get the car's engine and gearbox done, as it was doing a great job of being a paperweight! In hindsight I should have converted the car to a manual but that is history and all that.
Off the car went to a gearbox specialist in Birmingham where he noticed a number of iffy things about the conversion (it was not the tidiest!). Upon rebuilding the gearbox he said the 'box had alot of swarf inside, more than he had seen in a number of gearboxes.
It was trailered back home but I could tell that it was far far freer in the drivetrain department. It rolled as opposed to struggling to move! Even the misfiring engine stopped misfiring over 2,000rpm and took the car along at a nice pace!
Then it was time to tackle the brakes. The rear brake cylinder had completely seized up. Not a problem I thought, I will source another one! Upon fitting that it still did not work but the shoes were now moving! It turned out that the flexi pipe had collapsed and judging by the state of the cylinder it probably had collapsed for quite some time. Remember the car had an MOT
.The misfiring engine puzzle was also solved ; the Brake servo had a monumental vacuum leak, thus why the brakes were also doing nothing.
Upon sourcing new brake lines and a servo I had a running engine and brakes that were a far cry from the 'poor' brakes that Stags are meant to come with:
So at this stage I ended up with a Stag that ran in a fashion and it could at least move or stop. But there is still more to come.
So, for anyone looking where was I? Ah yes, I sent the car down to a friend of mine for some minor welding work.
When I say minor welding work it appears that the holes became a little bigger! What was the start of a minor floor repair on both corners became something far more! The Stag had rotted out in the typical place in the floor/inner sill ; water had collected and rotted out the pair in a small area.
It was not pleasant to say the least to see a good chunk of the car cut out:
It was certainly not pleaseant seeing both sides of the car torn apart, especially since the outer sills were only a few years old!
But metal was soon let back into the car once more:
At the same time the car was cleaned underneath in a number of places with underseal/stonechip applied correctly ; this car was not bought to simple sit in the garage!
Now that the bottom of the car did not resemble a sieve quite so much I simply had to keep the car driving straight! During the MOT I was failed on the steering shaft having play. With that diagnosed £80 of the queen's finest was spent on a new steering shaft. While the steering did improve there was still a little play in the steering. However, it was just enough for me to secure the car a ticket.
It was time to enjoy the car driving properly for possibly the first time in a long time. The reasons for which shall be revealed soon. At least it looked good ; sort of, well, with my rose tinted specs it did anyway!
The eagle eyed amongst you will have noticed that the front grille is not in some of the shots. It was found that most of the tags had broken off or been fitted very poorly in the past. Thus I was on the hunt for a replacement or repairing mine. That is before you get to some of the poorly fitted fittings during a renovation previously on the car. Considering that the car had probably not seen a straight MOT for quite a good chunk of time it was the least of my worries.
During the time I bought the car MOT history requests were not as easily available as they were now. I however found that there was a pattern between most of the MOTs from a Peugeot dealership near Derby way, where there was not a single failure over 4 years until I got the car.
However, most will know that a Triumph, especially a Stag will not let you off that lightly! It was still awkward to start from cold, and there would be more issues to come.
When I say minor welding work it appears that the holes became a little bigger! What was the start of a minor floor repair on both corners became something far more! The Stag had rotted out in the typical place in the floor/inner sill ; water had collected and rotted out the pair in a small area.
It was not pleasant to say the least to see a good chunk of the car cut out:
It was certainly not pleaseant seeing both sides of the car torn apart, especially since the outer sills were only a few years old!
But metal was soon let back into the car once more:
At the same time the car was cleaned underneath in a number of places with underseal/stonechip applied correctly ; this car was not bought to simple sit in the garage!
Now that the bottom of the car did not resemble a sieve quite so much I simply had to keep the car driving straight! During the MOT I was failed on the steering shaft having play. With that diagnosed £80 of the queen's finest was spent on a new steering shaft. While the steering did improve there was still a little play in the steering. However, it was just enough for me to secure the car a ticket.
It was time to enjoy the car driving properly for possibly the first time in a long time. The reasons for which shall be revealed soon. At least it looked good ; sort of, well, with my rose tinted specs it did anyway!
The eagle eyed amongst you will have noticed that the front grille is not in some of the shots. It was found that most of the tags had broken off or been fitted very poorly in the past. Thus I was on the hunt for a replacement or repairing mine. That is before you get to some of the poorly fitted fittings during a renovation previously on the car. Considering that the car had probably not seen a straight MOT for quite a good chunk of time it was the least of my worries.
During the time I bought the car MOT history requests were not as easily available as they were now. I however found that there was a pattern between most of the MOTs from a Peugeot dealership near Derby way, where there was not a single failure over 4 years until I got the car.
However, most will know that a Triumph, especially a Stag will not let you off that lightly! It was still awkward to start from cold, and there would be more issues to come.
Great story so far! Looking forward to next instalment!
I've been through a similar experience with my MGB GT, a few niggles aside its basically finished now after far too much £££ (well, as far as a classic can be finished)
I've been really tempted by a stag in the past but have always chickened out due to their reputation! However nothing beats the sound of that glorious, yet temperamental triumph V8!
Despite all, I'm sure it will be worth it when it's running well again, plus it's always more satisfying doing it yourself rather than buying an immaculate one!
I've been through a similar experience with my MGB GT, a few niggles aside its basically finished now after far too much £££ (well, as far as a classic can be finished)
I've been really tempted by a stag in the past but have always chickened out due to their reputation! However nothing beats the sound of that glorious, yet temperamental triumph V8!
Despite all, I'm sure it will be worth it when it's running well again, plus it's always more satisfying doing it yourself rather than buying an immaculate one!
Db1904 said:
Great story so far! Looking forward to next instalment!
I've been through a similar experience with my MGB GT, a few niggles aside its basically finished now after far too much £££ (well, as far as a classic can be finished)
I've been really tempted by a stag in the past but have always chickened out due to their reputation! However nothing beats the sound of that glorious, yet temperamental triumph V8!
Despite all, I'm sure it will be worth it when it's running well again, plus it's always more satisfying doing it yourself rather than buying an immaculate one!
Many thanks, I do try to make the stories a little more engaging these days. Make no mistake, I love my technicalities but the brain needs something more to keep it awakeI've been through a similar experience with my MGB GT, a few niggles aside its basically finished now after far too much £££ (well, as far as a classic can be finished)
I've been really tempted by a stag in the past but have always chickened out due to their reputation! However nothing beats the sound of that glorious, yet temperamental triumph V8!
Despite all, I'm sure it will be worth it when it's running well again, plus it's always more satisfying doing it yourself rather than buying an immaculate one!
Hopefully my tale of Stag ownership will not put you off too much. This thread so far dates to when I owned the car in 2011, and is now probably up to around early 2012. While the Stag engine does indeed have a reputation as being very awkward you shall have to see how the thread progresses
>As for the last statement, I am still making my mind up there!
TR4man said:
I remember some of those pictures from the SOC forum (I'm sad I know) - where you a one time contributor?
I was indeed once an SOC member where I probably did bore a few members with my tales of woe regarding the Stag. Are you TR4A man on there as well?Seeing as I have to dash out momentarily now seemed like a good time to go back to where I was talking about the joy and hardship of owning a cheap Stag. It cost me £2k to buy originally, but of course the costs do soon build up!
Prior to the car getting MOT'd I flushed the engine's cooling system out to within an inch of its life. Some called me overcautious, others called me stupid. I however was determined to not let the Stag's (or should I say Snag's?) reputation get the better of me Sure enough, plenty of orange nastiness came out of the radiator upon flushing but the engine was was surprisingly clear. What was also a surprise was the lack of a thermostat despite it being SOC owned for almost 5 years from what I could tell.
This is bad news on a MkII since the thermostat also blocks off the bypass pipe, which aids engine warmup times. However, having the engine ingest uncooled coolant did not strike me as a great idea. With that in mind, the correct thermostat was installed in addition to new hoses throughought. OE hoses, they should be fine right? At the time they seemed to be!
One ongoing issue with the car were the plethora of chocolate block connectors about the place. I often hear people saying 'mine work fine', but have rarely seen this myself. The car had a very annoying habit of simply killing all of the electrics without warning, and the problem did become so bad that it sounded like a bit of a steel drumset inside the car with all of the relays being on for a split second and then off the next despite the ignition being on! After I resoldered the poor connections this massively improved the state of the car reliability.
Stags are known for making the ubiquitous V8 sound, which indeed is glorious to hear, and almost hypnotic if I do not say so myself. Mine however was far from this on a few occasions and more like a Bez after he had experienced a few too many lines! It ran of over half of the cylinders when cold and it misfired above 4krpm when hot! Maybe ideal for many owners to simply take their car down to a classic car event or show and simply call it an 'old car fault', but not for me! Even if the car desperately needed a new hood, a severe vibration issue fixing, the interior finishing off I simply wanted to use the car as much as a daily as I could! Yes, logic had truly gone out of the window. It appeared that the Stag certainly had me under its spell and got truly under my skin. The noise and the surprisingly modern handling and ride characteristics were had ones to ignore, and a league away from most classics I had previously been in!
"Check the ignition, it 's rarely the carbs" is often a much quoted phrase, when carburetors are misdiagnosed. With the ignition system receiving new Stag HT leads, rotor arm, cap and a new coil with a set of NGK BP5E plugs of varying origins (1 half were made in Japan, the other half France...) I was fairly confident that the cause of the fault had been found. Time however would tell whether I was right. The car after all was starting better too! Even the old Pertronix system appeared to be working well. It was time to look at the carbs. Out came the carb spray and a Stromberg needle adjuster. Immediately I saw a multitude of issues with the carbs.
-The inlet gaskets were leaking terrible and causing a large air leak - It is a miracle I was able to balance the carbs sensibly!
-One of the dashpot seals were shot, meaning that it leaked out engine oil into the carb over a period of half a day. This made quite a difference to the cold running of the car
-Both spindles had air leaks
The above for me sealed their fate as having them labelled as needing a rebuild. I saw a few choices in my mind at the time
-Refurbish the carbs ; Yes they were factory and liked by many Stag owners but even the refurbished sets appeared not to be trouble free
-Try a Weber 38DGMS carb kit (ala the one used on the Ford Essex 'Free Litas') Research showed they were good but again with a few teething problems.
-Get a secondhand Holley - Alot of the bad press from Holleys on Stags as far as I could tell appeared to come from owners buying ones off ebay and then spending forever getting them to work. It seemed from the MGB days this was no dissimilar to people buying secondhand Weber DCOEs in all honesty
-Get a Monarch Holley carb kit new. These conversions seemed to be very well thought out, even at the little details and seemed to run well. Cheap they were not however. I could have had hired a lady of the night for a week with the cost of that! Stag owners however, seemed to cite the secondhand stories, and say that one should only use Strombergs ; I was not keen on doing this with most of the stories I read! Forgive me if the above 'tried & not so tested' route seems familiar
.I was however after reliability, and I am always intrigued to see what improvements can be brought to the car.
With that in mind my fate was sealed:
Yes, it was predictable but I was a bit of a sucker for a Holley and they always seemed to be the carb of choice on most V8s, so I figured 'What's the worst that could happen'?
Off came the Strommies:
On went the American machinery:
'What's the worst that could happen?' Not alot it seemed. My fuel economy did not go to pot as many said unless I was in town, but then I enjoyed putting my foot down more now that I could, so maybe that played a part! The cold starting once I had master the rudimentary choke on a Holley made the car a piece of cake to start in any weather conditions (basically, you pull the choke all of the way out, pump the accelerator once, fire it up, and immediately start putting choke back in slowly until the car is idling at 1200rpm, and that's it!) Drive the car after that! The response of the car picked up a treat too! Who cared if it didn't look as so to a show and shine judge?
Despite this the misfire still hadn't gone when at 4kRPM with my foot flat to the floor., and there were still other issues in the way which were testing my patience. Would there ever be light at the end of the tunnel. To only do the way for the exhaust note and the great package of a car!
The story was left with a misfire over 4kRPM under hard throttle being present with it spitting out of the exhaust. It actually got worse the warmer the engine bay got! I also noticed that the wonderful 12V County branded coil was getting hot! Out went the County coil and in went back in the Bosch Red coil that I kept. The misfire went away or so I thought! It would eventually rear it's head a little later but I shall leave that until later .
The electrics also gave me issues. Now and again the car would not start at all. I noticed that the car came with a Tony Hart starter relay conversion which had been wired out of the loom. This was wired back into the car since it brings a number of benefits (it gives the starter terminal a full battery supply, and not something has had the voltage reduced via switches etc.) and look further. The solenoid terminal of the starter motor had been damaged. Whether it was down to the gearbox swap or simply old age I will not know. After I soldered the terminal back on the car once again became a reliable starter.
At the same time I also purchased a Stag hard top so that the car was friendlier to use during winter. It really did help when things got cold, espeically with my threadbare soft top, which was more like a sieve, and one which was coming away from the frame!
Those were not the only issues. The car had a serious vibration above 50MPH. It was so bad that you could not hear yourself think. I have had knackered driveshafts in cars, and bent wheels but no vibration has ever been as bad as what the Stag had! Friends didn't believe me until I took them out in the car and a specialist really got worried when he drove it! He did however find that the output shaft flange from the gearbox was free to move about back and forth! Back the car went to the gearbox specialist. Despite the issue being fixed the car still tried to shake itself to bits above 50MPH! This car certainly was not built for motorways it seemed!
I looked into the diff angles being iffy in addition to the gearbox mounts being suspect! In the hope that a manual propshaft would be the same as an auto one I took a chance on a cheap Rimmer Bros CV jointed propshaft which I saw for sale on their website as an offer! The collection of Stag parts was certainly building up!
[img]http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a68/randhawac/Cars/Stag/Propshaft/New%20Prop%20items/DSC_21212.jpg[img]
One good thing about the car vibrating horrifically at 50MPH was that the diff whine was almost unoticable! Thus I also bought an allegedly whine free diff since I had heard that many rebuilt diffs were not whine free in addition to an steering rack to get rid of some of the play in my steering system:
The spending however did not stop there. My wood (don't laugh now!) was not in the best of States in the Stag. When a local breaker was selling the wood complete with clocks in great condition I had to buy them! My oh my did they did not half look superb!
At the same time I checked out the wheels. Despite being the arcetypal and only wheel you should fit to a Stag many of the wheels were drilled incorrectly! Maybe the wheel workers at GKN went out on the lash too many times back then! Sure enough when I checked the wheels they were all running a little off centre! When a friend mentioned that he was selling a set of old school Rays wheels I decided to take a look at them and see how they would work on the car. I almost pleaded with him to let me borrow one! Eventually he did back down:
Spare with the correct sized tyre vs. the Rays 15" item:
But would this cure vibration?
.The electrics also gave me issues. Now and again the car would not start at all. I noticed that the car came with a Tony Hart starter relay conversion which had been wired out of the loom. This was wired back into the car since it brings a number of benefits (it gives the starter terminal a full battery supply, and not something has had the voltage reduced via switches etc.) and look further. The solenoid terminal of the starter motor had been damaged. Whether it was down to the gearbox swap or simply old age I will not know. After I soldered the terminal back on the car once again became a reliable starter.
At the same time I also purchased a Stag hard top so that the car was friendlier to use during winter. It really did help when things got cold, espeically with my threadbare soft top, which was more like a sieve, and one which was coming away from the frame!
Those were not the only issues. The car had a serious vibration above 50MPH. It was so bad that you could not hear yourself think. I have had knackered driveshafts in cars, and bent wheels but no vibration has ever been as bad as what the Stag had! Friends didn't believe me until I took them out in the car and a specialist really got worried when he drove it! He did however find that the output shaft flange from the gearbox was free to move about back and forth! Back the car went to the gearbox specialist. Despite the issue being fixed the car still tried to shake itself to bits above 50MPH! This car certainly was not built for motorways it seemed!
I looked into the diff angles being iffy in addition to the gearbox mounts being suspect! In the hope that a manual propshaft would be the same as an auto one I took a chance on a cheap Rimmer Bros CV jointed propshaft which I saw for sale on their website as an offer! The collection of Stag parts was certainly building up!
[img]http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a68/randhawac/Cars/Stag/Propshaft/New%20Prop%20items/DSC_21212.jpg[img]
One good thing about the car vibrating horrifically at 50MPH was that the diff whine was almost unoticable! Thus I also bought an allegedly whine free diff since I had heard that many rebuilt diffs were not whine free in addition to an steering rack to get rid of some of the play in my steering system:
The spending however did not stop there. My wood (don't laugh now!) was not in the best of States in the Stag. When a local breaker was selling the wood complete with clocks in great condition I had to buy them! My oh my did they did not half look superb!
At the same time I checked out the wheels. Despite being the arcetypal and only wheel you should fit to a Stag many of the wheels were drilled incorrectly! Maybe the wheel workers at GKN went out on the lash too many times back then! Sure enough when I checked the wheels they were all running a little off centre! When a friend mentioned that he was selling a set of old school Rays wheels I decided to take a look at them and see how they would work on the car. I almost pleaded with him to let me borrow one! Eventually he did back down:
Spare with the correct sized tyre vs. the Rays 15" item:
But would this cure vibration?
And did it? Do tell.
Fascinating thread as I'd always wanted a Stag in a previous life. I was lucky enough to drive my boss's Stag at my Saturday job not long after he'd bought it. He just gave me the key and said "There you go, take it out for a spin". Brilliant! Looking back now it was probably only a couple of years old at the time. Lovely car, apart from the bright orange colour, but I never owned one. (Why do most Stags come in garish primary colours?) My aspirations have moved on now but my head still turns at the sight of a really good one.
Keep the details coming please. Thoroughly enjoyable thread.
Fascinating thread as I'd always wanted a Stag in a previous life. I was lucky enough to drive my boss's Stag at my Saturday job not long after he'd bought it. He just gave me the key and said "There you go, take it out for a spin". Brilliant! Looking back now it was probably only a couple of years old at the time. Lovely car, apart from the bright orange colour, but I never owned one. (Why do most Stags come in garish primary colours?) My aspirations have moved on now but my head still turns at the sight of a really good one.
Keep the details coming please. Thoroughly enjoyable thread.
Honestly? After all of the work;No. Still, at least female company could appreciate it. No, that is a lie. The vibrations were still horrific to the point that it felt like something was going to break on the car!
At this point I almost threw the towel in until a Stag specialist took pity on me. It's not that bad a world sometimes you see. Upon getting it on the ramp the car was jacked up where the father and son outfit soon began looking at the car objectively. They spotted that the gearbox output flange was free to move about back and forth! This certainly had me worried seeing as the gearbox was only recently refurbished. After looking at it myself the bolt was indeed tight on the output but with the flange being loose (no, it was not a lady of the night...) the car went straight back to the people who refurbished the gearbox. A few days later the car was ready to pick up.
However, the vibrations were still there! Godamn this annoying heap! OTOH it was great until 52MPH! It was time to start working through other weaknesses. Despite a renowned engineer from a well known engineering company doing the work there were question marks over various aspects of the conversion. One of which was the questionable gearbox mountings on closer inspection.
A Stag is menat to have its gearbox mounts as per the diagram:
Mine, erm, wasn't like the above! The plastic bushes in the 4 holes of the crossmember were old and past it as well as the cotton reel bushes sitting in a very bodged fashion as shown below:
As a result of the cotton reel bushes being forced into the crossmember the bushes were deformed on removal. Shock horror there! Shall we play sport the difference?
At the same time I bought some new crossmember bushes courtesy of Chris Witor seeing as the old ones were almost non existant:
Another spot the difference photo:
With that taken care of I attempted to improve the mouting of the new cotten reel gearbox mounts:
With all of the above done I decided to look even more at the new parts. As a rather sketchy speeds I had the gear lever removed from the car so that my friend and I could see what the propshaft was doing when on the move. Initially all looked fine. That was until the car was doing 10MPH. It was only slight but the speedo trigger ring was throwing the propshaft about 1/2mm out of balance each way. So as to get the new propshaft balanced I figured that I best remove the trigger ring! This proved quite a challenge! However, it was nothing a puller could not deal with
And it's off!
Off it went to be balanced. Dave Mac soon got back to me however. They said that with the speedo ring in place the propshaft could not be balanced but that otherwise it was OK.
So the cause of the severe vibration? A propshaft mounted speedo ring that was slightly off centre was the main cause, with the prop being slightly out of balance not helping matters. Finally, I could take the car beyond 50MPH and well beyond that!
it also meant the car's chance of having a working speedo would require further thought.
OTOH it allow me to enjoy the car a bit more. So much that I felt compelled to take photos of the car in its working state despite the car being on stilts! It also allowed me to check out other details I had attended to on the car, including the period number plates that were not black and white.
I even managed to take the car out of Warwickshire out on a nice trip to Longbridge!
White Stag, roof down, blasting down the motorways at 70-80MPH. Things can only get better surely?
At this point I almost threw the towel in until a Stag specialist took pity on me. It's not that bad a world sometimes you see. Upon getting it on the ramp the car was jacked up where the father and son outfit soon began looking at the car objectively. They spotted that the gearbox output flange was free to move about back and forth! This certainly had me worried seeing as the gearbox was only recently refurbished. After looking at it myself the bolt was indeed tight on the output but with the flange being loose (no, it was not a lady of the night...) the car went straight back to the people who refurbished the gearbox. A few days later the car was ready to pick up.
However, the vibrations were still there! Godamn this annoying heap! OTOH it was great until 52MPH! It was time to start working through other weaknesses. Despite a renowned engineer from a well known engineering company doing the work there were question marks over various aspects of the conversion. One of which was the questionable gearbox mountings on closer inspection.
A Stag is menat to have its gearbox mounts as per the diagram:
Mine, erm, wasn't like the above! The plastic bushes in the 4 holes of the crossmember were old and past it as well as the cotton reel bushes sitting in a very bodged fashion as shown below:
As a result of the cotton reel bushes being forced into the crossmember the bushes were deformed on removal. Shock horror there! Shall we play sport the difference?
At the same time I bought some new crossmember bushes courtesy of Chris Witor seeing as the old ones were almost non existant:
Another spot the difference photo:
With that taken care of I attempted to improve the mouting of the new cotten reel gearbox mounts:
With all of the above done I decided to look even more at the new parts. As a rather sketchy speeds I had the gear lever removed from the car so that my friend and I could see what the propshaft was doing when on the move. Initially all looked fine. That was until the car was doing 10MPH. It was only slight but the speedo trigger ring was throwing the propshaft about 1/2mm out of balance each way. So as to get the new propshaft balanced I figured that I best remove the trigger ring! This proved quite a challenge! However, it was nothing a puller could not deal with
And it's off!
Off it went to be balanced. Dave Mac soon got back to me however. They said that with the speedo ring in place the propshaft could not be balanced but that otherwise it was OK.
So the cause of the severe vibration? A propshaft mounted speedo ring that was slightly off centre was the main cause, with the prop being slightly out of balance not helping matters. Finally, I could take the car beyond 50MPH and well beyond that!
it also meant the car's chance of having a working speedo would require further thought.
OTOH it allow me to enjoy the car a bit more. So much that I felt compelled to take photos of the car in its working state despite the car being on stilts! It also allowed me to check out other details I had attended to on the car, including the period number plates that were not black and white
.I even managed to take the car out of Warwickshire out on a nice trip to Longbridge!
White Stag, roof down, blasting down the motorways at 70-80MPH. Things can only get better surely?
Edited by SebringMan on Friday 10th June 09:07
With the car now fixed it was time to start enjoying it once more. Stags are all about wind in the hair motoring, the sunshine as well as listening to that ubiquitous burble, right?
Not quite. 2012 was hardly a dry year. And so I ended up buying a sheddy looking hard top. Not even the 'rat look' could be passed off on this occasion! OTOH it did help make my mind up about convertibles ; they are best either with the roof down or with a hard top on. Putting the top on transformed the Stag. From a rattly and frankly noisy soft top that leaked through the fabric it transformed the car. Not only was it watertight but it also massively improved visibility. Parking the Stag would no longer be a chore!
However, like most best plans *Cough* flawed logic *cough* I was covering up the fact that my soft top was not folding that well at all. All of the catches that were meant to be there to stop the frame from bending, something a specialist neglected to mention to me, in addition to the mohair roof's membrane completing failing. Going over a speedbump was fun ; it was like being back in an Alton Towers water ride with the amount of water that roof retained!
That said, there were plenty of other pressing issues with the car. The interior of the car left alot to be desired, despite the soft top being drafty it was draftier than it should have been new seals were ordered for the A-Pillars. I also ended up gathering a few spares which would come in handy later on with the car.
One of the more important items were the interior bits. With the foams in the seats falling to bits I decided to tackle them myself instead of giving them to someone else to do, in true DIY style.
At the same time I decided the Stag was sitting far too high on the 15" wheels. Despite other issues with the car I really should attend to those first, surely? No. Without really thinking about it, some springs were on their way from Chris Wittor:
Surely the madness had to stop! That would have been too easy.
For a few months I had been keeping an eye on tubular exhaust mount prices. When a set came up at a very cheap price I had to buy them. Man, I should consider dating sites like Tinder, Match, or YouPorn maybe:
However, there would be a change in the status quo. Those of you who have read my previous threads probably are surprised at how much work I have done on a driveway, and how the neighbours in leafy Warwickshire can put up with me; I may have let this moment influence my next decision. I decided that with the roof being too much work for me, that I would drop the car off to a specailist to deal with the roof.
Upon getting the car back it certainly had some bodywork done, but not how I expected. From taking the car into them in a dry state the car stunk of damp inside with the carpets full of water. It did not help that the roof was half off the car. What was worse were the random scratches. Car parking dints may be a pain but I was not expecting this:
Yup, my lovely bodywork was no longer quite that lovely. To say I was annoyed was putting things mildly. But, what else could I have done?
Not quite. 2012 was hardly a dry year. And so I ended up buying a sheddy looking hard top. Not even the 'rat look' could be passed off on this occasion! OTOH it did help make my mind up about convertibles ; they are best either with the roof down or with a hard top on. Putting the top on transformed the Stag. From a rattly and frankly noisy soft top that leaked through the fabric it transformed the car. Not only was it watertight but it also massively improved visibility. Parking the Stag would no longer be a chore!
However, like most best plans *Cough* flawed logic *cough* I was covering up the fact that my soft top was not folding that well at all. All of the catches that were meant to be there to stop the frame from bending, something a specialist neglected to mention to me, in addition to the mohair roof's membrane completing failing. Going over a speedbump was fun ; it was like being back in an Alton Towers water ride with the amount of water that roof retained!
That said, there were plenty of other pressing issues with the car. The interior of the car left alot to be desired, despite the soft top being drafty it was draftier than it should have been new seals were ordered for the A-Pillars. I also ended up gathering a few spares which would come in handy later on with the car.
One of the more important items were the interior bits. With the foams in the seats falling to bits I decided to tackle them myself instead of giving them to someone else to do, in true DIY style.
At the same time I decided the Stag was sitting far too high on the 15" wheels. Despite other issues with the car I really should attend to those first, surely? No. Without really thinking about it, some springs were on their way from Chris Wittor:
Surely the madness had to stop! That would have been too easy
.For a few months I had been keeping an eye on tubular exhaust mount prices. When a set came up at a very cheap price I had to buy them. Man, I should consider dating sites like Tinder, Match, or YouPorn maybe:
However, there would be a change in the status quo. Those of you who have read my previous threads probably are surprised at how much work I have done on a driveway, and how the neighbours in leafy Warwickshire can put up with me; I may have let this moment influence my next decision. I decided that with the roof being too much work for me, that I would drop the car off to a specailist to deal with the roof.
Upon getting the car back it certainly had some bodywork done, but not how I expected. From taking the car into them in a dry state the car stunk of damp inside with the carpets full of water. It did not help that the roof was half off the car. What was worse were the random scratches. Car parking dints may be a pain but I was not expecting this:
Yup, my lovely bodywork was no longer quite that lovely. To say I was annoyed was putting things mildly. But, what else could I have done?
Edited by SebringMan on Thursday 9th June 07:44
Good to see another instalment on your Stag saga.
I have to agree about the benefits of having the hard top on, it really does transform it. They are such good looking cars and the hardtop really suits it whereas the soft top is such an ugly thing and as you say visibility with the soft top is awful. For me, the car either has the hard top on or it is a convertible - I can't remember the last time I used the soft top.
I have to agree about the benefits of having the hard top on, it really does transform it. They are such good looking cars and the hardtop really suits it whereas the soft top is such an ugly thing and as you say visibility with the soft top is awful. For me, the car either has the hard top on or it is a convertible - I can't remember the last time I used the soft top.
TR4man said:
Good to see another instalment on your Stag saga.
I have to agree about the benefits of having the hard top on, it really does transform it. They are such good looking cars and the hardtop really suits it whereas the soft top is such an ugly thing and as you say visibility with the soft top is awful. For me, the car either has the hard top on or it is a convertible - I can't remember the last time I used the soft top.
Definitely the case about the hard top regarding the looks. It's a shame they are difficult to store but then again I guess that is why CCs came along ; for me the CCs aren't quite the same.I have to agree about the benefits of having the hard top on, it really does transform it. They are such good looking cars and the hardtop really suits it whereas the soft top is such an ugly thing and as you say visibility with the soft top is awful. For me, the car either has the hard top on or it is a convertible - I can't remember the last time I used the soft top.
J4CKO said:
Got to love a Stag, but they do rust, a chap I know had two, one was a parts car, he jacked it up, lowered it onto axle stands that went through the floor.
IME Stags don't rot that badly. What does cause them to rot is the following:-Bodged repairs, and I would say many Stags probably have this.
-Water leaks, especially around the windscreen seal
Mine probably would have gone through the floor if I had jacked it up initially by the outrigger, and yes, my windscreen leaked like a sieve but I shall get to that part of the chapter another time
.Anyway, where was I? Ah yes, my Stag was at the specialist meant to be getting its roof painted. I however was not in as good a state as the Stag.
I came out of the hospital following an op, unable to walk for around a couple of weeks. Alot of time passed. This involved reading books, relearning how to play the guitar, watching a bit of FakeTaxi, Jeremy Kyle and whatever else you do when you are bored stiff.
After around a month of regaining my strength I decided that I needed to crack on with the Stag. As a result of this I ended up getting a train journey to Fleet. Man their train stations are old!
Within a few hours I was coming back in this:
On paper the car looked great; the receipts accounted for around £5-6k going into the car over 18 months through various specialists. This car was surely going to be hassle free?
We will see
.Edited by SebringMan on Thursday 9th June 17:35
Very much enjoyed reading all of that. I enjoy all the technical stuff about "oily bits". OTOH I didn't quite get what was the cure of the 50mph vibration... Drive shaft fitment/balancing?
Looking forward to reading about your time with the Dolly Sprint (are you going to start a separate thread?) I've heard they were fairly ahead of their time with some of the kit they came fitted with, is that fair to say?
Looking forward to reading about your time with the Dolly Sprint (are you going to start a separate thread?) I've heard they were fairly ahead of their time with some of the kit they came fitted with, is that fair to say?
Have fun 
. My old man had a Dolly Sprint from new RYB864M or very similar which was quite the car back then, but as a spotty teenager who'd been nagging him to get an arched Escort RS1600 (he was a headmaster so image etc) I was always impressed with it , although my mother used to drive it somewhat harder . Bright yellow (maize?) with webasto roof and extra gauges too . Threw it's timing chain a few times , probably mum again . My only proper Triumph nightmare was respraying a TR6 in the early 80's , what a Pandoras box of tin worn that turned out to be . Enjoy the Dolly
. My old man had a Dolly Sprint from new RYB864M or very similar which was quite the car back then, but as a spotty teenager who'd been nagging him to get an arched Escort RS1600 (he was a headmaster so image etc) I was always impressed with it , although my mother used to drive it somewhat harder . Bright yellow (maize?) with webasto roof and extra gauges too . Threw it's timing chain a few times , probably mum again . My only proper Triumph nightmare was respraying a TR6 in the early 80's , what a Pandoras box of tin worn that turned out to be . Enjoy the DollyMy first Car back in 78 was a Herald Convertible followed later by a couple of Vitesse. During the 80's pries went mental for Stag's so they were out of my price bracket as were TR6.
A couple of years ago I indulged my itch to have an MGB roadster I was underwhelmed to say the least.
The itch for a TR6 is almost unbearable but again the prices now are ridiculous so I make do with an XKR.
Maybe I am biased as my Dad worked for Triumph in Liverpool but there is something unique and quirky about them.
A couple of years ago I indulged my itch to have an MGB roadster I was underwhelmed to say the least.
The itch for a TR6 is almost unbearable but again the prices now are ridiculous so I make do with an XKR.
Maybe I am biased as my Dad worked for Triumph in Liverpool but there is something unique and quirky about them.
Good to see you are enjoying the tales of my struggle ; didn't someone write a book about that?
The Dolly Sprint thread I am going to combine into this. In reality I only owned it for a fraction of the time that I owned the Stag for. You do wonder "What If...".
Don't you just love cars with bodged repairs?
-By the best you can afford (I'd say £10k would get you a Stag with searching that will not be a world of pain
-Don't be tempted to buy cheap parts - Yes I know the specialists say they are fine but it pays to do your homework
.
-Enjoy the car and use it!
So where was I? Oh yes, about the Dolly Sprint.
This tale will now sound familiar. Back in 2008 when my mate bough a Sprint the car above was also for sale. My friend went with the other car; a reshelled Sprint.
This car was sold on, where it was finally sold to about the most OCD American I have ever met. He was a lovely guy and his MGB roadster was near immaculate and IMO it was worthy of being show standard. He rebuild this car himself over 15 years.
As I said, the Sprint looked superb overall and if you went off the receipts. It had a £5k resto back in 1998 with the inner wings were repaired, it received new sills, wings and a lick of paint. The Sprint however was not quite the love affair he anticipated. He planned on using it as a daily. Upon buying it for quite a sum back in 2010 he spend some cash on paying MG, Jag and generic classic car specialists to do the weekend jobs and more. This included:
-sorting the front suspension out and then attending to its geometry
-rebuilding the carburetors and setting them up
-fitting electronic injection along with changing most of the ignition system
-dealing with the overheating issues
While these matters were attended to the car had far more done it, again by some specialists including:
-receiving a recored radiator and new coolant hoses
-having a Davis Craig Electric Water Pump (EWP) fitted along with its control box in lieu of the jackshaft driven waterpump (it was bouncing off the jackshaft due to worn gears on the jackshaft
-4 new Yokohama A539 tyres fitted
-Many parts of the car rebushed
-Steering system attended to (track rod ends, gaitors and lower steering column
-Reconditioned differential
-New brakes all round including the calipers and cylinders.
-New exhaust fitted at £800 (yes, the stock stainless items are pricey over the sports systems - I checked this myself later!).
I have probably missed a few things off but that is what I can remember was done to the car. Surely the car should have been perfect?
Far from it. Over its 4k covered over 2 years it had been a recalcitrant car which was literally absorbing a good chunk of the guy's money with the faults not appearing to be fixed. The car went from overheating to constantly staying cool, too cool in fact in addition to it running poorly and generally not being a great experience. To add insult to injury a couple of bits underneath were going a little rusty as well, probably due to water leaks. But I guess if the car is not working right who cares about the small things?
Back in 2012 he decided enough was enough and put the car up with a brutally honest but brief ad basically saying he wanted shot of the car very cheaply. While I threw in a blind bid he called me up immediately asking me to cancel the bid. There was only one thing for me to do ; get a train down to see the car.
Some will recall that I had only been in a hospital 3 weeks before this. Besides this I caught the train and met up with him at Fleet. He let me drive the car. I then parked the car up on the kerb where he got a trolley jack out. Never before have I had this offered with a car. I politely declined and then had a deal with the guy.
In some ways I did feel sorry for him but he was looking forward to jumping into his new BMW 116d and simply enjoying hassle free motoring. Who could blame him after throwing that much at the car.
The car drove home fine but not as quick as it should have been! It was a joy to drive back. It was a good deal on both ends really.
With it back on my drive it was time to attend to the MOT. Without even touching the car I took it in for one. The list was not looking good:
In short:
-The new steering column was not on tight to the upper column
-the reworked suspension had a lovely cut in one of the boots
-The flasher relay had gone on the fritz after 12 months of use
-The floor pan and part of a leg had a hole in them as a result of a bad windscreen leak
-Both front tyres were bald on the inside after only 2,000 miles
-It was running a little rich and not all that great
-Rear handbrake was not great.
Hang on, surely that list must have been a lie with all of that work? Not quite.
It was time for me to get cracking with it.
Robbins said:
Very much enjoyed reading all of that. I enjoy all the technical stuff about "oily bits". OTOH I didn't quite get what was the cure of the 50mph vibration... Drive shaft fitment/balancing?
Looking forward to reading about your time with the Dolly Sprint (are you going to start a separate thread?) I've heard they were fairly ahead of their time with some of the kit they came fitted with, is that fair to say?
The 50MPH vibration was down to a speedo ring mounted onto the propshaft which threw it around 1mm off centre. How the last owner was driving it ; (there was photographic evidence of this) is beyond me. The driveshaft was also slightly out of balance but not massively.Looking forward to reading about your time with the Dolly Sprint (are you going to start a separate thread?) I've heard they were fairly ahead of their time with some of the kit they came fitted with, is that fair to say?
The Dolly Sprint thread I am going to combine into this. In reality I only owned it for a fraction of the time that I owned the Stag for. You do wonder "What If...".
fttm said:
Have fun . My old man had a Dolly Sprint from new RYB864M or very similar which was quite the car back then, but as a spotty teenager who'd been nagging him to get an arched Escort RS1600 (he was a headmaster so image etc) I was always impressed with it , although my mother used to drive it somewhat harder . Bright yellow (maize?) with webasto roof and extra gauges too . Threw it's timing chain a few times , probably mum again . My only proper Triumph nightmare was respraying a TR6 in the early 80's , what a Pandoras box of tin worn that turned out to be . Enjoy the Dolly
It sounds like they enjoyed the car working as much as I did! . My old man had a Dolly Sprint from new RYB864M or very similar which was quite the car back then, but as a spotty teenager who'd been nagging him to get an arched Escort RS1600 (he was a headmaster so image etc) I was always impressed with it , although my mother used to drive it somewhat harder . Bright yellow (maize?) with webasto roof and extra gauges too . Threw it's timing chain a few times , probably mum again . My only proper Triumph nightmare was respraying a TR6 in the early 80's , what a Pandoras box of tin worn that turned out to be . Enjoy the DollyDon't you just love cars with bodged repairs?
Shakermaker said:
Despite your regular tales of woe with your Stag, this isn't doing anything for the little voice in my head that says "Ooh a Stag would be a good idea..."
TBH they are a great idea as long as you adhere to a few simple rules:-By the best you can afford (I'd say £10k would get you a Stag with searching that will not be a world of pain
-Don't be tempted to buy cheap parts - Yes I know the specialists say they are fine but it pays to do your homework
.-Enjoy the car and use it!
So where was I? Oh yes, about the Dolly Sprint.
This tale will now sound familiar. Back in 2008 when my mate bough a Sprint the car above was also for sale. My friend went with the other car; a reshelled Sprint.
This car was sold on, where it was finally sold to about the most OCD American I have ever met. He was a lovely guy and his MGB roadster was near immaculate and IMO it was worthy of being show standard. He rebuild this car himself over 15 years.
As I said, the Sprint looked superb overall and if you went off the receipts. It had a £5k resto back in 1998 with the inner wings were repaired, it received new sills, wings and a lick of paint. The Sprint however was not quite the love affair he anticipated. He planned on using it as a daily. Upon buying it for quite a sum back in 2010 he spend some cash on paying MG, Jag and generic classic car specialists to do the weekend jobs and more. This included:
-sorting the front suspension out and then attending to its geometry
-rebuilding the carburetors and setting them up
-fitting electronic injection along with changing most of the ignition system
-dealing with the overheating issues
While these matters were attended to the car had far more done it, again by some specialists including:
-receiving a recored radiator and new coolant hoses
-having a Davis Craig Electric Water Pump (EWP) fitted along with its control box in lieu of the jackshaft driven waterpump (it was bouncing off the jackshaft due to worn gears on the jackshaft
-4 new Yokohama A539 tyres fitted
-Many parts of the car rebushed
-Steering system attended to (track rod ends, gaitors and lower steering column
-Reconditioned differential
-New brakes all round including the calipers and cylinders.
-New exhaust fitted at £800 (yes, the stock stainless items are pricey over the sports systems - I checked this myself later!).
I have probably missed a few things off but that is what I can remember was done to the car. Surely the car should have been perfect?
Far from it. Over its 4k covered over 2 years it had been a recalcitrant car which was literally absorbing a good chunk of the guy's money with the faults not appearing to be fixed. The car went from overheating to constantly staying cool, too cool in fact in addition to it running poorly and generally not being a great experience. To add insult to injury a couple of bits underneath were going a little rusty as well, probably due to water leaks. But I guess if the car is not working right who cares about the small things?
Back in 2012 he decided enough was enough and put the car up with a brutally honest but brief ad basically saying he wanted shot of the car very cheaply. While I threw in a blind bid he called me up immediately asking me to cancel the bid. There was only one thing for me to do ; get a train down to see the car.
Some will recall that I had only been in a hospital 3 weeks before this. Besides this I caught the train and met up with him at Fleet. He let me drive the car. I then parked the car up on the kerb where he got a trolley jack out. Never before have I had this offered with a car. I politely declined and then had a deal with the guy.
In some ways I did feel sorry for him but he was looking forward to jumping into his new BMW 116d and simply enjoying hassle free motoring. Who could blame him after throwing that much at the car.
The car drove home fine but not as quick as it should have been! It was a joy to drive back. It was a good deal on both ends really.
With it back on my drive it was time to attend to the MOT. Without even touching the car I took it in for one. The list was not looking good:
In short:
-The new steering column was not on tight to the upper column
-the reworked suspension had a lovely cut in one of the boots
-The flasher relay had gone on the fritz after 12 months of use
-The floor pan and part of a leg had a hole in them as a result of a bad windscreen leak
-Both front tyres were bald on the inside after only 2,000 miles
-It was running a little rich and not all that great
-Rear handbrake was not great.
Hang on, surely that list must have been a lie with all of that work? Not quite.
It was time for me to get cracking with it.
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